Confirming of the covenant - what it is

Notrash · May 19, 2015

Dougg;
In answer to your question about the apostles mentioning Dan 9:27 as the everlasting covt.

The dispy/futurist understanding is that some future person will make a 7 yr covt and in the midst of that covt stop the re-sarted sacrifice and oblation.
They miss or do not emphasize the hiphil verb tense which creates a causative action to the information. Thus the kjv rightly says that in the midst of the week he shall CAUSE the stoppage of the sacrifice and oblation. It is only a slight difference but it is a difference that allows for a period of time beteeen the cause of the stoppage and the stoppage itself.

Now, if the apostles could be shown to associate the stoppage of the sacrifices and oblation in 70 AD in connection with and as a result of the establishment of the new covt, then this would support if not proove that they equated the covt of 9:27 as the new covt of Christ

In Heb 7:26-ch 10:38 we see the sacrifice and oblation mentiined 4 times AND their coming ceasing (in 8:13 & 9:18) being caused by and the result of the new covt.

This section serves and read almost as an apostolic encouraging sermon based Dan 9:27 with 10:37 then summarizing by referring again to dan 9:26.

The 40 yr time frame between the cause and the actual stoppage of the sac & oblation can be observed to be in the apostles mnds from earlier in heb 3 & early 4 particularly vs 3:17.

They are to remain loyal to the freedom of the new covt and apart from the sin of reparticipation in the sacrifices and elements of the law as to do so would trample the blood of christ and the mediation of the new covt under their feet

...xy

dfw69 · May 19, 2015

tranquil said:
Nisan is the 1st month, and Tishri is the 7th month. It is just cultural convention for Jews to make the 7th month the start. And the hyper literalists use the Deut 31 passage

10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,

11 When all Israel is come to appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

to say that the end of the 7 years occurs at the Feast of Tabernacles (Tishri 15)

As to the Jubilee years cycle, just think of it like a normal week, Monday through Sunday . For clarity's sake I will say that Sunday is the Sabbath/ day of rest.

So, you work Monday through Saturday, and have the Sabbath day, the 7th day, Sunday off.

Now repeat this "week" cycle for a total of 7 times. At the end of the 7th cycle, you will still have your Sabbath off, the 7th "Sunday" off (this is our 49th year in the Jubilee cycle), but instead of going to work the next day on Monday, you get this day off also (this day is also the 1st day of the next 49 day/ year cycle). This "Monday" of the next cycle is your "50th" year, but has no bearing on changing your "week" - you will be off on Monday and then work for 5 days (instead of the normal 6) and then get Sunday off like usual.

The regular sabbath/ 7th year is about giving the land rest/ no planting. The Jubilee, that extra "Monday" off after the 7th Sabbath is the releasing of debts.

I understand ....so the next jubilant year is 2022?

BABerean2 · May 20, 2015

Dr. Kelly Varner on Daniel chapter 9...

tranquil · May 20, 2015

dfw69 said:
I understand ....so the next jubilant year is 2022?

If the Jewish calendar can be trusted, which I don't trust it (some say it is off 240ish years? or should it be the year 6000 when the "end of the world" happens?) ... but we have to have some sort of framework to understand things, and Satan doesn't have an infinite rabbit hole to play with in terms of fulfilling and imitating the fulfillment of prophecy.

I think 2015-2022 is going to be pretty important. The Pope's Jubilee year starting Dec 8, 2015, is all about "abortion forgiveness". http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-women-abortion-doctors-performed-them.html

this seems to fit Rev 2

18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Jezebel, the unfaithful church, is seducing Christians to commit fornication by saying that abortion is ok.

The Catholic Jubilee year ends Nov 6, 2016 (2 days later is the US election day, imo this president will be an antichrist (1 of the 7 heads of the 7 headed Satan). Right after that, imo is the start of the great tribulation/ Dec. 24, 2016 & Jan 7, 2017 (the 10th of Tevet/ winter Sabbath day of Matt 24).

dfw69 · May 20, 2015

tranquil said:
If the Jewish calendar can be trusted, which I don't trust it (some say it is off 240ish years? or should it be the year 6000 when the "end of the world" happens?) ... but we have to have some sort of framework to understand things, and Satan doesn't have an infinite rabbit hole to play with in terms of fulfilling and imitating the fulfillment of prophecy.

I think 2015-2022 is going to be pretty important. The Pope's Jubilee year starting Dec 8, 2015, is all about "abortion forgiveness". http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-women-abortion-doctors-performed-them.html

this seems to fit Rev 2

18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Jezebel, the unfaithful church, is seducing Christians to commit fornication by saying that abortion is ok.

The Catholic Jubilee year ends Nov 6, 2016 (2 days later is the US election day, imo this president will be an antichrist (1 of the 7 heads of the 7 headed Satan). Right after that, imo is the start of the great tribulation/ Dec. 24, 2016 & Jan 7, 2017 (the 10th of Tevet/ winter Sabbath day of Matt 24).

Yes I to have heard the calendar is off ....

I believe that these are false messianic prophecies for a coming false messianic age....that the government's of the world are seeking to self fulfill the messianic prophecies to usher in the new world order....that new order is a false messiah who will heal the chaos of the world and usher in the false messianic age....he will sit as the son of David ruling from Jerusalem....and rebuild the temple and establish the laws of Moses ..

Notrash · May 20, 2015

Notrash said:
Dougg;
In answer to your question about the apostles mentioning Dan 9:27 as the everlasting covt.

The dispy/futurist understanding is that some future person will make a 7 yr covt and in the midst of that covt stop the re-sarted sacrifice and oblation.
They miss or do not emphasize the hiphil verb tense which creates a causative action to the information. Thus the kjv rightly says that in the midst of the week he shall CAUSE the stoppage of the sacrifice and oblation. It is only a slight difference but it is a difference that allows for a period of time beteeen the cause of the stoppage and the stoppage itself.

Now, if the apostles could be shown to associate the stoppage of the sacrifices and oblation in 70 AD in connection with and as a result of the establishment of the new covt, then this would support if not proove that they equated the covt of 9:27 as the new covt of Christ

In Heb 7:26-ch 10:38 we see the sacrifice and oblation mentiined 4 times AND their coming ceasing (in 8:13 & 9:18) being caused by and the result of the new covt.

This section serves and read almost as an apostolic encouraging sermon based Dan 9:27 with 10:37 then summarizing by referring again to dan 9:26.

The 40 yr time frame between the cause and the actual stoppage of the sac & oblation can be observed to be in the apostles mnds from earlier in heb 3 & early 4 particularly vs 3:17.

Add heb 10:5-9 to 8:13 & 10:18 as verses which talk of the removal of the sacrifice & offering because of the new covt.

That the new covt includes his new words and teachings and is the covt confirmed in Dan 9:27 which evvects the end of the sacrifice & oblation is seen in Heb 1:1,2 & especially 2:3,4 and also 10:5 (when he came).

In rom 8:8 it says that he CONFIRMS the promises to the circumcision (Daniel 9:24's "thy people") that were made to the fathers and that applied to all natiins about the righteousness by faith (john 5 & 6, esp 6:28,29; rom 3 & 4, esp 3:27-31 & 1 john 3:23,24) apart from the law!!!!

Heb 6:16,17 is also in play.

Summary: By and because of the perfection and goodness of the ways and means of new covt, the ways and means of the old were displaced and ready to be dissolved. Heb 3:3.

The entire book of Heb seems to be an exposition and first century applicating of Dan 9:26,26.

..

...xy[/QUOTE]

parousia70 · May 20, 2015

Straightshot said:
Why would anyone consider the writings to be inspired by the Lord? .... only the preterist does this ....

Says the Futurist who believes the writings in the daily newspaper are inspired texts to be used to interpret scripture....

Is it time to laugh now SS?

Douggg · May 20, 2015

Notrash said:
Add heb 10:5-9 to 8:13 & 10:18 as verses which talk of the removal of the sacrifice & offering because of the new covt.

That the new covt includes his new words and teachings and is the covt confirmed in Dan 9:27 which evvects the end of the sacrifice & oblation is seen in Heb 1:1,2 & especially 2:3,4 and also 10:5 (when he came).

In rom 8:8 it says that he CONFIRMS the promises to the circumcision (Daniel 9:24's "thy people") that were made to the fathers and that applied to all natiins about the righteousness by faith (john 5 & 6, esp 6:28,29; rom 3 & 4, esp 3:27-31 & 1 john 3:23,24) apart from the law!!!!

Heb 6:16,17 is also in play.

Summary: By and because of the perfection and goodness of the ways and means of new covt, the ways and means of the old were displaced and ready to be dissolved. Heb 3:3.

The entire book of Heb seems to be an exposition and first century applicating of Dan 9:26,26.

...xy

(please do a copy and paste of Romans 8:8, I think you meant some other verse maybe)

What is missing is the apostles saying any of that pertains to the prophecy in Daniel 9:27. And that there is no mention of for 7 years by the apostles. There is no mention of a 3 1/2 year period by the apostles. And that the stoppage of the daily sacrifice is in the middle of the 7 years. And no mention of abominations, which is an key element of the second half of that 7 years.

Now if you go to Revelation 13, the false prophet of the beast "causes" all to worship the image of the beast. The image of the beast is the abomination of desolation.
And it is with 42 months left in the seven years.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

And if you go to Daniel 8, the little horn will cause the the daily sacrifice to be stopped by transgression. It will be a transgression of the Mt Sinai covenant when he goes into the temple, sits, and claims to be God - 2thessaloians 2:4.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Notrash · May 20, 2015

Douggg said:
(please do a copy and paste of Romans 8:8, I think you meant some other verse maybe)

What is missing is the apostles saying any of that pertains to the prophecy in Daniel 9:27. And that there is no mention of for 7 years by the apostles. There is no mention of a 3 1/2 year period by the apostles. And that the stoppage of the daily sacrifice is in the middle of the 7 years. And no mention of abominations, which is an key element of the second half of that 7 years.

Now if you go to Revelation 13, the false prophet of the beast "causes" all to worship the image of the beast. The image of the beast is the abomination of desolation.
And it is with 42 months left in the seven years.

You are tight about Rom 8:8. Thank you. Rom 15:8 is what was intended.

Though the details and referrals were directly missing, if this belief was common understanding and there was no other teaching concerning a interpretatiin of another meaning, they would not have had to specify the details as they were all still living in the time of their being fulfilled experientially. The idea of dan 9:27 applying to an anti-christ figure didn't come until Irenaus or later, if indeed ireneaus wrote in this understanding. By his time the anti-immanuel (bar kochbah) had already been fulfilled.

That the apostles were also responsible to confirm the civt of the indwelling (deut 30: IJer 31 & Ez 36) of God and his new law is seen in Heb 2:3.

Heb (and other letters) are not written so much to a future audienc such as ouselves in the same way that the prophecies of the OT were written to be understood by a futue (first century) people; but the were written as encouragement and support of the people experiencing the fulfillments (and subsequent similar peoples.

Again, you can proove me wrong by quoting the grammatical textbook and law of grammer which declares that a pronoun refers to its next nearest possible antecedent.

"The prince" isn't even a rightful potentially possible antecedent as he is not introduces as a subject for which the antecedent would apply.

The prince (Titus) did not destroy the temple but wished to preserve it as a victory marker The soldiers(the people of the prince) threw a firebrand into the temple after which it caught fire and was then later leveled.

To continue the topic, vs 27 would have to begin with And "THEY" shall cinfirm the civt with many for one week.

..

Notrash · May 20, 2015

Douggg said:
(please do a copy and paste of Romans 8:8, I think you meant some other verse maybe)

What is missing is the apostles saying any of that pertains to the prophecy in Daniel 9:27. And that there is no mention of for 7 years by the apostles. There is no mention of a 3 1/2 year period by the apostles. And that the stoppage of the daily sacrifice is in the middle of the 7 years. And no mention of abominations, which is an key element of the second half of that 7 years.

Now if you go to Revelation 13, the false prophet of the beast "causes" all to worship the image of the beast. The image of the beast is the abomination of desolation.
And it is with 42 months left in the seven years.

You are tight about Rom 8:8. Thank you. Rom 15:8 is what was intended.

Though the details and referrals were directly missing, if this belief was common understanding and there was no other teaching concerning a interpretatiin of another meaning, they would not have had to specify the details as they were all still living in the time of their being fulfilled experientially. The idea of dan 9:27 applying to an anti-christ figure didn't come until Irenaus or later, if indeed ireneaus wrote in this understanding. By his time the anti-immanuel (bar kochbah) had already been fulfilled.

That the apostles were also responsible to confirm the civt of the indwelling (deut 30: IJer 31 & Ez 36) of God and his new law is seen in Heb 2:3.

Heb (and other letters) are not written so much to a future audienc such as ouselves in the same way that the prophecies of the OT were written to be understood by a futue (first century) people; but the were written as encouragement and support of the people experiencing the fulfillments (and subsequent similar peoples.

Again, you can proove me wrong by quoting the grammatical textbook and law of grammer which declares that a pronoun refers to its next nearest possible antecedent.

"The prince" isn't even a rightful potentially possible antecedent as he is not introduces as a subject for which the antecedent would apply.

The prince (Titus) did not destroy the temple but wished to preserve it as a victory marker The soldiers(the people of the prince) threw a firebrand into the temple after which it caught fire and was then later leveled.

To continue the topic, vs 27 would have to begin with And "THEY" shall cinfirm the civt with many for one week.

..

Douggg · May 20, 2015

Notrash said:
Again, you can proove me wrong by quoting the grammatical textbook and law of grammer which declares that a pronoun refers to its next nearest possible antecedent.

"The prince" isn't even a rightful potentially possible antecedent as he is not introduces as a subject for which the antecedent would apply.

I don't know why you presume you are gramatically correct; you are gramatically wrong. 9:26 is a compound sentence. Separated by the conjunction "and". It is basically three sentences combined into one.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: (a colon represents a hard separation)

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;(a semicolon represents a soft separation)

and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he [the prince who shall come] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he [the prince who shall come] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The prince (Titus) did not destroy the temple but wished to preserve it as a victory marker The soldiers(the people of the prince) threw a firebrand into the temple after which it caught fire and was then later leveled.

Who cares about Titus. He is not the person in question.

To continue the topic, vs 27 would have to begin with And "THEY" shall cinfirm the civt with many for one week.

It does not say "they" because the person who confirms the covenant "for 7 years" is the prince who shall come" ..... the "he".

..[/QUOTE]

tranquil · May 21, 2015

Douggg said:
And if you go to Daniel 8, the little horn will cause the the daily sacrifice to be stopped by transgression. It will be a transgression of the Mt Sinai covenant when he goes into the temple, sits, and claims to be God - 2thessaloians 2:4.

This is exactly the right point, mostly. There are 3 categories in Deut 28-32: "Israel", apostate "Israel", and the enemies of "Israel".

In discussing the curses upon apostate "Israel", Deut 28 says

36 The Lord shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee,
unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.

63 And it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.

64 And the Lord shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the Lord shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind: 66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:
67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.

Apostate "Israel" appoints a king (the 10 kings / 10 horns of Dan 7's 4th beast) and is forced to worship other gods. (that's why the beast has a blasphemous name in Rev 13, it is apostate Israel). The "nation" of "Israel" is attacked and the people are scattered, then they are forced to worship the false gods in the foreign lands they are scattered to. The "plucked off the land" verse 63, seems to relate to Matt 24's "one is taken, the other left" passage.

The "transgression" is their apostasy. Because of their apostasy, they get God's wrath in the form of the King of the North placing the abomination of desolation in their temple - In a literal temple, in their bodies, in their capitol buildings (= laws that give spiritual freedom)

the abomination of desolation is preventing bad worship/ apostate worship

When apostate "Israel" repents, God will destroy the enemies of "Israel". When the apostate nation of Israel repents, God will destroy ... Iran? When apostate Christianity repents, God will destroy...? When apostate US repents, God will destroy... ?

Deut 32
15“But Jeshurun grew fat, and kicked;
you grew fat, stout, and sleek;
then he forsook God who made him
and scoffed at the Rock of his salvation.
16They stirred him to jealousy with strange gods;
with abominations they provoked him to anger.
17They sacrificed to demons that were no gods,
to gods they had never known,
to new gods that had come recently,
whom your fathers had never dreaded.
18You were unmindful of the Rock that boree you,
and you forgot the God who gave you birth.

19“The Lord saw it and spurned them,
because of the provocation of his sons and his daughters.
20And he said, ‘I will hide my face from them;
I will see what their end will be,
for they are a perverse generation,
children in whom is no faithfulness.
21They have made me jealous with what is no god;
they have provoked me to anger with their idols.
So I will make them jealous with those who are no people;
I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

22For a fire is kindled by my anger,
and it burns to the depths of Sheol,
devours the earth and its increase,
and sets on fire the foundations of the mountains.

[relates to Trumpet 1, hail and fire setting the world on fire

23“‘And I will heap disasters upon them;
I will spend my arrows on them;
24they shall be wasted with hunger,
and devoured by plague
and poisonous pestilence;
I will send the teeth of beasts against them,
with the venom of things that crawl in the dust.

"those who are no people" = terrorists?
"a foolish nation" = North Korea?

dfw69 · May 21, 2015

parousia70 said:
Says the Futurist who believes the writings in the daily newspaper are inspired texts to be used to interpret scripture....

Is it time to laugh now SS?

lol....awe man...that's messed up.... you going to hell for that one Parousia...no mercy

Douggg · May 21, 2015

tranquil said:
Apostate "Israel" appoints a king (the 10 kings / 10 horns of Dan 7's 4th beast) and is forced to worship other gods. (that's why the beast has a blasphemous name in Rev 13, it is apostate Israel)

Here is the text,
13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

It is the heads on the beast that have the name of blashphemy. I will explain (or you could go to the bottom line of this post).

The seven heads are the same persons in all three chapters, 17,12,13. But each of those three chapters represent a different point in time.

At the time of John (completion of the 7 kings unfulfilled) Revelation 17 (no crowns)

Julius Caesar
Augustus Caesar
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius
Nero
Future king #7

At the time right before the 7 years (completion of the 7 kings Fulfilled) the heads have their crowns. Revelation 12 (crowns)

Julius Caesar
Augustus Caesar
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius
Nero
Little horn - king #7 - has come to power

At the time right before the last 42 months (the 7 kings prophecy ends, with the death of the little horn). Revelation 13 (no crowns)

Julius Caesar
Augustus Caesar
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius
Nero
Little horn - king#7 - killed

13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The name of blasphemy - is "god", each of the Caesars considered themselves "gods". It could be said that the name of blasphemy is Caesar, if one wanted to consider it that way. The heads are kings of the Julio-Claudian clan.

Notrash · May 21, 2015

Except Daniel himself dtates that the curse of the law of moses was speaking of the babylonian captivity in which he was in exile.

He mentiins this twice in ch 9

dfw69 said:
lol....awe man...that's messed up.... you going to hell for that one Parousia...no mercy

Notrash · May 21, 2015

Douggg said:
I don't know why you presume you are gramatically correct; you are gramatically wrong. 9:26 is a compound sentence. Separated by the conjunction "and". It is basically three sentences combined into one.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: (a colon represents a hard separation)

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;(a semicolon represents a soft separation)

and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he [the prince who shall come] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he [the prince who shall come] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Who cares about Titus. He is not the person in question.
It does not say "they" because the person who confirms the covenant "for 7 years" is the prince who shall come" ..... the "he".

..

[/QUOTE]
Thanks for pointing out the semicolon. It cooresponds with the gap between the cause of the stoppage of the sacrifice and the actual stopage of the sacrifice as also represented in vs 27.

You alledge that the prince is not referring to Titus since it doesn't fit your scenarion of continued gloom $ doom; but the historical desolation of the sanctuary and city (like a flood) was fulfilled precisely in this manner; by the people of the leader who was a son of the Ceasar; but not directly by the prince himself.

So, i'll give you another chance to fi.d that often referred to law of grammer stating that a pronoun refers to its next previous possible antecedent.

Please quote the grammatical law and the textbook from which it came.

Otherwise please consider that the interpretatiin of the prince as the "he" is akin to talking in slang or chopped up gruntal language as if this would be a runon sentence.

This is rather recorded in the excellent form of Hebrew poetry (see the nkjv) which instructs the subject matter of the verses to OVERLAP.

He cannot be the prince because the prince is the object of a prepositiinal phrase clarifying "the people". The people are not a possible antecedent for the pronoun "he" since the singularity/plurality factor do not match.

So the informatiin about the semi-colon actually supports the gap between the cause of the happening and the happening itself. Thank you.

So, which textbook will you be referring to, so I can look it up myself.

...

Notrash · May 21, 2015

Since Dan affirms deut 28:15ff to apply to the captivity of Babylon, then the call to mind of the curse and the return from Babylon is what is prophecied in deut 30:1-4 which rememberence and confessiin Daniel fulfills WHILE IN THAT captivity as recorded in Dan 9.

Those who are not a people is explained by Paul in Rom 10:19 to refer to the gentiles and mixed israelites of the northern tribes who recueved and obeyed the gospel. They were cobsidered NOT a people (Hosea 1 also) but their fullness of joy, peace & God would make some (part) of the initially unbelieving israelites "jealous" unto faith in and adherance to Christ. The "terrorists" would not be thought of as a group to make Israel jealous as thats what your alledging.

Deut 30:6-19 is the 'a covenant' of Daniel 9 which creates the three peopled scenario of deut 32. Israel meaniþg followers of the everlasting covt of Christ previously ratified in jacob/Israel and which pertain to ALL the sons of Adam; Jeshurun as adherants to the rabbis of first century judea and their false hopes and prophets at the time of the new covt (deut 18:15-19) and "the enemy" which is jeshuruns enemy; from their perspective, the romans. "Mine enemies were those groups whuch continued to hound and persecute the followers of good and freedom of life in Christ and his new way.

Deut 32:42 (nkjv) thus foretells the God/Christ exacting vengeance on the jews (see leviticus 26 also) through the leaders of rome such as Titus. This is similar to how he used Babylon to judge Israel temporarily, but now would use rome to bring its latter days and latter end as mentiined in deut 31:29 & 32:20,29.

tranquil said:
This is exactly the right point, mostly. There are 3 categories in Deut 28-32: "Israel", apostate "Israel", and the enemies of "Israel".

In discussing the curses upon apostate "Israel", Deut 28 says

36 The Lord shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee,
unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.

63 And it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.

64 And the Lord shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the Lord shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind: 66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:
67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.

Apostate "Israel" appoints a king (the 10 kings / 10 horns of Dan 7's 4th beast) and is forced to worship other gods. (that's why the beast has a blasphemous name in Rev 13, it is apostate Israel). The "nation" of "Israel" is attacked and the people are scattered, then they are forced to worship the false gods in the foreign lands they are scattered to. The "plucked off the land" verse 63, seems to relate to Matt 24's "one is taken, the other left" passage.

The "transgression" is their apostasy. Because of their apostasy, they get God's wrath in the form of the King of the North placing the abomination of desolation in their temple - In a literal temple, in their bodies, in their capitol buildings (= laws that give spiritual freedom)

the abomination of desolation is preventing bad worship/ apostate worship

When apostate "Israel" repents, God will destroy the enemies of "Israel". When the apostate nation of Israel repents, God will destroy ... Iran? When apostate Christianity repents, God will destroy...? When apostate US repents, God will destroy... ?

Deut 32
15“But Jeshurun grew fat, and kicked;
you grew fat, stout, and sleek;
then he forsook God who made him
and scoffed at the Rock of his salvation.
16They stirred him to jealousy with strange gods;
with abominations they provoked him to anger.
17They sacrificed to demons that were no gods,
to gods they had never known,
to new gods that had come recently,
whom your fathers had never dreaded.
18You were unmindful of the Rock that boree you,
and you forgot the God who gave you birth.

19“The Lord saw it and spurned them,
because of the provocation of his sons and his daughters.
20And he said, ‘I will hide my face from them;
I will see what their end will be,
for they are a perverse generation,
children in whom is no faithfulness.
21They have made me jealous with what is no god;
they have provoked me to anger with their idols.
So I will make them jealous with those who are no people;
I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

22For a fire is kindled by my anger,
and it burns to the depths of Sheol,
devours the earth and its increase,
and sets on fire the foundations of the mountains.

[relates to Trumpet 1, hail and fire setting the world on fire
23“‘And I will heap disasters upon them;
I will spend my arrows on them;
24they shall be wasted with hunger,
and devoured by plague
and poisonous pestilence;
I will send the teeth of beasts against them,
with the venom of things that crawl in the dust.
"those who are no people" = terrorists?
"a foolish nation" = North Korea?

Straightshot · May 21, 2015

My comment

The other prince was not the Roman Titus, and the people of other prince were not the Romans .... the other prince is the future little horn of Daniel's visions yet to come

The 70th week is still pending and did not consummate in the first century

Also, know that there are two princes in the vision [Daniel 9:26-27]

The Lord [the Messiah Prince] who will confirm the covenant that He has with His nation of Israel [the "many"] .... and the other prince [the little horn] who will come to desecrate; both actions still pending

Verse 9:27 is a repeating of 9:26

The common error is to attempt to apply all or a part of the future 70th week to the first century and to include the NT church .... the NT church is not in Daniel's vision

Daniel did not see the day of Pentecost

Notrash · May 21, 2015

Or; a common error is to apply the fulfilled 70th week to some distant future scenario by inserting a gap between wk 69 & 70.

You say youself that they overlapp, but can you not see that causing the sacrifice and offering to cease by fulfilling its foretypes (in vs 27) is the same as veing cut off (sometime ) after wk 69?

The telling of his being cut off is part of the preliminary description of tge occurrancees of the 70 weeks in vs 24/25. The vs 27 then adds overlapping detail which is the common occurrance and purpose of hebrew poetry.

Straightshot · May 21, 2015

"Or; a common error is to apply the fulfilled 70th week to some distant future scenario by inserting a gap between"

No, this is not a common view .... few see this truth .... and this is where the rendering of the prophetic scriptures by those who miss it goes off road

And why there are so many different and flawed exegetical renderings among professing Christianity .... this condition has produced more heretical and apostate dogmas than any other misfire made

You show me just one defined significant event of recorded human history over the last 2000 years that appears in any prophetic vision .... you cannot do it

.... and there is a reason why ..... the prophets are all slient

Confirming of the covenant - what it is

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