The Boston Bomber and the Death Penalty

keith99 · Apr 15, 2015

Thinking about it for a bit I favor life in prison in this instance for several reasons.

1) Dead he a martyr, alive he is a reminder that one does not get a martyrs death.
2) Men talk. If he is a connected terrorist in time he may shed leads to others.
3) Prison life is miserable.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 15, 2015

Denny Crane said:
Life.

Why give him the easy way out?

So we can be completely rid of him.

ChristsSoldier115 · Apr 15, 2015

Vylo said:
It sounds insane to me.

Mercy to those who are undeserving of it is a fundamental Christian belief, as we believe Christ has done the same for us with our salvation, and are obligated to return the favor to others, as spoken of in His sermon on the Mount.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 15, 2015

ChristsSoldier115 said:
Mercy to those who are undeserving of it is a fundamental Christian belief, as we believe Christ has done the same for us with our salvation, and are obligated to return the favor to others, as spoken of in His sermon on the Mount.

Christ came to redeem the world from eternal death, not physical death. The State allows the church to administer last rites to those condemned who request or accept it.

ChristsSoldier115 · Apr 15, 2015

OldWiseGuy said:
Christ came to redeem the world from eternal death, not physical death. The State allows the church to administer last rites to those condemned who request or accept it.

...? This has nothing to do with my post about Christian mercy. Go re-read Romans 12:19-21 again.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 15, 2015

ChristsSoldier115 said:
...? This has nothing to do with my post about Christian mercy. Go re-read Romans 12:19-21 again.

The topic is the death penalty for criminals. Roman 12:19-21 has nothing to do with criminals or the death penalty.

 Romans 12:19-21 King James Version (KJV)

19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

You are assuming that the death penalty is both evil, and vengeful.

bill5 · Apr 15, 2015

pakicetus said:
It's hard to say I would. I'll have to think about it more. But Jesus does seem to imply we shouldn't... Looks like you've stumped me. But all that means is we both look like hypocrites.

I don't think I've stumped you or that either of us are hypocrites. As stated earlier, you can forgive someone but still give a just punishment.

Oh! Sorry. I shouldn't have done that. I interpreted your remark about America's "ever-softening spine" as saying that it's weak to be merciful.

Thanks and no worries.

Yeah, it's a punishment, but I got the sense that you were defending it at least partly on the basis of revenge. Maybe I misinterpreted you, come to think of it.

Nope, just saying it may be a just punishment in some cases. One can easily make an argument either way IMO.

Senator Cheese said:
People like Tsarnaev need to be removed from society because they pose an immediate and lasting threat. We have a moral duty and obligation to prevent crime and to protect innocents.
We do not, however, have the authority to punish or condemn individuals.

Yes, we do. And you don't think jail is a punishment?

keith99 said:
Thinking about it for a bit I favor life in prison in this instance for several reasons.

1) Dead he a martyr, alive he is a reminder that one does not get a martyrs death.

??? How on Earth would he be a martyr? He's one of the most disliked people in the country. Nobody outside of people who are family/friends or some based on religlious reasons would have the tiniest problem w/this.

2) Men talk. If he is a connected terrorist in time he may shed leads to others.

And again.

3) Prison life is miserable.

Dying isn't exactly fun.....

katautumn · Apr 15, 2015

bill5 said:
Yeah that's an absurd statement.

And for those who say "I'd rather have him in jail for life," OK then tell you what: YOU pay the taxes to give this so-called person 3 square meals a day and a safe place to sleep. And you should also have to face the family of those he killed on a semi-regular basis and spew this oohhh-lets-not-be-too-harsh bit at them.

It actually costs taxpayers more to execute a convicted criminal. 3 square meals and a safe place to sleep? You've apparently never been in prison, or you're basing your opinion of it on the TV series "OZ". Did anyone ever ask the families of the victims if execution would bring them peace and closure? Execution doesn't bring their deceased loved ones back.

I am sick to death of people turning a horrific crime into an emotionally detached philosophical debate. The ever-softening spine of this country is doing no one any favors, to put it extremely mildly.

Because the threat of capital punishment is clearly such a fantastic deterrent? Ever-softening spine? Shall we go back to the days of slavery and whipping slaves for making a mistake? Or how about we just live like it's the wild West and just have shoot-outs in the streets to settle minor disputes, like owing someone money?

Audacious · Apr 16, 2015

I don't think we should kill anyone. At the very worst, we should put them in solitary confinement, and I don't even think we should do that unless it is necessary for the safety of the individual. We should do our best to make sure everyone has what they need to be mentally and physically healthy and relatively happy, including in prison (I believe in rehabilitation, not punishment.).

Some people aren't born, they're created, and I think very few terrorists are 'born' per se: you don't become a terrorist because you're a normal person, you do it because you're a freaking lunatic, and while you're responsible for your actions, elements of society are also somewhat responsible for having produced you. It's regrettable that Taernav became a terrorist, but I don't think we should take away his ability to be alive, or to be happy, or treated with kindness, just because he killed quite a lot of people and caused severe negative impacts on dozens of others.

Yes, that is bad. Yes, it is his fault. And yes, he has to deal with it -- and so do we. But I don't think it's right to lose all sympathy for someone, or to stop seeing them as a human being, just because they commit an atrocious and awful act of violence. He's not innocent, but he's not a literal monster. His brain and his body are still very much human.

As a result of this, I think we should treat him with a measured level of mercy. Measured for the safety of the other people around him.

Obviously I want serious prison reform, but I'd settle for at least not executing anyone, including mass murderers and terrorists.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 16, 2015

I see no redeeming value in treated him like a dangerous animal for sixty or more years.

Aryeh Jay · Apr 16, 2015

KatAutumn said:
It actually costs taxpayers more to execute a convicted criminal. 3 square meals and a safe place to sleep? You've apparently never been in prison, or you're basing your opinion of it on the TV series "OZ". Did anyone ever ask the families of the victims if execution would bring them peace and closure? Execution doesn't bring their deceased loved ones back.

The six years Timothy McVeigh spent in prison before being executed cost more than the 44 years Charles Manson has been incarcerated? Oh, and guess what, life in prison doesnt bring back murdered loved ones either.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 16, 2015

The poll results of this thread don't reflect the 60 percent in national polls that want him executed. Whoever would have thought that polls on the CF would differ from national polls?

Senator Cheese · Apr 16, 2015

bill5 said:
Yes, we do. And you don't think jail is a punishment?

Jail is a method to keep the individual from hurting others.
You might as well put him in a mental institution.

Prison should be both a method for protecting society and a method to help criminals get back on the path of righteousness. It should not be a method to punish for punishment's sake.
Vengeance is of the Lord, not of us.

Senator Cheese · Apr 16, 2015

OldWiseGuy said:
I see no redeeming value in treated him like a dangerous animal for sixty or more years.

Are we not all sinners? Isn't every sin equally disgusting in the eyes of the LORD?
He must be given the chance to repent.

We shouldn't be the ones to decide about life and death - that is only something the LORD should decide.
Of course, that doesn't change the fact that we need to remove such individuals from society in order to protect innocent lives.

bill5 · Apr 16, 2015

If you put someone in jail for life, you are for all intents and purposes taking away their life anyway. It's just a slow rot vs a quick end. Which is "worse" is subjective.

KatAutumn said:
It actually costs taxpayers more to execute a convicted criminal. 3 square meals and a safe place to sleep? You've apparently never been in prison, or you're basing your opinion of it on the TV series "OZ". Did anyone ever ask the families of the victims if execution would bring them peace and closure? Execution doesn't bring their deceased loved ones back.

Because the threat of capital punishment is clearly such a fantastic deterrent? Ever-softening spine? Shall we go back to the days of slavery and whipping slaves for making a mistake? Or how about we just live like it's the wild West and just have shoot-outs in the streets to settle minor disputes, like owing someone money?

Your ridiculous statements indicate you're either trolling or far more interested in having a hissy vs a rational discussion, so I'll pass on further reply FYI.

Senator Cheese said:
Prison should be both a method for protecting society and a method to help criminals get back on the path of righteousness. It should not be a method to punish for punishment's sake.

Sorry, wrong. There are many non-violent people (rightfully) in jail for committing crimes. Or do you think only people who have or tried to phyiscally harm others should be in the jail and the rest we just let run rampant?

And it's not a "method to punish for punishment's sake." It's punishment for committing a crime. That's how it works. You commit a crime, you get punished. Yikes I can't believe that needs explained.

seashale76 · Apr 16, 2015

The death penalty is supposed to be a deterrent. It's only a deterrent if it is immediate and public. The way our system is set up, if he gets the death penalty he'll linger on for years, which is more cruel and defeats the original point of the death penalty anyway. Just put him in prison for life.

ThatRobGuy · Apr 16, 2015

pakicetus said:
Capital punishment actually costs more on average than life imprisonment. I'm not sure if that'll be the case here though.

Well, correction...it artificially costs more if it's a case where they allow a dozen appeals over the course of 20 years...not sure if that'll be the case here.

The "real" cost of execution is rather cheap in comparison to housing and feeding someone for over half their life. It's the red tape that racks up a huge bill on the taxpayers.

Cap that to allow for 2-3 appeals over the course of 5 years...and watch that price tag drastically drop.

mala · Apr 16, 2015

miniverchivi said:
Cap that to allow for 2-3 appeals over the course of 5 years...and watch that price tag drastically drop.

the problem with that is what are you going to do about the people whom have been exonerated of the crimes they were convicted of if you put a cap on appeals?

OldWiseGuy · Apr 16, 2015

Senator Cheese said:
Are we not all sinners? Isn't every sin equally disgusting in the eyes of the LORD?
He must be given the chance to repent.

Click to expand...

I'm guessing he will have his chance to repent during the White Throne Judgment period, under much better circumstances.

We shouldn't be the ones to decide about life and death - that is only something the LORD should decide.

Click to expand...

Only God can destroy the 'soul' of men.

bill5 · Apr 16, 2015

seashale76 said:
The death penalty is supposed to be a deterrent.

Only partly. Again: it is punishment for a crime. Punishments aren't just to deter.

The Boston Bomber and the Death Penalty

Do you think Dzhokhar Tsarnaev should be put to death?

Yes.

No.

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