The Message of the Old Testament [Book Discussion]

The Message of The Old Testament
Mark Dever
Part 3 - Ancient Wisdom
18 The Message of Job: Wisdom for Losers - Pages 468-480

Post for August 29th Deadline


Okay, I am not sure what to make of the title for this one “Wisdom for Losers” but I can only pray it is meant in jest. I personally have great respect for Job. I have a real problem with the use of the word “losers” in this chapter in relationship to the overall Book of Job and individuals, it borders on disrespect in my view for Job, people in general, and the book.


Pg. 468
Dever points out that the Book of Job is considered a literary masterpiece, in both Christian and secular arenas. The book is about the reality of trials and difficulties we will face in life and coming to terms with the Truth that God allows these things to happen. That Truth can be extremely difficult to understand.

Pg. 469
The author rightly notes that the Book of Job realistically addresses suffering and affliction. It addresses our questions and the limits of our understanding. It also addresses our need to trust God.
Dever goes on to say that, the Book of Job sends us three important messages.
1 – We often suffer.
2 – We “sometimes” understand.
3 – We can always trust God.

Pg. 469
This point needs to be made strongly and clear. Dever quotes the very first thing God says to us in the Book of Job – that Job was, a righteous man.

“In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil” (1:1).

Sadly, and in my opinion horribly, too often people try to make Job out to be a self-righteous man and say that is why he was afflicted with his difficulties, which is simply untrue and a rather sick and twisted interruption of this book. Job was afflicted with his difficulties; he was targeted by Satan, because he was righteous in God’s eyes.

Pg. 469
Dever points out something I had not thought about before; that all of Job’s legendary trials are summarized within just eight verses of this book. This makes me think and realize that the tragedies were focused on very little in this book, the real focus was the responses to the tragedies – the responses of Job, his wife, his (so-called) friends, and associates. Therefore, that leads me to conclude that God’s greater interest is in the responses to tragedy not the details of tragedy.

The eight verses:

Job 1:13–19 (NKJV)
Job Loses His Property and Children
13 Now there was a day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house; 14 and a messenger came to Job and said, “The oxen were plowing and the donkeys feeding beside them, 15 when the Sabeans raided them and took them away—indeed they have killed the servants with the edge of the sword; and I alone have escaped to tell you!”
16 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants, and consumed them; and I alone have escaped to tell you!”
17 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “The Chaldeans formed three bands, raided the camels and took them away, yes, and killed the servants with the edge of the sword; and I alone have escaped to tell you!”
18 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, 19 and suddenly a great wind came from across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people, and they are dead; and I alone have escaped to tell you!”

Job 2:7 (NKJV)
So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD, and struck Job with painful boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.

Pg. 470
The author points out that suffering is a universal experience that touches each one of us at some point and time in life. However often, the Christian response is to avoid admitting our doubts, our fears, our failures, and/or the anger and conflict that comes with suffering. Dever, then notes that far too many Christians want their Sunday morning services to be “motivational pep rallies” where we seek to be pumped up for the week with positive messages. Whereas, it is my belief that if we are truly to preserve in our lives and our relationship with Christ it is this very type of message, the messages Job has to offer, that we need to hear for it is these types of messages that will truly sustain us in difficult times.

Pg. 471
Dever notes that Elihu states that he has reframed thus far from speaking because Job is his elder and he wishes to be respectful. I would say there are times when we older Christians need to hear from the younger Christians especially if it involves Truth and God’s Word. Truth is its own authority and trumps age. Too bad Elihu did not have more truth in his words.

Pg. 471
Next Dever notes an extremely important happening. God enters into the discussion in chapter 38 and corrects Job’s friends/associates for having spoken out of turn and without knowing the facts - “words without knowledge” (38:2).

Job 38:2 (NKJV)
“Who is this who darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?

Pg. 472
Dever quotes Job from chapter 42 when Job is speaking to God, “Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.”

Here are the Scriptures:
Job 42:2–3 (NKJV)
2 “I know that You can do everything,
And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?’
Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.

Pg, 472
There use to be a radio personality who was famous for saying, ‘Now for the rest of the story.’ On this page, Dever gives us the ending to Job’s story. God shows up in chapter 42 and informs Job’s friends/associates that they have no idea what they are talking about, that they have been completely wrong about Job and then God blesses Job. Hallelujah is that powerful of what!

Pg. 472-473
As Dever explains, each of these so-called friends’s assessment of Job’s situation can be summarized in the following, ‘Job we know you are going through a tough time and clearly this has came upon you because you are harboring a secret sin. Now Job you know God punishes sin and with all that has happened to you your secret sin must be extraordinary. God is just; therefore, what has happened to you is just because you are being punished. Clearly you are lying about having sinned, we are sure you have sinned otherwise this would not be happening to you.’ Job’s companions had the ‘you get what you deserve’ attitude.

Dever goes on to recount how Job reacts to his companions. ‘No, I did not sin.’
In this statement Job means, he does not have a secret sin; he does not mean he has never sinned in his lifetime. He acknowledges he has sinned throughout the book.

The author would like us to keep in mind that Job’s companions knew Job and regarded him highly, which made them struggle to understand his plight and made them desperate to find a reason for why these horrible events were happening Job. That makes we wonder about and reflect on how many times you or I have struggled to find a reason why someone was going through something and perhaps immaturely gave our opinion on matters we did not understand.

Pg. 474
Dever poses a very interesting question, “Why assume that we must understand what God intends through suffering?” Chew on that question for a few minutes. Why do we think we have the right to understand, to know God’s intent for allowing something? The job of the created is to trust The Creator.

Pg. 474
The author points out that Job had no knowledge of the dialogue that took place between God and Satan in heaven. Job had no idea that Satan had to ask God for permission to attack Job and that God had His reasons for allowing this attack to take place.

Job 1:6–12 (NKJV)
Satan Attacks Job’s Character
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
So Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”
9 So Satan answered the LORD and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”
12 And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.”
So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

Job 2:1–10 (NKJV)
Satan Attacks Job’s Health
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
3 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause.”
4 So Satan answered the LORD and said, “Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has he will give for his life. 5 But stretch out Your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”
6 And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand, but spare his life.”
7 So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD, and struck Job with painful boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head. 8 And he took for himself a potsherd with which to scrape himself while he sat in the midst of the ashes.
9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast to your integrity? Curse God and die!”
10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

Pg. 475
Dever makes a point that Job’s only evidence for trusting God during his afflictions is the Truth that God is – that He is there. For Job this simple but deep trust was enough.

Pg. 476-478
The author notes what I pray we all realize; that sincere and true worship of God has absolutely nothing to do with our circumstances. Job trusted God’s character.

Pg. 478
Dever comments that we can be well assured that God fully intends to show his glory in our lives and in the lives of everyone around us.


At the end of the chapters, the author offers some “Questions for Reflection”, I will comment on some of those questions. I have noted the question number on which I am commenting.

Questions for Reflection

7. For me living with a belief in my God’s power is far better than living according to my own understanding. I fully trust that nothing happens to me that God does not allow and that God is not going to allow anything to happen to me that is not something redeemable for His glory. I have gone through my share of trials during my lifetime and by God’s grace persevered with Him.

I have done the following many times in my own writing therefore, I am certain HereIStand meant to quote Dever as having said and written the following, posted below. HereIStand you left out the word “not” in Dever sentence, which alters the meaning substantially. Again, I have done this with my own writing many times.

“The true worship of God does not depend on our circumstances.”

Dever, Mark (2006-04-10). The Message of The Old Testament (p. 477). Good News Publishers. Kindle Edition.

The Message of The Old Testament
Mark Dever
Part 3 - Ancient Wisdom
19 The Message of Psalms: Wisdom for Spiritual People - Pages 482-504

Post for September 12th Deadline

Spirituality and the Psalms
Biblical Spirituality Characteristic
Seven Characteristics of Biblically Spiritual People
#1: Praise-Giving, #2: Honesty, #3: Remembering, #4: Morality, #5: Changing, #6: Trusting, #7: Thanksgiving

Pg. 485
Dever points out that many individual have a yearning for others to respect their character, their interest, and generally, who they are. However, as he notes, their very yearning is a witness against them and shows the hollowness and superficiality of their lives.

Pg. 485
Dever references Stephen Covey book “The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.”
As Dever did I just wish to note them here; my thoughts are in brackets beside each one.
1) be proactive [You must act on what you learn, what is happening around you, what God is doing in and around your life.]
2) begin with the end in mind [Long-term vision is a must you cannot be flaky.]
3) put first things first [Get your priorities in order, daily.]
4) think win/win [You cannot have a defeatist attitude.]
5) seek first to understand, then to be understood [Listen well and express or communicate yourself effectively.]
6) synergize [Connect your dots effectively.]
7) sharpen the saw, that is, take care of yourself [Self-care in a godly manner is key to productivity.]

Pg. 488
Regarding point #1 Praise-Giving, Dever remarks that true godly, or what he calls biblical, spirituality has it center on God and finds joy in God and who God is.

Pg. 489
Regarding point #2 Honesty, Dever point out that true godly spirituality does not wear rose-colored glasses when it views the world and life. Honesty does not deny it’s feelings to God; honesty pours it’s heart out to God.

Pg. 493
Regarding point #3 Remembering, Dever exhorts us to be a people who remember who God is, His promises, and His faithfulness, as this will bring us hope for the future goodness of God.

Pg. 494
Dever goes on to say that, we should not quickly squander or show little regard for the goodness that God gives us in many different forms within our daily life.

Pg. 495
Regarding point #4 Morality, the authors exhorts us to be mindful that if we slight God’s wisdom in our decision-making process and rely only upon our own ability to gather knowledge we are wrong.

Pg. 496
Dever goes on to express that people who truly hold godly spirituality must by the power of God and for the purpose of God heed God’s words.

Pg. 496
Regarding point #5 Changing, the author lists some Psalms of repentance and change.
Psalms 6, 32, 38, 51, 102, 130, and 143.

Pg. 497
Dever quotes, Dwight L. Moody – “We want them to change their lives, and a religion that does not save men from sin is not worth going across the street after.”

Pg. 497
Dever puts us in remembrance of what Paul said in the Scriptures.
‘worldly sorrow [that] brings death.’ Only a ‘godly sorrow brings repentance’ (2 Cor. 7:10).

Pg. 499
Regarding point #6 Trusting, after quoting a Psalm Dever states that the psalmist urges us to let go of everything else we place our trust in and instead trust in God alone. I personally believe every truly Devoted Follower of Christ comes to a point where this becomes a tangible reality in their lives – their need to trust God alone and in that moment when that becomes real to them is almost like a Bible one can touch it becomes so real, so much a part of them. Dever puts it this way, “At the end of the day, living the Christian life requires us to deeply and profoundly give up on ourselves and trust God and his Word.”

Pg. 499
Dever equates trust with faith under the New Covenant. To trust God is to have faith in God. To have faith in God is to truth God.

Pg. 501
Regarding point #7 Thanksgiving, Dever notes that a person filled with godly spirituality is a person of deep gratitude toward God.


At the end of the chapters, the author offers some “Questions for Reflection”, I will comment on some of those questions. I have noted the question number on which I am commenting.

Questions for Reflection

1. For worldly people I discern that their sense of spirituality involves merely a greater understanding of oneself.

HereIStand I am not going to post this week for the September 26th deadline. I will pick up with my notes on Proverbs and post those for the October 10th deadline.

The Message of The Old Testament
Mark Dever
Part 3 - Ancient Wisdom
20 The Message of Proverbs: Wisdom for the Ambitious - Pages 506-525

Post for October 10th Deadline

Pg. 508
Dever describes the Book of Proverbs as a “book of wisdom for those who want to fulfill their ambitions.”

Pg. 509
There are some keys to reading Proverbs according to Dever and the first of those keys is that we must use common sense when reading the various proverbs. All the proverbs are not black and white they are generally true. I would like to note here that the proverbs are not biblical promises; they are general truths of wisdom.

Pg. 509
Dever’s second key is that individual proverbs are always ultimately true, with the emphasis on “ultimately” – meaning at a point in time in one’s life they may not appear true but they will ultimately come to pass if the individual preservers in adhering to the proverb.

Pg. 510
Key number three according to the author is individual proverbs are normally true now, with the emphasis on “normally” – meaning more times than not.

Pg. 510
Key number four is that the individual proverbs use poetic imagery per Dever.

Pg. 510
Dever also notes in key number five individual proverbs are only partial – meaning a sardonic or sarcastic observation about life.

Pg. 510
Key six according to Dever is that individual proverbs are sometimes obscure – meaning the culture in which it was written and our culture today may make the proverb difficult to understand or to be interpret correctly.

Pg. 510
The last key, key number seven is that as a whole, the proverbs are religious according to Dever with the emphasis on the use of the word “religious” – meaning it is not secular wisdom it is godly wisdom.

Section the author titles “The Fool” – the proverbs Dever will discuss addresses foolish behavior.

Pg. 511
Dever makes a really great point here. When people read or hear the word “fool” they tend to imagine someone who is not intelligent however being a “fool” or foolish behavior is not about intelligence because there are many things that characterize the fool or foolish behavior that have nothing to do with intelligence.

Pg. 511
When referring to a fool Dever points out that, a fool can be spotted by their response to discipline. If an individual hates correction, disregards discipline, and lacks self-control then you might be dealing with a fool.

Pg. 511
Listening carefully to what someone says will tell if he or she is a fool or not according to Dever.

Pg. 511
Dever notes that a fool can be spotted by the company they keep and it is best to avoid being in the company of a fool. Dever cites Proverbs 17:12 (NKJV) “Let a man meet a bear robbed of her cubs, Rather than a fool in his folly.”

Pg. 511
The fool can also be spotted by observing what ultimately happened or happens to him or her per the author.

Pg. 511
Direct quote, ““The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’” (Ps. 14:1; 53:1). Essentially, fools are atheists. They have determined in their hearts to live as if there were no God. Jeremiah described those who worship idols as “foolish” (Jer. 10:8).”
Dever, Mark (2006-04-10). The Message of The Old Testament (p. 512). Good News Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Pg.512
The author points out that the Book of Proverbs presents us with a challenge, we can follow the way of folly or the way of wisdom – we can trust self or we can trust God. A fool trust in himself or herself instead of trusting in God. A godly successful person follows after wisdom.

Proverbs 28:26 (NKJV)
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.

Section the author titles “The Sluggard” – the proverbs Dever will discuss addresses lazy behavior.

Pg.512
Dever notes that you can recognize a Sluggard by his or her failure to take advantage of “present opportunities” and they allows them to slip by, while he or she makes excuses for doing so. Dever quotes a commentator Derek Kidner who said, “does not commit himself to a refusal, but deceives himself by the smallness of his surrenders. So, by inches and minutes, his opportunity slips away.”

Pg.512
Sluggards love to sleep as Dever points out. He states they are carefree and lethargic inaction is the norm for them. Dever compares it to them practicing for the grave.

Pg.512
Another way to recognize the Sluggard according to Dever is they fail to ever finish what they start. Instead of being diligent, they waste opportunity after opportunity, disappointing those around them along the way. The Sluggard is continually making excuses and wants an easy life instead of a life spent doing good.

Pg.512
As Dever states we should have a godly ambition to work.

Section the author titles “The Family” – the proverbs Dever will discuss addresses marriage and children.

Pg.513
The author notes that a person who is living a wise and godly life pays heed to the family.

Pg.513-514
As Dever notes marriage is an important topic that Proverbs covers and believe me it is, going on thirty years of marriage myself. Having been married for so long I totally agree with Devers conclusions regarding what Proverbs has to say about marriage.
• Mutual respect is a must.
• Working together to deal with the practicalities of life will have to take place.
• Romantic love cannot be allowed to die, unless you want your marriage to die and creating good sexual harmony will bring joy to the marriage.
• Wives be happy that your husbands care enough about you to be jealous to some degree of other men and their attention or intentions.
• Faithfulness and a commitment to be true to each other – no adultery of any kind.
All of this is covered in chapters five and six of Proverbs.

Pg.514
Dever notes that the Proverbs teach us that as parents our primary job is to “teach” our children.

Section the author titles “Friends” – the proverbs Dever will discuss addresses bad friendships and good friendships.

Pg.515-516
As the author reminds us friends do influence us and if we are friends with people who involve themselves in evil, are gluttons, disobedient to God, etc. we too may find ourselves following the poor friend’s ways. It is also important to be observant of why people are choosing us a friend. Are they sincere in their affection toward us or are they attempting to use us in some capacity.

Pg.516
Good friendships is not always a natural process as the author indicates Proverbs shows us, good friendships often takes work. Good friendships last and good friends are sensible. We should not make offers to do things for our friends if we cannot do them or cannot follow through. A real friend is selfless, not using people for their own gain or pleasure but attempting to bring something to the other person’s life, to contribute to their happiness. We are to forgive friends. Real friends tell each other the truth. These principles are peppered throughout the Proverbs.

Section the author titles “Words” – the proverbs Dever will discuss addresses our use of words that are either good and true words or bad and false word.

Pg.518
Dever reminds us that Proverbs tells us that haste in the use of our words more than anything else will bring about our defeat in what we say. The Bible has much to say about the use of the tongue and the importance of selecting our words carefully.

Pg.519
The author also gives us a nice practice we can use in order to determine if we are using wisdom when we speak. He suggest that as we think about what words we are going to speak we should ask ourselves, ‘If the words I am about to speak echo through eternity, would I be happy for that to be so?’

Pg.519
Dever makes the point that in the Bible “hearing” does not simply mean listening it also means following up on what you hear by taking the appropriate action. Therefore, we need to have a godly desire to use all words correctly, both those we speak and those we hear. We use those we speak properly by selecting them properly and we use those we hear properly by choosing to act on what we hear.

Section the author titles “Life and Death” – the proverbs Dever will discuss address the path to both life and the path to death.

Pg. 519
Each one of us is on a path that leads us to life or a path that leads us to death, Dever states.

Pg. 519-520
There is a path that leads to death and that path is made up of sinful choices. Sin by nature is deadly, Dever points out.

Pg. 520
Dever also notes what he deems the path of life, which involves knowing wisdom, doing what is righteous, and fearing the Lord. He goes on to say that, fear of the Lord includes wisdom and true righteousness is informed by wisdom, and motivated by the fear of the Lord.

Pg.520
Dever reminds us of what the Scriptures teach us, that we are all accountable to God for our sinful and/or wrong choices.

Pg.522
What path are you on, the path to life or the path to death? Upon which path do you wish to be? What choices will you make to get on that path?

The Message of The Old Testament
Mark Dever
Part 3 - Ancient Wisdom
21 The Message of Ecclesiastes: Wisdom for the Successful - Pages 526-545

Post for October 24th Deadline

Pg.528
Dever contrast the books of Proverbs and Ecclesiastes by noting that Proverbs is wisdom for those who seek success and Ecclesiastes is wisdom for people who already have success.

Pg.529
The author points out that the basic message from the writer of Ecclesiastes is about meaninglessness and when the writer of Ecclesiastes writes about meaninglessness, he means literally everything is meaningless.

The word translated “vanity” in the KJV and “meaningless” in the NIV refers to something insubstantial, short-lived, transient, temporary, and ephemeral, and thus something that will pass away.

Pg.529
Dever points out that the writer of Ecclesiastes makes it known that there is much injustice in this world because we see praise given to the wicked in life and honor given to them in death yet, in contrast we see the righteous person get what the wicked should receive and rightfully deserve (Ec. 8:14). The Teacher, the writer of Ecclesiastes, points out that true justice can often seem hidden in many situations because there are many people who do not get what they deserve in life, either good or bad.

Pg.530
Dever notes that the Teacher explores the emptiness and worthlessness of pleasure in Ec. 2:2-11. I have seen people who seem to spend their lives living for pleasure, wherever and whenever they can find it – these people always seemed shallow to me.

Pg.531
Dever cites a Westminster Shorter Catechism statement on the purpose of life.
“The purpose of life is to glorify God and enjoy him forever”
I say Amen to that!

Pg.531
Dever notes that the Teacher points out in Ec. Ch. 4 that popularity and/or public approval is another pursuit the Teacher labels meaningless. Now that is something most people pursue at some point and time in their lives, even Devoted Christians.

The Teacher reminds us of what was true in his day and is still true today – people (the public) is fickle, and their affection should not be overvalued or pursued.

I believe that if you are a person who needs to be popular and have the approval of people or the pubic you will be a person who is always controlled by something other than The Spirit of God. You will be controlled by your own desires to be approved of and you will be controlled by other people, both of which will make it almost impossible for you faithfully to follow The Spirit of God.

Pg.532
Under what Dever titles “Good Things” he notes that next on the Teacher’s hit list of meaningless things is youth and vigor (Ec. 11:10). Well this one does not take a rocket scientist; we know both will one day leave us as we ebb closer to going home.

Let me qualify my next statement by saying I am around 50 year old.
I see women, often even at church, who are desperately and sadly tying to cling on to youth by presenting themselves, through their manner of dress and grooming, in such a way that totally dishonors who God created them to be and their season in life. Why can’t we as women just enjoy each season of our lives and embrace each season, why must we as a collective group, cling to the past. I pray more godly women are able to embrace their value in every season of life.

Pg.532
Next Dever mentions that the Teacher states that work, along with the wealth and the achievements work produces is also all vanity or meaningless as stated in Ec. Chapters 1 and 2.

Pg.533
Dever states that the Teacher makes the point that much of the drive for wealth, work, and achievement is motivated by envy (Ec. 4:4). We envy our neighbor so we want what they have thus, we are driven to work harder and harder to get what they have or perhaps we just want to be someone that other people will envy.

Then the Teacher goes on to say that in the end after all the labor and effort we end up having to leave what we have acquired behind when we die for others who did not obtain it themselves and may not use it wisely (Ec. 2:18-23).

Pg. 533
Next on Dever and the Teachers list is, the “love of money” and how empty that lover will leave you.

“Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless” (Ec. 5:10).

As Dever notes Ec. 4:8 and 6:1-9 make the point that the pursuit of wealth and the time that it takes to amass the money will leave you empty because you will either not have time for a family or not have time to enjoy the family you have or even enjoy the money yourself, life will be devoted to obtaining more and more money.

Pg.533
Dever points out that the Teacher indicates that even wisdom is meaningless in the end – as is madness and folly.

“Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind” (1:17).

I understand this in the context that even wisdom does not last, in that all people die, but the application of godly wisdom is a good and godly pursuit.

Pg.534
As Dever points out ultimately the Teacher refers to his own life as vanity or meaningless (Ec. 7:15).

Pg.536
The author makes a magnificent point on this page; Job came to realize that all the world had to offer was vanity or meaningless by losing all and the Teacher came to realize this truth by having it all.


Now Dever wants to explore why everything is meaningless and how we should respond to this truth.

Pg.536
Dever shares a somber reality with us that it does not matter how much wealth a man has, his splendor, or all of his accomplishments he will ultimately be forgotten.

Pg.536
Dever states that the physical vastness of the universe can cause us to feel that we are meaningless and insignificant; hence, the Teacher realizes the vastness of time will swallow up any meaning that could be found in the span of our lives here on earth.

Pg.537
For the wise man, like the fool, will not be long remembered; in days to come both will be forgotten. Like the fool, the wise man too must die! (Ec. 2:16).

Pg.537
Dever states, “Perhaps more than anywhere else in Scripture—except the cross of Christ—Ecclesiastes presents the real effects of sin in our world.” What an interesting perspective.

Pg.539
On this page, Dever makes a point about what I consider to be a general relational truth that I will restate in my own word.

When someone is hurting deeply and finding it difficult to trust in God, it is hard for them to hear the words of and receive the truths that a person might be speaking if that person has not gone through what they are going through. Trust in God, He will redeem it all for His Glory will ring shallow in their ears. However, set before them a person that has actually gone through what they are going through saying the exact same words and those same words will have a powerful affect on that person.

That said, this means if we wish to be able to say the words that will help our brother or sister in their time of need and have them received we might need to be more transparent about the issues we have gone through ourselves. It just might be that only through this transparency about our own struggles and difficulties with God can we truly help another.

Pg.540
Dever comments, “an accurate measure of evil within the context of this fallen world is part of godly wisdom.” I absolutely agree with this statement.

Pg.541
Another insightful statement by Dever, “Ecclesiastes is powerful exactly because it presents the tension and struggle between the Teacher’s sense of futility and his very real faith in the God who is true, between the way things are and the way they ought to be.”

Pg.541
As Dever points out that the world should not be our final or ultimate investment, eternity should be. God never made us to be satisfied with just what we could obtain in this life. The Teacher told us in Ec. 3:11 that God has “set eternity” in our hearts. We live here in this temporal life; however, our hearts should be set on eternity, our focus on the Kingdom.

Pg.541
As the author states Ecclesiastes end on a godly note, it ends by telling us the only thing that matters in life.

“Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil” (Ec. 12:13-14).

Pg.541
As Dever states it is only with God that we can have an accurate and godly perspective that will bring godly meaning to life. In and of ourselves we cannot give true meaning to life. We were created by God for God’s purposes and only through surrendering to that Truth, to Him, will we find meaning for our lives.

Pg.542
The author remind us that God is holy but He is also loving, which is why He sent His Son, Jesus, to die on the cross and carry our judgment for our rebellion upon Himself. He has done this for anyone, and I do mean anyone, who will repent of his or her sins and believe in Him – trust Jesus and what He did for us, for you.

Pg.542
1 Corinthians 15:58 (NKJV)
Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.


At the end of the chapters, the author offers some “Questions for Reflection”, I will comment on some of those questions. I have noted the question number on which I am commenting.

Questions for Reflection

9. Christ escaped the futility and meaninglessness of this world through the cross and it is through the cross that we too will escape the futility and meaninglessness of this world.

The Message of The Old Testament
Mark Dever
Part 3 - Ancient Wisdom
22 The Message of Song of Songs: Wisdom for the Married - Pages 546-563

Post for November 7th Deadline

Pg. 548
Dever begins the chapter by addressing what he calls the “Sexual Revolution” and how we should respond to all the changes in our society in the last fifty years or so. Some of the fallout he mentions is abortion, divorce, remarriage, homosexuality, premarital and extramarital sex – all of which has increased publically in the last fifty years. Boundaries in society seem less secure, as Dever puts it, as polygamy, pederasty, sadomasochism, inappropriate contentography and inappropriate behavior with animals all rise in an attempt to gain acceptance in society. Please note that all these behaviors are things, which the Bible deems unacceptable behavior to God.

Pg. 548
Dever quotes some interesting numbers. That in 1986 there were 75 million hardcore inappropriate contentography videos rented but by 1996 there were 665 million rented. What a staggering increase in just 10 years! What a sad commentary on our society.

Pg.548
Dever quotes a inappropriate contentography publisher’s statement from an interview, however Dever does not state who it was that made the following statement, “The great advantage of capitalism is that greed overrides morality and puritanism.” This statement is somewhat true, even among people who call themselves Christians and that is also a terrible commentary on our society and speaks to the weakness of morality as a whole.

Pg.548
Dever notes that the SBC was able to determine that the divorce rate among members of the Southern Baptist churches was on par with or even worse than the population as a whole.

Pg.553
After quoting a great deal of Song of Songs aka Song of Solomon Dever points out that many people would be shocked to realize the passion that is described in that book. I have always believed that if the church would talk more about sex within the confines of godly marriage between a man and woman there would be a lot less divorce in the Body of Christ.

Pg.554
In Dever’s opinion, God designed marriage to fulfill four different longing we have as human beings. 1 – physical intimacy, 2 – relational intimacy, 3 – establishing identity, and 4 – finding meaning.

Pg.554
Dever reminds us that God Himself told us in Genesis it is not good for man to be alone and thus created Eve as a helpmate.

Pg.555
Dever also points us to the Scriptures in SOS that warn against entering sexual relationships before it is time to do so. “Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires” (2:7; 3:5; 8:4).

Pg.555-556
The author makes the point that though our society has abused physical love and the intimacy that should be associated with it, God still views it as a good thing. Physical love is delightful, physical beauty to be enjoyed, and should be satisfying. We should in no way be ashamed of physical intimacy, which takes place within marriage.

Pg.557
Dever makes it known that God created us to need relationships with other people. We need to know other people and we need to be known by other people. We must not view our need for, or other peoples need for, fellowship with others as a weakness.

Pg.558
We are reminded by Dever that God intends a married couple to enjoy both physical pleasure and relational pleasure, a byproduct of their love for one another, both of which will deepen the marital union.

Pg.558
Dever states his position as being that it is both a natural and healthy desire to understand ourselves in relation to other people. This to me is a complex but interesting statement. It is natural but is it always healthy, the emphasis being on the word “always” I chose to use.

Pg.559
When Dever talks about the loss of a relationship or the death of someone we love dearly, describing the grief involved he says the following. “Your very painful grief is not just for them and your loss of them, it is also for the loss of yourself. This happens because we all know ourselves in our relationships with other people, particularly those we love.”

“the loss of yourself” – That statement rings the bells of my soul deeper than when someone says we grieve for ourselves for what we have lost. I believe it does because Dever is stating that a part of our “identity” is lost when the person is lost and I am not sure I have ever really fully grasp all that such a truth means until now. It is as though I realized it in part but not fully.

When I lost my Mother I grieved for my loss, the loss of having my mother around but did I also grieve for the loss of being a daughter. When my father died, did I grieve the loss of being a daddy’s little girl. To me viewing it this way just feels different.

Pg.559
The author states that individual personal fulfillment can be found within the exclusive monogamous martial love relationship. I would like to add for clarity – a form or aspect of personal fulfillment but not personal fulfillment entirely, for the completeness of personal fulfillment is found in ones relationship with Christ Jesus.

Pg.559
Dever makes the point that sexual love outside of marriage and with multiple partners results in sexual love losing all it meaning.

Pg.559
Dever also makes the point that there is another aspect of completeness that comes through the monogamous marriage God has designed. That completeness can be jeopardized when people are unfaithful and take other lovers. God has created us to desire to be coupled up with another person, to find that person with which we will find our greatest satisfaction and contentment.

Pg.560
Dever points out that marriage provides a sense of completeness even when the marriage does not result in children. As a person who has been married thirty years and who had my marriage relationship before children and has had that marriage relationship since the child left the nest; I can honestly say, not meaning to offend anyone or take away from the joy of children, that the marriage relationship is far better before and after the children if the marriage relationship is build between God, man, and woman and is not predicated on the children. The natural stresses that come with training children up in the way they should go in the Lord Jesus creates a tremendous amount of stress for a couple.

Pg.561
Dever recaps all that God gives us through the physical love relationship inside of marriage: physical pleasure, relational intimacy, a greater knowledge of ourselves, and a greater trust in Him. Thus resulting in helping us to understand what it means to be, and how to be, in a trusting, loving, relationship with Him.


At the end of the chapters, the author offers some “Questions for Reflection”, I will comment on some of those questions. I have noted the question number on which I am commenting.

Questions for Reflection

5. As a minister and a married woman, it has been my view for many years that the church does not address the physical love relationship within marriage and the building of the husband and wife relationship as much as it should. Song of Solomon/Song of Songs is a book you never hear about from the pulpit or in the Bible study classes. Perhaps if we talked more about this matter there would be less divorce within the Body of Christ.

6. It is my personal belief that the main lesson the Book of SOS’s teaches about sex for the married couple is that physical love and satisfying sexual intimacy is extremely important within the marriage relationship between man and woman.

The Message of The Old Testament
Mark Dever
Part 4 – Big Hopes
23 The Message of Isaiah: Messiah - Pages 566-588

Post for November 21st Deadline

Pg. 567
Dever points out that of all the disappointments we experience in life, most of them involve other people. No doubt in my mind, these were people in whom we placed our trust and that trust was either violated intentionally or betrayed unintentionally. It happens, it is part of life, and if we know anyone long enough, he or she will let us down in some manner. Why? Because they are human and just as we let other people down, people let us down. We are flawed.

Pg. 567
Dever rightfully notes that the “balance between realistic trust and glum cynicism” can in fact be razor thin.

Pg.570
Dever paraphrases Isaiah 5:4, “they are called a vineyard which, though planted by God, yields only bad fruit.” What a sobering thought to be of God but to yield only bad fruit.

Pg.571
In the Book of Isaiah the people of God rebelled against God and at the heart of their rebellion is the reality that “God’s people trusted in the wrong things” as Dever states.

Pg.571
God’s people trusted in ungodly leadership (kings).

My thoughts…
All too often today we see in our society that people, even Christian people, trust in those they view as people in authority or leadership regardless of whether or not their leadership is of God or godly or even in line with God’s principles at all.

That leadership or authority might be a political leader, a medical leader (especially psychiatrists), a community leader, or a home leader. Because their position is viewed as that of a leader people all too often think them “right “or correct when they may well be completely opposed to the things of God.

If our country’s political leaders outlaw carrying a Bible or public gatherings of worship, what will you do?

If your doctor tells you it is wrong to view homosexuality as sin, what will you think or believe from that point on?

If your community homeowner association says, you cannot put a Christmas nativity scene in your yard for Christmas, will you throw yours away or leave it in the attic?

What if your spouse tells you he or she no longer wants you to attend church, not just one Sunday, they never want you to go back, will you stay home and never attend worship again?

Pg.571
God’s people trusted in other gods (idols).
When the creator worships something created as Dever puts it – whether that be money, success in a profession, children, ministries, etc. to include literal alters to other gods and spiritualist that are of the occult.

My thoughts…
No matter how noble the cause if we allow anything to come between God and us or between us and what God wants us to do, our obedience to Him, then we have made that thing or person an idol in our lives.

I remember a time when my own child was an idol for me. Helping that child, being there for that child was more important than anything else in my life was. It was a terrible idol and very self-destructive. However, I can assure you many Christian mothers would have said I was just being a “good mom” to my child. They would have been or would be wrong.

When people use “things” to make them feel happy or whole, materialism, they have set up an idol in their lives. Christians seem to find this idol, materialism, much more acceptable, even calling it the blessings of God, than an idol of drugs or alcohol that another person might use for comfort. The idol of “stuff” in God’s eyes is just as bad, for an idol is an idol.

When a person chooses the comfort of food, drugs, or alcohol over the comfort of God, they are choosing an idol to meet their need instead of God meeting their need.

Idols cannot be toyed with, put away and pulled out again; they must be completely destroyed if one is to be truly set free from them permanently.

Pg.572
Now for the one that our society praises the most.
God’s people trusted in themselves (me, myself, and I).

My thoughts…
Self-reliance is not only praised in our society it is expected. The idea of relying on God or relying on each other is foreign in today’s relational economy. This has even crept into the church.

Self-reliance is motivated by humanism and pride. A characteristic that when left long enough will consume the person with cynicism and bitterness.

Pg.572
Dever points to chapter 22 in making his point that though it is a good thing to defend oneself, it is a bad thing to not trust in God to be your defender simultaneously.

Pg.573
Dever also points out that God again warned against self-reliance in chapter 29.

Isaiah 29:10–16 (NKJV)
10 For the LORD has poured out on you
The spirit of deep sleep,
And has closed your eyes, namely, the prophets;
And He has covered your heads, namely, the seers.
11 The whole vision has become to you like the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one who is literate, saying, “Read this, please.”
And he says, “I cannot, for it is sealed.”
12 Then the book is delivered to one who is illiterate, saying, “Read this, please.”
And he says, “I am not literate.”
13 Therefore the LORD said:
“Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths
And honor Me with their lips,
But have removed their hearts far from Me,
And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,
14 Therefore, behold, I will again do a marvelous work
Among this people,
A marvelous work and a wonder;
For the wisdom of their wise men shall perish,
And the understanding of their prudent men shall be hidden.”
15 Woe to those who seek deep to hide their counsel far from the LORD,
And their works are in the dark;
They say, “Who sees us?” and, “Who knows us?”
16 Surely you have things turned around!
Shall the potter be esteemed as the clay;
For shall the thing made say of him who made it,
“He did not make me”?
Or shall the thing formed say of him who formed it,
“He has no understanding”?

Pg. 574
God’s people trusted in their own unfaithful leaders (disobedient spiritual leaders).

My thoughts…
‘As unto the Lord’ is the only way we are to follow anyone and that includes spiritual leaders.

If a spiritual leader rejects you for following God’s Ways, God’s Will, and God’s Word then you are better off being cast aside by that individual.

Some of the worse events in Christian history took place because godly people listened to, and followed, the distorted teachings and ideas of perhaps once godly leaders who had gotten off track or lost their way entirely. This is something that can be stopped by resisting the ungodly enforcement and overstepping of authority that is contrary to God’s Word.

Pg.574
Dever makes some powerful statements in this paragraph, which the Body of Christ really needs to hear and I say that as one who is in the five-fold ministry. I am going to quote Dever exactly.

“The people even trusted, in the wrong way, the good gifts that God gave them—their own leaders, for instance. When the leaders’ plans differed from God’s plans, the people should have demonstrated whom they truly trusted by refusing to follow their leaders into disobedience (see 3:1-3, 14). But they didn’t; they followed their leaders.”

“Whenever God’s appointed leader takes the people of God away from God’s ways, we must not follow him. Our primary allegiance must remain with God.”

Pg.574
Dever makes the point that we are often tempted to put our trust in wrong things both as individuals and as a corporate body.

Pg.574
The author calls for us to examine what motives us in life. What our true goals, ambitions, and purposes are for our life. Then he ask us to honestly answer how we are expecting to accomplish those ends, what or whom we are trusting in to bring them about in our lives.

Pg.574
Dever states for a corporate body, a local congregation, their idols might be the numbers of people walking through the door each week or the figures that make up the sum total of the church’s funds. I can tell you from observations that ministries and churches are often the idols of spiritual leaders.

Pg.574
Dever makes a simply, yet profound, statement on this page. That God alone is worthy of our trust. This is true beyond the ability to describe in words.

Pg.577
The author asserts that God alone should be trusted because it is God who will bring judgment and it is God who will bring (has brought) deliverance and salvation.

Pg.580
Dever rightfully states that no one else has the righteousness and moral purity of God. Just as no one else is as loving as God is. He goes on to state that one of the most striking things about God is the tenacity of His love for His unfaithful people.

Pg.581 and 584
The author notes that the people’s hopes in the time of Isaiah’s life needed to be in the coming Messiah, Jesus, just as our hope should be in the Messiah who has came and bought our redemption with His blood. Jesus fulfilled Isaiah 61 - Jesus is the King and the Servant. Jesus came for us, for his people. That tenacious love we see exhibited in the Book of Isaiah is the same love Jesus has for us – He created us, knows our hurts, our struggles, our pain, our loves, and our sins – and He loves us wholeheartedly.

Pg. 585
Our hope is found in Jesus. Our hope is grounded in our relationship with Jesus.

Pg.587
Dever concludes with the spiritual truth, “God loves those who put their trust in him, who hope in him, who are guided by him.”

HereIStand has suggested a posting hiatus for Thanksgiving and Christmas, which I fully agree with and am a bit grateful for.

We will resume posting with the next chapter "THE MESSAGE OF JEREMIAH: JUSTICE" on Friday, January 9, 2015.

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving filled with gratitude everyone, a very Merry Christmas in Christ, and a Happy New Year focused on new things from Christ Jesus.

The Message of The Old Testament
Mark Dever
Part 4 – Big Hopes
24 The Message of Jeremiah: Justice - Pages 590-609

Post for January 9th Deadline

Pg.591
Dever points out that whereas we once viewed a human right in America as everyone’s right to believe whatever he or she wished to believe that right has now been replaced with the concept that everybody is right. This took place very subtly over the course of time. However, I am here to state that not everybody is right. God has laid down a Standard of right and wrong in His Word and that is what is right and what is wrong whether we choose to believe it or not.

Pg.592
The author notes that the first forty-five chapters of Jeremiah focuses on justice but it is the justice of God against His own people. Think about that for a moment. Justice more times than not must be satisfied on a spiritual level. God tends to that form of justice.

Pg.593
There is an interesting observation made by Dever that he derived from reading the prophets of the OT. Where you found decay among and around God’s people you found God’s prophets. The same is true today. The prophetic voices we hear among Christianity today rise up out of a faith (Christianity) that is marred with disorder.

Pg.594
We are reminded by Dever of why Jeremiah was called to prophesy in the first place. Jeremiah was called because the people of God had broken their covenant with the Lord, they had forsaken him, and turned to worshipping idols they had made with their own hands. How many of us have worshipped something we got for ourselves over God, if only for a moment or two.

Pg.594
Jeremiah 2:5 is quoted –
Jeremiah 2:5 (NKJV)
Thus says the LORD:
“What injustice have your fathers found in Me,
That they have gone far from Me,
Have followed idols,
And have become idolaters?

Pg. 596
The people of God were at a point where according to Dever their hollow religious worship was something God did not care about receiving. There is some hollow religious worship going on every Sunday all across this land.

Pg.597
A sign of the people’s condition that Dever points to is the fact that God’s Word had become offensive to them. God’s Word is very offensive to many people who call themselves Christians today.

Jeremiah 6:10 (NKJV)
To whom shall I speak and give warning,
That they may hear?
Indeed their ear is uncircumcised,
And they cannot give heed.
Behold, the word of the LORD is a reproach to them;
They have no delight in it.

Jeremiah 6:19–20 (NKJV)
19 Hear, O earth!
Behold, I will certainly bring calamity on this people—
The fruit of their thoughts,
Because they have not heeded My words
Nor My law, but rejected it.
20 For what purpose to Me
Comes frankincense from Sheba,
And sweet cane from a far country?
Your burnt offerings are not acceptable,
Nor your sacrifices sweet to Me.”

Pg.597
Dever points out that when God’s Word becomes offensive to God’s people they begin to pick teachers and prophets who will teach them something else, who will teach them what they want to hear. That is happening all across this land today in church congregations in almost any town you go to and it is one of the root causes of the deterioration of this country – The United States of America.

Jeremiah 5:30–31 (NKJV)
30 “An astonishing and horrible thing
Has been committed in the land:
31 The prophets prophesy falsely,
And the priests rule by their own power;
And My people love to have it so.
But what will you do in the end?

Pg.597
Dever recaps the methods, which God would use to judge His people and bring about holy justice. Among those methods were false prophets, famine, and ultimately God would destroy the nation. Does any of this sound familiar to anyone either than myself?

Pg.599
Dever points to Jeremiah’s famous question, which we all ask at one point or another in life. Why do the wicked prosper? How long will God allow it to continue?

Jeremiah 12:1–4 (NKJV)
Jeremiah’s Question
12 Righteous are You, O LORD, when I plead with You;
Yet let me talk with You about Your judgments.
Why does the way of the wicked prosper?
Why are those happy who deal so treacherously?
2 You have planted them, yes, they have taken root;
They grow, yes, they bear fruit.
You are near in their mouth
But far from their mind.

3 But You, O LORD, know me;
You have seen me,
And You have tested my heart toward You.
Pull them out like sheep for the slaughter,
And prepare them for the day of slaughter.
4 How long will the land mourn,
And the herbs of every field wither?
The beasts and birds are consumed,
For the wickedness of those who dwell there,
Because they said, “He will not see our final end.”

Pg.600
Judgment always begins with God’s people both individually and corporately, as Dever points out.

Pg.602
As Dever notes Jeremiah as a prophet gave the messages God gave him to give. Jeremiah did not invent or generate the messages. Delivering these messages caused him no small amount of consternation and strife.

Pg.605
The author makes us aware that Jeremiah was not employed by any person, state, political party, nor was he part of any operation to undermine his country. Jeremiah was simply God’s spokesperson who spoke God’s Truth in love and judgment to God’s creation. Jeremiah was a prophet of God.

Pg.607
Dever expresses an important spiritual truth on this page and that Truth is that although God’s methods are sometimes hard His purposes are always good.



At the end of the chapters, the author offers some “Questions for Reflection”, I will comment on some of those questions. I have noted the question number on which I am commenting.

Questions for Reflection

1. I have a very strong sense of justice, whether I would call it natural or not would take too long to explain. I have been saved and Holy Ghost filled since I was 11 years old so my spiritual gifts have been with me most of my life. My spiritual gifts and my calling involves compassion and justice strongly therefore, I sense a strong urging for justice and my heart screams at injustice. Watching the news is an emotional ordeal for me, at times I can become so angry (righteous indignation) or distressed or sad.

2. Only God can bring complete justice to any wrong.

3. People are offended by God’s message, as found in His Word, because they are offended by their own sinfulness and offended that God has set a Standard for how people should conduct themselves. People do not view themselves as a sinner in need of a Savior, nor do they view themselves as someone who needs to repent aka change.

4. Materialism is ramped in the Christian community, as so many worship what their hands have made.

7. The only time I get offended by God’s Word is when I do not want to do what God’s Word is instructing me to do and we all have moments like that. If you think you do not, then I need to read you some Scriptures about pride and then you will find you are offended.

8. God’s love ultimately seeks justice for all in all situations.

9. Just as God desires justice, holiness, mercy, and grace a Christian can desire justice, holiness, mercy and grace and it not be a contradiction, both God and His people desire that God’s Holy Justice be fulfilled.

10. We should be very concerned about churches and ministries who are unwilling to offend either members or outsiders with the message and Word of God. Those types of organizations are becoming the norm amid Christianity and those people have in fact apostatized from true devotion to Christ. It is a form of political correctness that has creep into the church and is poisoning it from the inside out.