Resurrection Disproves Pop Culture End Time Teachings

precepts · Oct 31, 2014

Rev20 said:
No one wasted your time. I presented some passages and you chose to look them up without any coercion whatsoever. That action of looking them up, according to your own words, is what wasted your time. Since then my time has been wasted by having to deal with incessant whining.

It was a waste of my time and a disappointment because I knew there was nowhere in scripture saying Christ's resurrected body is different from ours.

.

Rev20 said:
I would have prefered an exegetical analysis, rather than an opinionated sound-byte. But if that is all you have to contribute, I am okay with that.

Exegetical analysis and you can't even comprehend what corruption in the grave is from being raised incorruptible?
.

Rev20 said:
I don't know what (if anything) is wrong with everyone else, but I feel fine.

.

I'm sure you do.

precepts · Oct 31, 2014

Daniel Martinovich said:
I guess it is really to much to ask people to think a little bit about what some one else is saying. to be just a little bit spiritual. Didn't that word "general " as in doctrine of general resurrection stick out just a tiny bit? sigh.
So let me explain why I said general resurrection rather than just resurrection. I'll do so by copying and pasting the first paragraph of my article on the subject.
From the article: Resurrection
The aim of this article is to show the meaning of the word resurrection through its contextual usage in the scripture. That fact that there is resurrection is not controversial amongst professing Christians. The what, when, where, and how's, are controversial. There will be five main points in this article to show that the word resurrection is used to describe different things; and that the meaning of those things are shown in the context of that particular scripture. This as opposed to the idea or "hermeneutic" that seeks to make resurrection a one time future event based on a small number of the scriptures on the subject. There is also no need to go into the Greek words for resurrection, arose, rise, raised ect ect. These are used interchangeably so often to describe the same events it renders it unnecessary. The five points in order will be:
1. That depending on the context of the verses the word resurrection is used to convey the idea that there is immediate life after death that includes a physical body. (Not physical as we know physical, but a physical body none the less.)
2. Again, depending on the context of those scriptures the word resurrection is used to convey the idea of a physical body dying and that same physical body miraculously restored to life as in the case of Lazarus.
3. Or, as the context dictates, that resurrection can mean a physical body dying and that same physical body being restored to life; but then also becoming a "glorified" body like Jesus. This would also include the case of one never dying first but getting a "glorified" body like Elijah.
4. Then resurrection depending on the context is used to describe those who are "dead" in sin yet physically alive, becoming "alive" to God or resurrected. In other words a "spiritual" resurrection that occurs while still in our body.
5. Finally, as the context dictates, a word or a vision of resurrection is used to teach the realities of points #1, #2, #3 or #4. Unfortunately though, like all words or visions from God; there is a natural tendency to interpret them as an event; rather than illustrative language or pictures to describe basic truth.

Your opening post was about having a body and a spirit.

Daniel Martinovich said:

Hebrews 1:7

Click to expand...

Daniel Martinovich said:
And of the angels he says, Who makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. John 4:24 God is a Spirit:...Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection, they do not marry but are as the angels of God in heaven. Rev.22:8 And I John.... fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. 9 Then said he to me, See you do it not: for I am your fellow servant, and of your brothers the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him....
Here we have the fact that God, the angels are spirits. We also have Jesus saying in the resurrection we are like the angels and then in Rev. we have an angel who was once a man. (Which excites me to no ends; if there was some possibility that I might be found worthy to serve in the ministry of the Gospel on this earth even after I die.)
However your assertions of the necessity of a flesh body or a resurrected flesh body to eat, and do other things like walk through walls. There are way to many examples of angels doing all these things. appearing, walking through walls eating. Remember the story of Jesus and two angles appearing before Abraham and him cooking them a meal? How do I know that was Jesus? Because Abraham addressed him directly as Jehovah during the entire conversation. I'm not trying to make a bunch of hay out of this. It's just that a Jesus, and angel or a human being who is also a spirit, who has shed his flesh body, can do lots of things. Even eat a meal.

That was my point in the first place. The resurrected body, Christ being the first resurrected soul/person, isn't a spirit spirit, it's a "quicken" soul, meaning you can become flesh at any time. There's no separation of spirit from flesh afterlife.

Daniel Martinovich said:

Big difference between the word the grave and the dead. I 'm sure that was just a mistake on your part and you didn't purposely try to misquote the scripture to prove your case. Anyway it is the word dead and the context it is being used in is the same as this.

Click to expand...

Daniel Martinovich said:
Matthew 8: But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;
Rev. 1: 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

How does these verses relate to your original post? That was my point.

Rev20 · Oct 31, 2014

precepts said:
It was a waste of my time and a disappointment because I knew there was nowhere in scripture saying Christ's resurrected body is different from ours.

You are still wasting your precious time by telling me I am wasting your precious time. Why do you lower yourself to participate in our conversations, considering how much more important your time is that ours?

I, personally, do not want to waste any more of your precious time, so this is not for you, but for everyone else. My original statement:

"Our resurrections will be different from Christ. His flesh did not suffer corruption. Our flesh does."

The resurrection of Jesus Christ was manifested with a physical, fleshly body, that retained the scars of his crucifixion. He not only resided on earth for a time before ascending to right hand of the Father, but actually sat down and ate with his disciples, fulfilling these prophecies:

"But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom." -- Matt 26:29

"Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God." -- Mark 14:25

"And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God." -- Luke 22:15-16

"For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come." -- Luke 22:18

The fulfillments:

"And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them." -- Luke 24:41-43

"And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead." -- Acts 10:39-41

A carefull reading of those and neighboring verses also indicate that Christ inherited the kingdom of God while still in the flesh:

"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." -- Luke 24:39

But our flesh has no such capability, since it experiences corruption. There is nowhere in the scripture, that I am aware of, that states we will be resurrected retaining our scars, missing limbs, bodies burnt to a crisp, etc., or even our flesh. This is what is written:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit." -- John 12:24

"For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:" -- 1Pet 1:24

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." -- 1Cor 15:50

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." -- 1Cor 15:44

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" -- Heb 9:27

Therefore, I stand by my original statement:

"Our resurrections will be different from Christ. His flesh did not suffer corruption. Our flesh does."

.

n2thelight · Oct 31, 2014

Originally Posted by precepts
It was a waste of my time and a disappointment because I knew there was nowhere in scripture saying Christ's resurrected body is different from ours.

His was very much different from ours,His could'nt see corruption

Try the study from the below link

What the Bible Says about

Excerpt

What about Jesus' Body?

Jesus' resurrection shows the pattern which ours will follow, yet there must also be a difference. Some have thought that we will rise with our physical bodies because Jesus rose with His. But if leaving behind the physical body makes us different from Christ, staying in the grave for centuries would make our resurrection even less like His.

Jesus repeatedly told His disciples that He would rise on the third day (Matthew 16:21; 17:23; 20:19; 27:63; Luke 9:22; 18:33; 24:7; 24:46; Mark 8:31), and Scripture also shows that what is true of Him in this case will also be true of us. "After two days will He revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight" (Hosea 6:2). "Today you will be with Me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). At the same time, Jesus taught that for the rest of us the spirit would rise without the body when He said, "A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have" (Luke 24:39).

The Graves Opened and the Dead Appearing

After Jesus rose from the tomb, the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (Matthew 27:52-53). This passage is not explicit. Were their physical bodies raised, or their spiritual bodies? How long had they been "sleeping"--centuries, or just a few days? What happened to those saints afterwards? Where are they now? Does the holy city mean the Jerusalem in this world, or the new Jerusalem in heaven (Revelation 21:2; 22:19)? This passage clearly shows that the Lord's resurrection brings resurrection to others, but it does not give us any reason to expect centuries of sleep before our resurrection.

Eternal Life Has Begun

Eternal life is not something that is waiting for us in the distant future. There is no reason to think that we have to wait for a long time, for Jesus tells us that for those who accept the life He gives, the kingdom of heaven is already within them (Luke 17:21), and they have already begun living eternally (John 5:24, 17:2, 1 John 5: 11, 12, 20). That life is not interrupted by death, but rather becomes more abundant and complete.

precepts · Nov 1, 2014

n2thelight's quote:

His was very much different from ours,His could'nt see corruption

Try the study from the below link

And what does corruption mean? Corruption, as I explained to Rev 20, means rotting. Christ didn't see corruption because his body didn't rot in the grave. That's why we are raised with uncorruptable bodies, bodies that don't agem die, or rot.

n2thelight's quote:

What the Bible Says about

Excerpt

What about Jesus' Body?

Jesus' resurrection shows the pattern which ours will follow, yet there must also be a difference. Some have thought that we will rise with our physical bodies because Jesus rose with His. But if leaving behind the physical body makes us different from Christ, staying in the grave for centuries would make our resurrection even less like His.

This opinion is not scripture or scriptural.

n2thelight's quote:

Jesus repeatedly told His disciples that He would rise on the third day (Matthew 16:21; 17:23; 20:19; 27:63; Luke 9:22; 18:33; 24:7; 24:46; Mark 8:31), and Scripture also shows that what is true of Him in this case will also be true of us. "After two days will He revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight" (Hosea 6:2). "Today you will be with Me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). At the same time, Jesus taught that for the rest of us the spirit would rise without the body when He said, "A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have" (Luke 24:39).

How does the flesh rise from the body when he quotes Christ saying a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones as he has?

n2thelight's quote:

The Graves Opened and the Dead Appearing

Click to expand...

After Jesus rose from the tomb, the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (Matthew 27:52-53). This passage is not explicit. Were their physical bodies raised, or their spiritual bodies? How long had they been "sleeping"--centuries, or just a few days? What happened to those saints afterwards? Where are they now? Does the holy city mean the Jerusalem in this world, or the new Jerusalem in heaven (Revelation 21:2; 22:19)? This passage clearly shows that the Lord's resurrection brings resurrection to others, but it does not give us any reason to expect centuries of sleep before our resurrection.

A scripture that contradicts Revelation's account of the 1st resurrection.

n2thelight's quote:

Eternal Life Has Begun

Eternal life is not something that is waiting for us in the distant future. There is no reason to think that we have to wait for a long time, for Jesus tells us that for those who accept the life He gives, the kingdom of heaven is already within them (Luke 17:21), and they have already begun living eternally (John 5:24, 17:2, 1 John 5: 11, 12, 20). That life is not interrupted by death, but rather becomes more abundant and complete.

I think you should read for yourself.

Daniel Martinovich · Nov 1, 2014

precepts said:
Your opening post was about having a body and a spirit..

My opening post was about immediate life after the death of the flesh body and that is called resurrection by the scripture.

precepts said:
That was my point in the first place. The resurrected body, Christ being the first resurrected soul/person, isn't a spirit spirit, it's a "quicken" soul, meaning you can become flesh at any time. There's no separation of spirit from flesh afterlife.

Well you did it again. misquoted the scripture to prove you teaching is correct. Now I am starting to be suspicious.1 Co.15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Jesus was made a quickening spirit not a quickening "soul." Besides this is getting a little comical. What makes you think a person who is a spirit combined with those who are found worthy to walk in the powers of the next life can't become "flesh" in appearance anytime he wants? the angels and Jehovah certainly do and they are spirits.

precepts said:
Originally Posted by Daniel Martinovich
Big difference between the word the grave and the dead. I 'm sure that was just a mistake on your part and you didn't purposely try to misquote the scripture to prove your case. Anyway it is the word dead and the context it is being used in is the same as this.
Originally Posted by Daniel Martinovich
Matthew 8: But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;
Rev. 1: 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
How does these verses relate to your original post? That was my point.

Because you said :In acts Peter said Jesus the firstborn from the "grave." I said you misquoted it. It's the firstborn from the dead. Then I gave you the meaning of: The firstborn from the dead" by using a scripture from among many that points out all men are "dead" in sin. It is not referring to Jesus flesh body being the first born or first resurrected.

Daniel Martinovich · Nov 1, 2014

Ronald said:
Daniel,
There is only one point. We are to be resurrected as Jesus was. His body was gone, the tomb was empty and his former body was translated into an eternal spiritual body, which can take on a physical form to function in out physical realm (they touched him and ate with him); but also a spiritual form able to appear and disappear, walk through walls and ascend into a spiritual heaven. It is a multi-dimensional eternal body. Some saw Him and did not recognize him. He kept the scars but the rest was new. So shall our bodies be transformed at that time when the last trumpet blows.
When we die our spirits go to Christ and those spirits are waiting in heaven for redemption. "And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. "Acts 7:59
"Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 1Cor. 15:51, 52
That means all Christians will be resurrected at once _ dead or alive _ when He returns!.

Except for the fact that Jesus used the word resurrected to describe Abraham Isaac an Jacobs present state before Christ died...and when our flesh body dies guess what? In the twinkling of an eye, we have our spiritual body....that can do all those things you said Jesus did in what you call his "combo flesh\spirit" body as evidenced by angels doing them throughout the Bible before the event you call "the" resurrection. Has nothing to do with flesh bodies my friend. 1st Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. (Not a hybrid flesh\spirit body)There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (Not a hybrid spirit\flesh heavenly being) 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Ronald said:
I said:
1. That depending on the context of the verses the word resurrection is used to convey the idea that there is immediate life after death that includes a physical body. (Not physical as we know physical, but a physical body none the less.)
You answered:
We do not die spiritually but we await redemption. Everyone written in the book of life will experience this one time event and then the world will experience the wrath of the seven bowls..

Who said anything about us dyeing spiritually? Not me that is for sure. How can you read that sentence that way? I wonder and why am I arguing with a man that reads that that way. What a waste of time.

Ronald said:
I said:
2. Again, depending on the context of those scriptures the word resurrection is used to convey the idea of a physical body dying and that same physical body miraculously restored to life as in the case of Lazarus.
You answered:
No, this is a flawed idea. Lazarus was not resurrected with a new body. He was resuscitated. Jesus had not yet resurrected. Jesus opened the door to the resurrection FIRST. Lazarus did not have an eternal body and died again.

No, you just failed you 8th grade literature test and then tried to justify it by calling it a flawed idea. The Greek words for resurrection, rise, and rose are used interchangeably to describe different things. Their meaning depends on the context. Same way we use the English language. Your just trying to make every single time the Bible uses those words fit into you hermeneutic and they don't. First off Lazarus was dead longer than Jesus. Second off Lazarus's flesh body was resurrected and so was Jesus's. Jesus did not get "a new" flesh body. His flesh body was physically resurrected (orthodox Christian belief by the way.) Jesus flesh body was however changed in the twinkling of an eye at a later time. John 20:17 Jesus said unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. So after Jesus was resurrected in the exact same manner Lazarus was. He was then what some called "raptured"

Ronald said:
I said:
3. Or, as the context dictates, that resurrection can mean a physical body dying and that same physical body being restored to life; but then also becoming a "glorified" body like Jesus. This would also include the case of one never dying first but getting a "glorified" body like Elijah
You answered:
The first part is correct, but it hasn't happened yet. Elijah didn't die, he was taken up, which is why Enoch and him may return as the TWO WITNESSES who come back and evangelize the 144,000 Jews during the GT. They will be killed, lay in the street for 3 1/2 days and then be resurrected. That may very well be the time of the resurrection?.

True, he didn't die, he was raptured.

Ronald said:
I said:
4. Then resurrection depending on the context is used to describe those who are "dead" in sin yet physically alive, becoming "alive" to God or resurrected. In other words a "spiritual" resurrection that occurs while still in our body.
You answered:
True, being born again is a spiritual resurrection.

Yet you probably don't understand that resurrection is only being used here as an illustration of something.......and....this is the first resurrection of revelation. Just like being dead in sin is only an illustration of a person being separated or "dead" to God and "alive to his flesh" Resurrection illustrates becoming reconciled to God and alive to him and dyeing to the flesh. :preach:

Ronald said:
In the OT, believers souls went to Abrahams bosom, a Paradise. Jesus said to the man next to him, today you will be in paradise. Salvation was imputed to them (outside of time, a physical dimension) or so to speak. Yes, they were alive, but not with resurrected bodies ... all the graves are still full. .

Well Jesus used the word resurrection to describe this. I don't think he was mistaken but I know you are. The graves? Dude, they don't even exist anymore. No bones, they have become the soil that feeds the plants. In the wet places like southern Louisiana. The bones are gone in a year. Nothing left at all. Please...

precepts · Nov 1, 2014

Daniel Martinovich said:
My opening post was about immediate life after the death of the flesh body and that is called resurrection by the scripture.

Immediate life after death can never be called resurrection because resurrections have set times.

We are heading right back to my original point. You not knowing Christ is the first begotten from the dead.

Daniel Martinovich said:
Originally Posted by precepts:

That was my point in the first place. The resurrected body, Christ being the first resurrected soul/person, isn't a spirit spirit, it's a "quicken" soul, meaning you can become flesh at any time. There's no separation of spirit from flesh afterlife.

Click to expand...

Well you did it again. misquoted the scripture to prove you teaching is correct.

But I didn't quote any scripture.

Daniel Martinovich said:
Now I am starting to be suspicious.

Suspicious about what? You're the one contradicting well know doctrines.

Daniel Martinovich said:
1 Co.15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Jesus was made a quickening spirit not a quickening "soul." Besides this is getting a little comical. What makes you think a person who is a spirit combined with those who are found worthy to walk in the powers of the next life can't become "flesh" in appearance anytime he wants? the angels and Jehovah certainly do and they are spirits.

You're the one claiming at death a spirit is separated from the body. There's nothing in the verses you're quoting that justifies what you said; instead it justifies what I said. The resurrected body is the flesh quickened like a spirit, but like Christ when he appeared to his disciples and they thought he was a spirit, told them to feel his flesh and blood.

Daniel Martinovich said:
Because you said :In acts Peter said Jesus the firstborn from the "grave." I said you misquoted it. It's the firstborn from the dead. Then I gave you the meaning of: The firstborn from the dead" by using a scripture from among many that points out all men are "dead" in sin. It is not referring to Jesus flesh body being the first born or first resurrected.

Yes, it was a misquote.

Interplanner · Nov 2, 2014

The "firstborn from the dead" is not about the mechanics of soul, body, etc. after death. It is that Christ's indestructible life had to be raised/retrieved from the penalty of death because he was as perfect as God who is everlasting. Christ's righteousness was honored by being brought back (the reason for tasting death was not in him but in our sins). It is therefore not very useful when trying to explain what happens to the rest of us. All it provides is the reason why we will be raised, not the mechanics, about which the apostles were scarcely interested.

Ronald · Nov 2, 2014

Daniel Martinovich;66561162]Except for the fact that Jesus used the word resurrected to describe Abraham Isaac an Jacobs present state before Christ died...and when our flesh body dies guess what? In the twinkling of an eye, we have our spiritual body....that can do all those things you said Jesus did in what you call his "combo flesh\spirit" body as evidenced by angels doing them throughout the Bible before the event you call "the" resurrection. Has nothing to do with flesh bodies my friend.

OK, we'll see.

n2thelight · Nov 3, 2014

precepts said:
And what does corruption mean? Corruption, as I explained to Rev 20, means rotting. Christ didn't see corruption because his body didn't rot in the grave. That's why we are raised with uncorruptable bodies, bodies that don't agem die, or rot.

This opinion is not scripture or scriptural.

How does the flesh rise from the body when he quotes Christ saying a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones as he has?

A scripture that contradicts Revelation's account of the 1st resurrection.

I think you should read for yourself.

Always read for myself,and there is no scripture in the Word that says the flesh will rise,quite the contrary,the flesh returns back to dust from whence it came...........

Did not Paul explain it to you?Did he not say we have two bodies?

precepts · Nov 4, 2014

n2thelight said:
Always read for myself,and there is no scripture in the Word that says the flesh will rise,quite the contrary,the flesh returns back to dust from whence it came...........

Did not Paul explain it to you?Did he not say we have two bodies?

I like the way you ignored my replies.

We are not a spirit living inside a body. It's the body that rises uncorruptible:

Eze 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
Eze 37:2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
Eze 37:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
Eze 37:4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Eze 37:5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
Eze 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
Eze 37:8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
Eze 37:9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
Eze 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
Eze 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Is this not a resurrection?

n2thelight · Nov 4, 2014

precepts said:
I like the way you ignored my replies.

We are not a spirit living inside a body. It's the body that rises uncorruptible:

Is this not a resurrection?

That's not what scripture says.........

I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"(You)

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

How many do you see in the above?????

precepts · Nov 5, 2014

n2thelight said:
That's not what scripture says.........

I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"(You)

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

How many do you see in the above?????

Maybe if you had answered my question, you would of have gotten your answer. Is any verse greater than any other verse?

Is Eze 37 not a resurrection? and if it is, what part of the process of a resurrection is it? That is your answer.

I have never disputed the fact the resurrected body is spiritual, but I have disputed the fact it's not a spirit which Eze 37 proves.

You're straining on the gnat and swallowing the camel whole. The resurrected body isn't a spirit or soul that dwelt in the body/flesh. Eze 37 proves this.

It's stupid for anyone to think the resurrected body is an earthly one when Christ specifically stated flesh and blood couldn't inherit the kingdom. Our body still has to go thru the process in Eze 37 to put on incorruptablity.

I already explained the resurrected body is one like when Christ appeared to his disciples when they were locked in the upper room, one like when he appeared to them and ate food. That's the resurrected body, not a spirit.

We do not have a spirit living in our fleshly body that lives on after death. That is folly, and the reason why we have resurrections in the 1st place.

n2thelight · Nov 5, 2014

precepts said:
Maybe if you had answered my question, you would of have gotten your answer. Is any verse greater than any other verse?

Is Eze 37 not a resurrection? and if it is, what part of the process of a resurrection is it? That is your answer.

I have never disputed the fact the resurrected body is spiritual, but I have disputed the fact it's not a spirit which Eze 37 proves.

You're straining on the gnat and swallowing the camel whole. The resurrected body isn't a spirit or soul that dwelt in the body/flesh. Eze 37 proves this.

It's stupid for anyone to think the resurrected body is an earthly one when Christ specifically stated flesh and blood couldn't inherit the kingdom. Our body still has to go thru the process in Eze 37 to put on incorruptablity.

I already explained the resurrected body is one like when Christ appeared to his disciples when they were locked in the upper room, one like when he appeared to them and ate food. That's the resurrected body, not a spirit.

We do not have a spirit living in our fleshly body that lives on after death. That is folly, and the reason why we have resurrections in the 1st place.

Ezekiel 37 is not a resurrection,the dry bones refer to the House of Israel

Ezekiel 37:11 "Then He said unto me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts."

You are correct flesh and blood can't enter into the house of God,Ive never said It did...........

Ecclesiastes 12:6 "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern."

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."

The spirit is the intellect of the soul, that gives the soul its identity. This is not complicated. When the body dies, and goes to the grave, the physical body will never have a use again, for the soul has returned to the Father, to God who created it in the first place. Because this is a promise of God, it should be what all Christians look forward to all the days of their lives. That is the day that we will be with the Father and Jesus Christ is heaven, not at some distant time in the future.

We don't have a spirit we are a spirit,which is housed in the flesh until death or the return of Christ,whichever happens first,Paul told you that...........

I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

Paul is now going to tell us what happens and we bury them in the ground. Pay attention so that you will understand and there will be no confusion. So if you believe in the resurrection, than how does it happen? Where does it take place, and with what body does the dead rise?

We are talking about the physical body and it's change. In other words, what happens to the flesh after death, and the soul after it has departed from the body?

I Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:"

I Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:"

Paul is comparing our flesh body with other living things, such as a grain of wheat. When the seed is separated from its parent plant it is as naked as a new born baby. This is the body of the wheat, and this is not the grain that you see coming for in new plants next year. This seed of wheat that you set aside for the next years crop is what must die before it can raise up again in a new form. That body of wheat is gone, and that is what happens to our flesh. It must die before the new beautiful spiritual body can come forth.

The flesh body must die and be buried in the ground, for no where is it recorded that a flesh body will resurrect from the dead. Christ's body did rise again, for it paid the price for our sins for one and all times. However, when Christ's body came out of the tomb, it had to be transfigured or flesh man simply could not see Him.

The body of the wheat or of flesh that dies and is planted in the ground is not the same body that springs forth into new life. It is the Spiritual body that ascends to be with the Father, not the flesh.

The instant that the flesh body dies, the soul and spirit body is present with the Lord that gave it in the first place. The flesh decays back into the elements of the earth that it is made of, and your soul returns to the Father. Paul could not have made it more simpler than the using of a grain of wheat in comparison to our flesh bodies. Just as all of nature functions, so it is with man.

precepts · Nov 6, 2014

n2thelight said:
Ezekiel 37 is not a resurrection,the dry bones refer to the House of Israel

Ezekiel 37:11 "Then He said unto me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts."

Once again with the rebellion. It's impossible for you not to of read the next three verses.

Eze 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Click to expand...

You can't deny the truth, but it's obvious you are trying.

n2thelight said:

You are correct flesh and blood can't enter into the house of God,Ive never said It did...........

Click to expand...

And I never said you said it did!

n2thelight said:

Ecclesiastes 12:6 "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern."

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."

The spirit is the intellect of the soul, that gives the soul its identity. This is not complicated. When the body dies, and goes to the grave, the physical body will never have a use again, for the soul has returned to the Father, to God who created it in the first place. Because this is a promise of God, it should be what all Christians look forward to all the days of their lives. That is the day that we will be with the Father and Jesus Christ is heaven, not at some distant time in the future.

Click to expand...

The "spirit" is the breathe of God! It's not our soul or being; it's God's breathe.

Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

n2thelight said:

We don't have a spirit we are a spirit,which is housed in the flesh until death or the return of Christ,whichever happens first,Paul told you that..........

Click to expand...

n2thelight said:

I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

Click to expand...

You would think your problem is reading comprehension, but it's not. It's rebellion. We do not have a spirit dwelling in us. What gives us life is God's breathe. When God's breathe is taken away, we die. The breathe, what you are calling the "spirit," goes back to God. Mortal death is sleeping in the dust until the resurrection (Eze 37), when the spirit of God re-enters our fleshy rebuilt bodies as in Eze 37. We do not have a spirit that goes straight to God after death.

Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Click to expand...

n2thelight said:

Paul is now going to tell us what happens and we bury them in the ground. Pay attention so that you will understand and there will be no confusion. So if you believe in the resurrection, than how does it happen? Where does it take place, and with what body does the dead rise?

Click to expand...

n2thelight said:

We are talking about the physical body and it's change. In other words, what happens to the flesh after death, and the soul after it has departed from the body?

I Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:"

I Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:"

Paul is comparing our flesh body with other living things, such as a grain of wheat. When the seed is separated from its parent plant it is as naked as a new born baby. This is the body of the wheat, and this is not the grain that you see coming for in new plants next year. This seed of wheat that you set aside for the next years crop is what must die before it can raise up again in a new form. That body of wheat is gone, and that is what happens to our flesh. It must die before the new beautiful spiritual body can come forth.

The flesh body must die and be buried in the ground, for no where is it recorded that a flesh body will resurrect from the dead. Christ's body did rise again, for it paid the price for our sins for one and all times. However, when Christ's body came out of the tomb, it had to be transfigured or flesh man simply could not see Him.

Click to expand...

Eze 37 is a bodily resurrection. I have proven we have no spirit. The spirit that returns to God is his spirit. What you are claiming is foolishness, taking texts out of context.

n2thelight said:

The body of the wheat or of flesh that dies and is planted in the ground is not the same body that springs forth into new life. It is the Spiritual body that ascends to be with the Father, not the flesh.

Click to expand...

Once again with the rebelliousness. We already discussed the fact flesh and blood can not inheriting the kingdom. So, why are you bring it up again? Why are you implying that that's what I'm saying? You are just being redundant and rebellious.

n2thelight said:

The instant that the flesh body dies, the soul and spirit body is present with the Lord that gave it in the first place. The flesh decays back into the elements of the earth that it is made of, and your soul returns to the Father. Paul could not have made it more simpler than the using of a grain of wheat in comparison to our flesh bodies. Just as all of nature functions, so it is with man.

Click to expand...

You're not that ignorant, friend. It's a free country, a free world. You can say and do anything you want, regardless of the facts, but I know you're not that ignorant.

Trees are known by their fruits, friend. :pray:

n2thelight · Nov 6, 2014

Precept

You're not that ignorant, friend. It's a free country, a free world. You can say and do anything you want, regardless of the facts, but I know you're not that ignorant.

Trees are known by their fruits, friend.

Far from it

Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

These souls were killed for their stand in the Word of God. Who could that be? The saints of God, for their souls are now at [not under] the altar of God in heaven. Those souls have died and are with the Father in Heaven.

Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord [Master], holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."

I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,"

These people were who?

Scripture dos'nt teach what you say........

I take it you believe in soul sleep,anyway,believe as you will...........

The flesh will never ever be used nor needed again,period

Midst · Nov 6, 2014

Daniel Martinovich said:
The doctrine of general resurrection is an easy to understand example of what is wrong with pop culture end time prophecy teachings. It clearly shows how people misunderstand the nature of the illustrations Bible prophecy uses. The Biblical doctrine of general resurrection is that there is immediate bodily\physical life after death. Not physical as we know physical , that is flesh, but physical nonetheless. We are a spiritual beings that have spiritual bodies just like the angels but that live inside, and, are connected to a flesh body. When we put off these flesh bodies we, will immediately go to our destinies of heaven or hell.
That is general resurrection and is a doctrine taught in the Bible in opposition to the many false teachings like reincarnation, materialism, annihilation, soul sleep and yes, a future event called "the" resurrection where God uses the molecules of dust our flesh bodies became to make new bodies with.
This is so clear that most Christians intuitively believe it already despite the confusing false teachings they sort of accept about a one or two time future event called "the" resurrection tied to their Bible prophecy teachings. Here is a very short, very easy to read article that goes over the scriptures that teach this if your interested.
Resurrection

Not big on having to go offsite to read anything.

I am not sure what doctrine you are hitting at here. It is true that the whole point of being a Christian is that we have new, eternal bodies. Exactly as what was seen on the Mount of Transfiguration. In fact, that transfiguration was pointed out as "seeing the coming of the Kingdom of God".

That glory is the rapture spoken of, that is the change Paul spoke of.

precepts · Nov 7, 2014

n2thelight said:
Far from it

Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

These souls were killed for their stand in the Word of God. Who could that be? The saints of God, for their souls are now at [not under] the altar of God in heaven. Those souls have died and are with the Father in Heaven.

Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord [Master], holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."

This is the first resurrection. You lack understanding big time.

n2thelight said:
I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,"

These people were who?

Not everything written in scripture is of God. There's no life after death until the resurrections. That's a fact.

You haven't provided any verses proving ascendsion after death; and on the contrary, I have provided a verse proving the spirit returning to God is God's spirit, his breathe, not our souls. Our souls are our self being, not a spirit.

n2thelight said:
Scripture dos'nt teach what you say........

I take it you believe in soul sleep,anyway,believe as you will...........

The flesh will never ever be used nor needed again,period

You are not for real. I have provided a verse proving the spirit returning to God after death is God's spirit/breathe. Facts proving resurrection consists of the reassembling of flesh and sinew from the dust etc. Plus numerous verses referring to mortal death as sleep. Yet you come back with the same long winded replies, ignoring the facts. You are not that ignorant.

iamlamad · Nov 7, 2014

precepts said:
This is the first resurrection. You lack understanding big time.

Not everything written in scripture is of God. There's no life after death until the resurrections. That's a fact.

You haven't provided any verses proving ascendsion after death; and on the contrary, I have provided a verse proving the spirit returning to God is God's spirit, his breathe, not our souls. Our souls are our self being, not a spirit.

You are not for real. I have provided a verse proving the spirit returning to God after death is God's spirit/breathe. Facts proving resurrection consists of the reassembling of flesh and sinew from the dust etc. Plus numerous verses referring to mortal death as sleep. Yet you come back with the same long winded replies, ignoring the facts. You are not that ignorant.

It is amazing how anyone who disagrees with you "lacks understanding."

May I suggest you go and read the story of the rich man and lazarus? You will find out the TRUTH: man is a SPIRIT and at death the SPIRIT with the soul leaves the body. In the old days, before Jesus rose - as in the story of the rich man and Lazarus, both went DOWN towards the center of the earth. But they went to separate places. Please note that both were VERY MUCH alive, which blows your theory all to - well, after all, we are talking about hell, or Hades: the place of departed Spirits. There was a great gulf fixed between where Lazarus was and where the rich man was. There was no fire where Lazarus was, while the fire was torturing the rich man. Please also note that they could SEE and THINK and REMEMBER.

I would advise you to ALWAYS take the words of Jesus versus the words of Solomon. Jesus always spoke what He heard the Father say. Solomon wrote in his human wisdom.

Resurrection Disproves Pop Culture End Time Teachings

Newbie

Newbie

Partial Preterist

n2thelight

Guest

Newbie

Friend

Friend

Newbie

Newbie

Exhortations

n2thelight

Guest

Newbie

n2thelight

Guest

Newbie

n2thelight

Guest

Newbie

n2thelight

Guest

Mystify Me

Newbie

Lamad

Similar threads