If you are employed by somebody else is their agenda your moral obligation?

LOVEthroughINTELLECT · May 3, 2015

It seems like most people I have worked with perform their jobs in lockstep with their employer's demands and it would never occur to them to be self-disciplined and self-motivated.

Maybe there is an employer and a job that would give me the freedom to thrive, but my experience with being employed by somebody else is that it is inherently repressive and unenjoyable.

To make the jobs tolerable, and to keep my sanity, I freelance on the job. I set my own goals, come up with my own projects, etc.

A lot of times I have gotten in trouble because of this. "I am not worried about that. I want you to do this.", management says.

I try to find a happy medium. But is this wrong? Is a person morally obligated to completely submit to the goals, values, ideals, discipline, etc. of his/her employer?

madaz · May 4, 2015

If you have a job that you don't enjoy, or you need to do other things to keep your sanity and make it tolerable, you really need to find another job.

Find something you would enjoy doing (without remuneration) and persue that (with remuneration) instead.

Ana the Ist · May 4, 2015

I don't know if it's a moral obligation...more of a contractual one, even if that contract isn't written.

I can't think of any jobs where the employee is given free-reign over how they can achieve their job. I'm sure there are some, I just can't think of any. Generally speaking though...yes, you're obligated to do as your employer says. The obligation occurs when you agreed to take money for the job your employer is asking of you. To take your employer's money and then spend your work time achieving the work you'd like to do instead of what you're told to do is the same as breaking a contract IMO.

LOVEthroughINTELLECT · May 4, 2015

I do everything that I am told to do, and that is recognized on my performance evaluations.

Meanwhile, it seems like no matter where I have been employed my peers and I are presented a million policies and procedures and very few of them are enforced--a lot of them are flagrantly violated, with such violations being ignored by management or tacitly approved.

Is an employee morally obligated to leave his/her own personal motivations, goals, ideals, etc. at the door? If, say, one values doing quality work but his supervisors care only about the quantity of the work, is he morally obligated to leave the goal of doing quality work at the door, or is it okay for him to do quality work as much as he can get away with?

GrimKingGrim · May 4, 2015

It seems like most people I have worked with perform their jobs in lockstep with their employer's demands and it would never occur to them to be self-disciplined and self-motivated.

My mother was a manager of a couple people here and there and was a chief as well. So I'll tell you what she told me. Uh, no. Don't do this unless it's a job that calls for excelling individual performance.

Maybe there is an employer and a job that would give me the freedom to thrive, but my experience with being employed by somebody else is that it is inherently repressive and unenjoyable.

I know the feel. I got 2 that both leave me exhausted and mentally drained. That's life til you work up to that career you want. Gotta lace up the boots and huff it.

To make the jobs tolerable, and to keep my sanity, I freelance on the job. I set my own goals, come up with my own projects, etc.

Careful with that. See, management has alotta stress usually and alot of things to deal with. The last thing they need is someone just flat out doing their own thing while they're not aware of it. They're responsible for the work you're doing.

A lot of times I have gotten in trouble because of this. "I am not worried about that. I want you to do this.", management says.

Oh. So you've run into this wall before.

I try to find a happy medium. But is this wrong?

Yes. It sounds crappy but just do as you're told and be a good follower.

Is a person morally obligated to completely submit to the goals, values, ideals, discipline, etc. of his/her employer?

If you wanna keep your job.

Think of it like you having a kid. You're responsible for them and you need to know that they're doing what you told them to so they can excel and you'll be satisfied. If your kid keeps doing their own thing and just starting new things that are off task while still tasked to do what you've told them to, you're gonna be upset.

Now multiply that type of frustration by about 20-100. That's management stress for ya. I've managed several small teams for school, game design, media, etc. So I know what it's like when people just straight wanna do their own thing because they can't keep the focus for reasons.

Just do the work and earn your money. Live a life later.

True Scotsman · May 4, 2015

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
It seems like most people I have worked with perform their jobs in lockstep with their employer's demands and it would never occur to them to be self-disciplined and self-motivated.

Maybe there is an employer and a job that would give me the freedom to thrive, but my experience with being employed by somebody else is that it is inherently repressive and unenjoyable.

To make the jobs tolerable, and to keep my sanity, I freelance on the job. I set my own goals, come up with my own projects, etc.

A lot of times I have gotten in trouble because of this. "I am not worried about that. I want you to do this.", management says.

I try to find a happy medium. But is this wrong? Is a person morally obligated to completely submit to the goals, values, ideals, discipline, etc. of his/her employer?

As a person who has employed people in the past, I would kill for someone who would think and use their resourcefulness and initiative as long as they are working to accomplish my goals. If they were to be butting heads with me at every turn then they'd not work out. But a person who thinks and has initiative is a very valuable asset. It is a shame that there are so few at least in the field that I worked in.

LOVEthroughINTELLECT · May 4, 2015

GrimKingGrim said:
My mother was a manager of a couple people here and there and was a chief as well. So I'll tell you what she told me. Uh, no. Don't do this unless it's a job that calls for excelling individual performance.

I know the feel. I got 2 that both leave me exhausted and mentally drained. That's life til you work up to that career you want. Gotta lace up the boots and huff it.

Careful with that. See, management has alotta stress usually and alot of things to deal with. The last thing they need is someone just flat out doing their own thing while they're not aware of it. They're responsible for the work you're doing.

Oh. So you've run into this wall before.

Yes. It sounds crappy but just do as you're told and be a good follower.

If you wanna keep your job.

Think of it like you having a kid. You're responsible for them and you need to know that they're doing what you told them to so they can excel and you'll be satisfied. If your kid keeps doing their own thing and just starting new things that are off task while still tasked to do what you've told them to, you're gonna be upset.

Now multiply that type of frustration by about 20-100. That's management stress for ya. I've managed several small teams for school, game design, media, etc. So I know what it's like when people just straight wanna do their own thing because they can't keep the focus for reasons.

Just do the work and earn your money. Live a life later.

Again, I get good performance evaluations, pay raises, etc. I know how to keep a job. This is not a question about such practical concerns.

To be a good person, to live a good life, etc., is one morally obligated to leave his/her interests at the job interview, negotiating table, etc.--when a contract has been entered and it comes time to roll up his/her sleeves and do the work, is he/she morally obligated to leave his/her interests at the door? If a person wants to be empathetic and help people but his/her employer is only concerned with the numbers on spreadsheets, is it right for him/her to be empathetic and help people to the extent that he/she can get away with it, or is the only morally right thing to align all of his/her attitudes, motivation, etc. with the employer's and save being empathetic and helping people for his/her own time?

2ndCovanent · May 4, 2015

To be a good person in whose eyes though? Good is subjective/relative.

In your own eyes: then what ever you feel.
In your boss' eyes: then what ever they tell you.
In God's eyes: then how ever you are led by the holy spirit.

But I guess to be good then one would keep his/her interest at their job.

variant · May 4, 2015

How you act is your only moral obligation.

In terms of employment it effects your morals based upon how you must act for the money they are offering.

That is the only deal.

blackribbon · May 5, 2015

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
Is a person morally obligated to completely submit to the goals, values, ideals, discipline, etc. of his/her employer?

Yes, if you accept a paycheck from them, you are obligated to follow their rules and goals.

You are freed from this obligation when you leave the job and no longer accept pay.

As a nurse, I am obligated to care for every patient I am assigned to care for...my personal beliefs do not get to measure in the quality of care or how I care for an individual. This seems obvious in my line of work...but it is just as black and white if working for a store that sells items that I may not be morally okay with. They are not morally obligated to give you a job so if you accept one offered, you do owe them. Not totally unlike "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's"

FireDragon76 · May 5, 2015

As long as you wish to receive a paycheck, you're obligated, at least in terms of what is lawful (and by lawful I mean, God's law primarily, no one is obligated to do something unethical).

LOVEthroughINTELLECT · May 22, 2015

From this column: "The workforce in these companies is anything but an army of disciplined order takers. They are thinkers, dreamers, and problem solvers who play where the puck is headed, not where it is..."

Ken-1122 · May 23, 2015

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
Is a person morally obligated to completely submit to the goals, values, ideals, discipline, etc. of his/her employer?

If the terms of your employment included your agreement to completely submit to the goals, values, ideas, discipline, etc of the employer; (whatever that means) you are morally obligated to keep your word, or quit your job.

Ken

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