Open Heart
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Mary's virginity
- Thread starter Daughter of Ararat
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Lulav
Y'shua is His Name
Exactly. even Revelation explains that there is only room for two on the Throne, G-d and the Lamb. Doesn't even mention Mary. If you even look at the dimensions of the Ark you will see it is not like an earthly throne for one, but rather will 'seat' two.
Mary I see like Esther, right time right place, right blood line. She was special because she was chosen but she wasn't chosen because she was special.
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Open Heart
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- Jul 2, 2005
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Great question. I say "no particular role at all". Celebrate God's work in her and see her as a believer who now has her crown in Heaven like we are all promised.
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Mary is more like a Queen Mother, not a Queen. But there is a role for Queen Mothers in scripture. Don't know how that would apply for the departed though.
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Open Heart
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Oh puhleeze. (Rolls eyes) The nonsense in the thread astounds me. You guys complain about what Catholics, Anglicans, and Orthodox teach, but the things you say have nothing to do with what we actually teach.
BTW I have NO problems with genuine disagreements. GENUINE disagreements. You know, disagreements with something I actually believe.
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pat34lee
Messianic
Here is a Catholic site on the four dogmas of Mary.
The Four Marian Dogmas :: Catholic News Agency
Aside from the big four, there are other dogmas, including Mary as co-redemtrix, mother of all Christians, Mediatrix and Queen of Heaven. All four are totally unscriptural for making her equal to God when she was no more and no less than anyone else who served him.
Roman Catholic Mariology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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It's the only logical conclusion, no? The son must have a father, and if(as some claim) Gd was his father and Mary the mother then the only conclusion is what?
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Open Heart
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These are correctly put as positions of the Catholic Church (except the part of them being unscriptural or making her equal to God). Anyone has problems with these, we have a legitimate difference, and I'm FINE with it. If you want to discuss any of these with me, come to One Bread One Body and we'll go for it.
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Lulav
Y'shua is His Name
If you believe in the correct translation of Isaiah 7:14 meaning a young woman, which Miriam seems to have been and read Luke with that in mind.......
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Now here it is again annotated.
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon (epi=to) thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow (episkiazó= see below) thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called (future tense) the Son of God.
Now does this mean that the Holy Spirit impregnated her? Or does it mean that she was set apart (what holy means) for this?
Elizabeth, John's mother was also visited by an angel (Zackarias was) the spirit within that babe was set apart too.
****episkiazó =translated overshadowed, this is used in other places
At the transfiguration
In Luke, Matthew : And as these were leaving Him, Peter said to Jesus, "Master, it is good for us to be here; let us make three tabernacles: one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah "-- not realizing what he was saying. 34 While he was saying this, a cloud formed and began to overshadow them; and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.
In Acts 5 As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peters shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by.
Psalm 2
I will declare the decree: the L-RD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Paul wrote to the Romans and prefaced it with:
Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,
Luke 1 introduction:
Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David;
It was Joseph who was of the house of David, not Mary.
Luke 2 And everyone was on his way to register for the census, each to his own city. 4 Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David, 5 in order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.
The writer of Hebrews 1 wrote
For to which of the angels did God ever say,You are my Son;
today I have become your Father ?
Or again,
I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Now here it is again annotated.
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon (epi=to) thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow (episkiazó= see below) thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called (future tense) the Son of God.
Now does this mean that the Holy Spirit impregnated her? Or does it mean that she was set apart (what holy means) for this?
Elizabeth, John's mother was also visited by an angel (Zackarias was) the spirit within that babe was set apart too.
****episkiazó =translated overshadowed, this is used in other places
At the transfiguration
In Luke, Matthew : And as these were leaving Him, Peter said to Jesus, "Master, it is good for us to be here; let us make three tabernacles: one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah "-- not realizing what he was saying. 34 While he was saying this, a cloud formed and began to overshadow them; and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.
In Acts 5 As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peters shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by.
Psalm 2
I will declare the decree: the L-RD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Paul wrote to the Romans and prefaced it with:
Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,
Luke 1 introduction:
Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David;
It was Joseph who was of the house of David, not Mary.
Luke 2 And everyone was on his way to register for the census, each to his own city. 4 Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David, 5 in order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.
The writer of Hebrews 1 wrote
For to which of the angels did God ever say,You are my Son;
today I have become your Father ?
Or again,
I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son
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I would like to hear some commentary, if you have some, on the Jewish tradition mentioned in the article I posted at the beginning of this thread. I love the discussion about other verses and such, but I'm curious about the relationship dynamics in the 1st century as discussed here and the implications that the openness might offer toward using other verses to prove or disprove the type of family relationships that occurred.
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Open Heart
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Did you think that "Orthodox" referred to Orthodox Judaism? It doesn't. It refers to Eastern Orthodox.
I thought the post was pretty up front and simple and didn't really need any further explanation. Did you have any specific questions?
I thought the post was pretty up front and simple and didn't really need any further explanation. Did you have any specific questions?
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pat34lee
Messianic
That is a Catholic forum. I don't think we could debate Mary there any more than arguing against the Trinity or Torah here. It is too late to start anyway, but if you have time to read, the information in the following article will be part of any discussion.
Constantine, Origin Of Sun Worship, Trinity, Babylon & Sunday
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