Creationism

yec_12 · Feb 24, 2003

I was just wondering if anyone knows a lot abot the bible making reference to modern day technology and communication if so post what you know please.

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P.S  I am new to this forum and I was just wondering if any creationists or anyone wanting to talk about creationism could send me some messages.

Thanks

JohnR7 · Feb 25, 2003

Today at 12:42 AM yec_12 said this in Post #1

I was just wondering if anyone knows a lot abot the bible making reference to modern day technology and communication if so post what you know please. <IMG onmouseover="this.style.cursor='hand';" style="CURSOR: hand" onclick="smilie('');" alt=wink src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" border=0> 

The most popular passage is the one in Daniel:

Daniel 12:4
    "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."

 

fragmentsofdreams · Feb 25, 2003

Today at 12:03 AM JohnR7 said this in Post #2 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=674449#post674449)

The most popular passage is the one in Daniel:

Daniel 12:4
    "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."

 

Knowledge has been increasing since Daniel spoke these words 2500+(?) years ago.

budoka · Feb 25, 2003

Hi yec_12, welcome to the forums. I'm new to this particular debate myself. Here in the UK you don't even hear the word 'creationism', even religious people take it for granted that the scientific version of natural history is correct. Saying that the Earth was made in 6 days would be like saying (with a straight face) that the moon is made of cheese. People would just nod and smile politely, then burst into a fit of giggles once you'd walked away.

Do you think Satan is deceiving us with all the masses of evidence that points away from the Biblical version of events? Or is Genesis maybe just another parable?

Arikay · Feb 25, 2003

Of course you can then wonder, if god made everything in the universe, then god himself is leading us away from a literal translation of the bible.

Micaiah · Feb 25, 2003

G'day and welcome to this forum YEC 12.

As you will see there are a number of people who post on this forum who are antagonistic toward the Scriptural account of Creation given in Genesis. They come from within and outside the Christian camp. Their arguments sound impressive but clearly are contrary to the plain teaching of Scripture and the ever growing evidence that contradicts their position or is consistent with Scripture.

Apparently many in the UK prefer to live in the fantasy world of evolution and find the notion that everything somehow came from nothing or some simple cells rather than accept the obvious conclusion that the complex and wonderful life we see around us is God's handiwork. We're the ones entitled to scoff. Bible believing Christians reject the notion that somehow God couldn't 'get it right the first time' and so used evolution over millions of years. This shows a deficient concept of the God of the universe.

My apologies to those from the UK who also reject evolution.

Arikay · Feb 25, 2003

Micaiah: Please show us this "evidence." Many people have asked, and creationists haveyet to produce real evidence that disprove evolution, let alone prove creationism.

budoka · Feb 25, 2003

The impression I get from British Christians is that they believe in God and science; it doesn't seem to threaten their faith to believe that a higher power directs real forces like evolution.

tof · Feb 25, 2003

Today at 12:58 PM budoka said this in Post #8 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=674656#post674656)

The impression I get from British Christians is that they believe in God and science; it doesn't seem to threaten their faith to believe that a higher power directs real forces like evolution.

Budoka, same here about french christians.
Christians often tell me that science's discoveries make them feel closer to God, through a better understanding of creation.

Aceldama · Feb 25, 2003

Today at 11:58 AM budoka said this in Post #8

The impression I get from British Christians is that they believe in God and science; it doesn't seem to threaten their faith to believe that a higher power directs real forces like evolution.

I agree, Christians over here are far more down to Earth than the American ones. The only creationism debate I have encountered was with an IT teacher at my college. He had no trouble accepting microevolution but did not believe we evolved from ape-like creatures or that microevolution was part of the ToE. He also says he has a degree in computer science, so he can debunk evolution  :scratch:

.

Other than that debate I had (which I can't wait to continue), I have met no other British christian that denies evolution.

Pete Harcoff · Feb 25, 2003

Today at 05:47 AM Micaiah said this in Post #6 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=674596#post674596)

G'day and welcome to this forum YEC 12.

As you will see there are a number of people who post on this forum who are antagonistic toward the Scriptural account of Creation given in Genesis. They come from within and outside the Christian camp. Their arguments sound impressive but clearly are contrary to the plain teaching of Scripture and the ever growing evidence that contradicts their position or is consistent with Scripture.

Growing evidence? Where?

budoka · Feb 25, 2003

What I want to know is, if Genesis is literally accurate, why has God created SO MUCH false evidence to contradict it? Geological, astronomical, biological ... Were the founders of all these separate fields atheists with ulterior motives? Or is it some elaborate ploy by Satan? Is it like transubstantiation / consubstantiation? We should ignore reality when it contradicts Scripture?

Gooch's dad · Feb 25, 2003

Micaiah, we've asked you again and again to present your evidence. You claim there is a 'growing body of evidence' supporting young earth creationism. Where is it?

More to the point, there are several threads in this section presenting evidence that simply cannot be explained by YEC'ers. That riverbed that is 1600 feet underneath sedimentary layers is just one example. The meanderings and unconformities of the Grand Canyon are another.

The case is clear. The earth is ancient, and the idea that it is less than 10,000 years old has been falsified for 200 years.

Mechanical Bliss · Feb 25, 2003

Today at 05:47 AM Micaiah said this in Post #6

Their arguments sound impressive but clearly are contrary to the plain teaching of Scripture and the ever growing evidence that contradicts their position or is consistent with Scripture. 

My guess is you say arguments sound impressive because you don't understand them, not because you have the knowledge to counter them as has been shown in this forum. It appears as though you've been neglecting responses to your claims and questions in the YEC falsification threads.

It appears that because you don't understand the arguments and because they falsify your religious beliefs, they must be false. That's not a rational position to take.

There are several threads that show how your YEC model is false no matter how much you want to believe it's true, and you have avoided them. If there is such "ever growing evidence" for your case, then why hasn't mainstream geology been toppled by your religious zealots already? There are plenty of evidences falsifying your position and plenty of opportunities for you to respond (however you also have yet to use evidence relavent to the situations discussed):

1. The formation of the Grand Canyon and features that exist therein.

2. The formation and dating of the Emperor Seamount/Hawaiian Island chains.

3. The Green River lacustrine varves in Wyoming.

4. Plate tectonics itself/seafloor spreading.

5. A buried river bed.

Those are the recent pieces of evidence brought up in this forum I can think of that clearly show that your YEC model is incorrect...unless of course, if your God exists, he is a deceptive being indicating that all evidence in "his creation" points toward a much older earth than Bishop Ussher calculated, and you seem to cling onto that belief although the notion was rejected by science about two centuries ago.

JohnR7 · Feb 25, 2003

Today at 09:46 AM budoka said this in Post #12

What I want to know is, if Genesis is literally accurate, why has God created SO MUCH false evidence to contradict it? Geological, astronomical, biological ...

I thought you were smarter than this. The evidence is not false and the evidence does not contradict Genesis. Man's interpertation of Genesis may contradict mans interpertation of the evidence. But this just shows that man is finite and limited in his understanding and knowledge.

It also shows that God is infinite and far beyond man's ability to fully comprehend all that He is.

JohnR7 · Feb 25, 2003

Today at 10:23 AM Gooch's dad said this in Post #13 The case is clear. The earth is ancient, and the idea that it is less than 10,000 years old has been falsified for 200 years.

Did you ever hear of Einstein? Have you ever heard of the Hubble space telescope? The earth can be ancient AND 10,000 years old at the same time. The Hubble telescope has photos of a very young universe. They just took those photos.

The best place to begin a study would be with Dr. Gerald Schroeder. Gerald Schroeder earned his BSc, MSc and PhD at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. With doctorates in Nuclear Physics and Oceanography from MIT, combined with high level research-work in Chemistry and earth/planetary sciences.

If Dr. Schroeder is to advanced for you to understand, then give Dr. Dino a try. His stuff is no wear near as accurate, but he gears what he teaches for a high school audience.

notto · Feb 25, 2003

Today at 06:19 PM JohnR7 said this in Post #16 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=675081#post675081)

Did you ever hear of Einstein? Have you ever heard of the Hubble space telescope? The earth can be ancient AND 10,000 years old at the same time. The Hubble telescope has photos of a very young universe. They just took those photos.
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You are misunderstanding what the telescope pictures show. The light that was captured to get those photographs is much older that 10,000 years old (that is why it is a picture of a "young" universe, the light has been traveling that long to reach us). When you take a picture, you are taking a picture by collecting light that has traveled to reach the camera. Because of the constant speed of light, and the distance to the area they are looking at, astronomers know that the light has traveled several million years to get here. The objects in those pictures of the young universe would look much different today if you were actually there to see them.

Also, there are lots and lots of falsifications for a young earth right here that are not affected in any conciderable way by reletavistic phenomena.

JohnR7 · Feb 25, 2003

Today at 01:15 AM fragmentsofdreams said this in Post #3

Knowledge has been increasing since Daniel spoke these words 2500+(?) years ago.

You would not know it from some of the people around here.

JohnR7 · Feb 25, 2003

Today at 05:27 AM budoka said this in Post #4
Saying that the Earth was made in 6 days would be like saying (with a straight face) that the moon is made of cheese. People would just nod and smile politely, then burst into a fit of giggles once you'd walked away. 

Because it is to advanced for the average person to understand. They can not grasp the concept of how 6 days and 14 or 15 billion years can pass at the same time. It was no problem for Einstein to grasp, he even believed that 15 billion years and 0 time could pass at the exact same time. Depending on when and where you measure time & if you measure matter or energy (light). As John the Beloved said 2000 years ago, God is light and in Him is no darkness. The light shined into the darkness of the world, and they did not comprehend it.

If people do not comprehend God, then we are told that they are walking in darkness. So why are they in darkness? Because their work or deeds are evil and they do not what the light of the truth to expose that.

John 3:20-21
    For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. [21] But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

 

Gooch's dad · Feb 25, 2003

john, I have a BS in physics and an MS in quantum electronics. Those physics explanations of Schroeder's are nonsense. There is no explanation that can make the earth both 4.5 billion years of age and 6,000 years, at the same time.

The earth is ancient, period. If you can't present explanations for the evidence we've presented, then just admit it.

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