Cessationists?

I never quite understood that revelation scripture till just now. This is why i love to debate this stuff. I learn from it. Amen Praise the Lord.

You see now? The devil will steal from us, kill us, and destroy things in our life. But that doesnt matter because we walk in the spirit (heaven) not the flesh (this world)

Our life is hidden in Christ. Where our treasure is so is our heart. You see? I do. Amen, i feel so blessed right now.

Souldier said:

If you can heal then go do it. If not then help me seek the kingdom of heaven instead of the corrupted earth. Woe unto the earth, the devil has come down to kill, steal and destroy us. My life however is not on earth any more. He can take my body, take my house and my treasure. But he cant take my spiritual body or my heavenly treasure, or my heavenly home. My heart is now in heaven, not on earth.


Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”



Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Colossians 3 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

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your throwing verses into a mishmash ,out of context with what each verse is a part of .

and i cannot heal ..god does . death and sickness came by the curse of sin.Jesus has set us free from that curse by his blood shed on the cross .if we are set free from the curse we are set free also from its effects .
if we have died in Christ(and by faith we have )then it is no longer us that lives but Christ lives in us ..,. thus he continues in and through us, to do his will and god works which he had for us to do before the foundation of the world
and he also said if they hated him they will hate us also ..yet knowing that he continued to do the good works and so display the power and nature of the love of god .
you keep trying cancel that which you struggle to believe .yet the lord ,knowing they would mistreat him, continues in good works ..because that is what Love does .
suffering for no good reason but the work of the enemy ..is fully deliverable and heal-able .
suffering for the sake of the name of the lord Jesus and the furtherance of the Gospel id both an act of love and a privilege .

Alithis said:

Jesus has set us free from that curse by his blood shed on the cross .if we are set free from the curse we are set free also from its effects .

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We will die in this world because its corrupted. We will not die in heaven though because its eternal and incorruptible. What you are suggesting is that we perfect the flesh which is impossible. We are perfected in the spirit, in heaven.




The spirit The unseen things that we look at.

Heavenly treasure
Spiritual body
Heavenly home

The thief cannot touch these things beacuse they are in heaven. He cant kill my spiritual body, destroy my spiritual home, or steal my spiritual treasure


The flesh. Things that we see

Our physical body
Our physical treasure (money, stocks, bonds, posessions)
Oue homes (built from lumber, brick, drywall and carpet)

The thief can steal my money, and he can kill my body, and he can take my home or destroy it.

Please look at what i just said. Now go read pauls words and think according to what i said. See if it doesnt make sense.

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Souldier said:

We will die in this world because its corrupted. We will not die in heaven though because its eternal and incorruptible. What you are suggesting is that we perfect the flesh which is impossible. We are perfected in the spirit, in heaven.
no one is suggesting any such thing .But what i'm agreeing with is the Love of god and God who is Love . he that came to heal the broken heart, set at liberty then that are bruised ..he is my Savior , my deliverer my healer my restorer he is a these things and more



The spirit The unseen things that we look at.

Heavenly treasure
Spiritual body
Heavenly home

The thief cannot touch these things beacuse they are in heaven. He cant kill my spiritual body, destroy my spiritual home, or steal my spiritual treasure


The flesh. Things that we see

Our physical body
Our physical treasure (money, stocks, bonds, posessions)
Oue homes (built from lumber, brick, drywall and carpet)

The thief can steal my money, and he can kill my body, and he can take my home or destroy it.

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and Christ came to destroy the thief's word and make us more then conquerors over the thief and even to bind the thief and go into his realm and bring captives out .
To live in the Spirit is to live in acknowledgement and obedience to the Holy Spirit who ,when we receive him ,abides IN us . for "the kingdom of heaven .(the influence of the governmental rule & influence of the power of God ) is Within you " Jesus said .

lets get real here ,your speaking as if the power of God is no longer made manifest ,as though the lord Jesus is no longer able to deliver ,set free and heal ,as though he can no longer cast out devils .. but he most certainly can and does .

sitting in a corner waiting for heaven is about as far from "love " as we can get . Because such a stance cares nothing for the lost .

Alithis said:

........
and Christ came to destroy the thief's word and make us more then conquerors over the thief and even to bind the thief and go into his realm and bring captives out .
To live in the Spirit is to live in acknowledgement and obedience to the Holy Spirit who ,when we receive him ,abides IN us . for "the kingdom of heaven .(the influence of the governmental rule & influence of the power of God ) is Within you " Jesus said .

lets get real here ,your speaking as if the power of God is no longer made manifest ,as though the lord Jesus is no longer able to deliver ,set free and heal ,as though he can no longer cast out devils .. but he most certainly can and does .

sitting in a corner waiting for heaven is about as far from "love " as we can get . Because such a stance cares nothing for the lost .

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You wont agree with me so i dont see any need to stay in this forum. I would love to stay and share my beliefs but when people start to report your posts and try to cast you out then its not worth the effort anymore. Maybe i'll just stay in GT. At least there people can handle what im saying without trying to give me the boot. Have a blessed day. I'll leave this scripture and be on my way.




1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit[d] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,[e] 24 because

“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man[f] as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
25 But the word of the Lord endures forever.”[g]
Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

Souldier said:

I cannot teach you what only Christ can teach you. Thats the answer. I cant open your eyes, only Christ can. He teaches us himself. Its a lifelong journey. You keep seeking answers from a text and thats good, i am tottaly with you on that one, but dont forget that the spirit is the one who opens our eyes to see the hidden things inside. Hes the real teacher.

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If this is your stance then why are you here disputing and debating every point of discussion?

Why can't you just show me what scriptures you have that specifically state what you claim?

All you have done is give me snippets of texts taken out of context with your own interjection mixed in.

ByTheSpirit said:

If this is your stance then why are you here disputing and debating every point of discussion?

Why can't you just show me what scriptures you have that specifically state what you claim?

All you have done is give me snippets of texts taken out of context with your own interjection mixed in.

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There are many scriptures and the well runs very deep. Im looking forward to seeing much more in the future. I just heard a preacher talk about the word miracle in the NT. He says that there are three words that get translated into the word "miracle". He says one of those words should be translated as the word "sign". Remember what i said about miracles being signs? Anyway, i thank you for your fellowship and i guess i have said enough. Have a very blessed day brother. Im going to take a break from this debate.





This scripture is cool.

John 4:47 When he heard that Jesus had come out of Judea into Galilee, he went to Him and implored Him to come down and heal his son, for he was at the point of death. 48 Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.”

49 The nobleman said to Him, “Sir, come down before my child dies!”

50 Jesus said to him, “Go your way; your son lives.” So the man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him, and he went his way. 51 And as he was now going down, his servants met him and told him, saying, “Your son lives!”

52 Then he inquired of them the hour when he got better. And they said to him, “Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.” 53 So the father knew that it was at the same hour in which Jesus said to him, “Your son lives.” And he himself believed, and his whole household.

54 This again is the second sign Jesus did when He had come out of Judea into Galilee.

Now back to the topic of the OP. I think we have here a perfect example of how cessationists handle the scripture. What the Bible actually says is irrelevant to them. They have their extra-Biblical revelation that extra-Biblical revelation is wrong, and that the Holy Spirit is on a rather extended vacation, (1800 years and counting), and no amount of scripture will sway them.

jiminpa said:

Now back to the topic of the OP. I think we have here a perfect example of how cessationists handle the scripture. What the Bible actually says is irrelevant to them. They have their extra-Biblical revelation that extra-Biblical revelation is wrong, and that the Holy Spirit is on a rather extended vacation, (1800 years and counting), and no amount of scripture will sway them.

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It is because they only take the scripture that is:

a) easy to comprehend...
b) not against human common sense
c) easy to fit into their own theological box

As I said before and others have echoed, cessassionist want control. Allowing the manifestations of the Spirit means I have no control if someone prophecies or speaks in tongues or works a miracle. It is far easier to restrict such things, tell the Spirt to "bug off", sing a couple songs, speak a 20 minute sermon about "grace", and then make it to the buffet before everyone else does.

To be fair, not all cessassionist are indeed so because they refuse to believe. Some are integrated into that doctrine through family or someone close. Some are flat ignorant of the whole of scripture. I used to be a cessassionist until I nearly killed myself and Jesus said "Trust in me..."

ByTheSpirit said:

To be fair, not all cessassionist are indeed so because they refuse to believe. Some are integrated into that doctrine through family or someone close. Some are flat ignorant of the whole of scripture. I used to be a cessassionist until I nearly killed myself and Jesus said "Trust in me..."

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I understand that, but at some point they should read for themselves. I know they don't. They get used being spoon fed and just eating the poison. Isn't that spiritual laziness? But aren't they in just as grave danger? Look at the videos that jonny mac has on his own website of when he called the Holy Spirit "not God." If I was in his studio audience that he calls a church that day I would have left skid marks getting out of there. You don't hear a mad rush for the door. Tells me that there is not a single Christian in his "church."

It's the rapid ones that bother me the most. The ones who insist that we put down our Bibles and pick up their commentaries or we are not truly following the Bible.

jiminpa said:

I understand that, but at some point they should read for themselves. I know they don't. They get used being spoon fed and just eating the poison. Isn't that spiritual laziness? But aren't they in just as grave danger? Look at the videos that jonny mac has on his own website of when he called the Holy Spirit "not God." If I was in his studio audience that he calls a church that day I would have left skid marks getting out of there. You don't hear a mad rush for the door. Tells me that there is not a single Christian in his "church."

It's the rapid ones that bother me the most. The ones who insist that we put down our Bibles and pick up their commentaries or we are not truly following the Bible.

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I would like to think I would have confronted him on the issue. I know what video you speak of and it makes me sick. I couldn't watch 5 minutes of it without counting several instances of blatant disregard and probably blasphemy.

And yes, I agree such people should read for themselves. I can tell you though they are brainwashed almost. I was. I read the Bible through many times when I was a cessassionist and scriptures I now read as clear references to the church operating in the Spirit I disregarded.

Such people need to have those blinders removed and that is only done through the Holy Spirit's assistance.

ByTheSpirit said:

I would like to think I would have confronted him on the issue.

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Why? He wouldn't listen. He knows his job, and I think he knows his fate. He chose fame and fortune over eternity probably before either of us were born.

Such people need to have those blinders removed and that is only done through the Holy Spirit's assistance.

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and there's the heart-wrenching part. They have trained themselves to disregard the Holy Spirit so well that they are pros at it.

jiminpa said:

Why? He wouldn't listen. He knows his job, and I think he knows his fate. He chose fame and fortune over eternity probably before either of us were born. and there's the heart-wrenching part. They have trained themselves to disregard the Holy Spirit so well that they are pros at it.

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Well not so much for him but for those who would hear me. There may be some of those ignorant/unlearned in the crowd who only attend JM's group because it is the closest church or he is a big name...

ByTheSpirit said:

Well not so much for him but for those who would hear me. There may be some of those ignorant/unlearned in the crowd who only attend JM's group because it is the closest church or he is a big name...

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So you would have stood up and confronted him in the middle of his recording session in hopes to win over some of the studio audience. Good for you. I could not do that. It looks like your love is greater than mine. I applaud you.

jiminpa said:

So you would have stood up and confronted him in the middle of his recording session in hopes to win over some of the studio audience. Good for you. I could not do that. It looks like your love is greater than mine. I applaud you.

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Now I didn't say I would. But rather I hoped I would if given the opportunity.

ByTheSpirit said:

Now I didn't say I would. But rather I hoped I would if given the opportunity.

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See, I don't even see that in the realm of possibility for me, so you are still a better man than I am in that regard.

ByTheSpirit said:

If this is your stance then why are you here disputing and debating every point of discussion?

Why can't you just show me what scriptures you have that specifically state what you claim?

All you have done is give me snippets of texts taken out of context with your own interjection mixed in.

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the issues of comprehension are made evident ..if you look carefully into the posts in question they are sincere and honest .. it is just that (while i do not know comprehensibly)I'm fairly convinced they are being made from the perspective of some one who has not yet been baptized in the Holy Ghost .
if you go back and peruse the posts in question,from that perspective ,they make more sense. which means ..praise God .. the poster in on a journey in the right direction .i pray he/she does not draw back from seeking