The Morality of Heaven and Hell (2)

biggles53 · Aug 26, 2014

stevevw said:
Because God didnt condone slavery and that is not the moral code that was what God wanted. These are stories about what life was like and how humans behaved as well. About how God worked with people in that context. But nowhere in the bible does God condone slavery.

Now you're scrambling again...

You know very well that there are many specific verses which indicate that slaves may be taken, the conditions under which they can be taken, the manner in which they become property that can be passed down and even the degree to which they can be be beaten....these entries appear in both the Old and New Testaments....please don't make yourself look foolish by denying this....it is too easily shown...

Now, can you please indicate the verses wherein your god states that it is NOT permissible to take slaves...? You won't find them Steve....

So here we have it....people like you would say that you look to the Bible for moral guidance, and yet here is a very stark example of where your moral code is in precisely the OPPOSITE direction of that stated in the Bible...

So I ask again....why would you look to a book for your morals,when the code it conveys is so obviously at odds with what you know to be right...?

biggles53 · Aug 26, 2014

stevevw said:
The other thing about slavery in the old testament is God did get rid of it and Jesus came and was a fulfillment of the laws. One of the greatest commandments and one in which I use as my moral code for how I treat others comes from Jesus the Son of God. Do unto others as you would want them to do to you. So the moral code of God is very up to date and one of the greatest ways to live life.

Again, please show where slavery was 'gotten rid of'...? You are losing the argument really badly here Steve, I wouldn't go down this path...

"Slaves obey your masters"......who said those words Steve...?

stevevw · Aug 26, 2014

Speaking about not answering posts. What about the bible verses I posted before about the same God you are trying to paint as hateful and cruel. What do you think of those. Why didn't you ever mention those to be fair if you are trying to have a balanced view. Or are you only interested in the so called juicy bad ones you have fixated on.

Our God, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, You are a gracious and compassionate God who keeps loving kindness and in Your great compassion does not forsake. (Nehemiah 9:31-32)

The Lord is gracious and merciful; Patient and great in loving kindness. The Lord is good to all, and His mercies are over all His works. (Psalm 145:8-9)

All the paths of the Lord are loving kindness and truth (Psalm 25:10)[/quote]

biggles53 · Aug 26, 2014

stevevw said:
Speaking about not answering posts. What about the bible verses I posted before about the same God you are trying to paint as hateful and cruel. What do you think of those. Why didn't you ever mention those to be fair if you are trying to have a balanced view. Or are you only interested in the so called juicy bad ones you have fixated on.

Our God, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, You are a gracious and compassionate God who keeps loving kindness and in Your great compassion does not forsake. (Nehemiah 9:31-32)

The Lord is gracious and merciful; Patient and great in loving kindness. The Lord is good to all, and His mercies are over all His works. (Psalm 145:8-9)

All the paths of the Lord are loving kindness and truth (Psalm 25:10)

[/QUOTE]

No Steve.....you're not going to get away with it again....face up to the question, without trying to hand-wave your way out of it...

Why do you look to a book with outdated moral pronouncements to develop YOUR moral code...?

stevevw · Aug 26, 2014

biggles53 said:
Again, please show where slavery was 'gotten rid of'...? You are losing the argument really badly here Steve, I wouldn't go down this path...

"Slaves obey your masters"......who said those words Steve...?

Click to expand...

Jesus was merely stating that this was to be the proper behaviour for a practice that was already happening. But remember many slaves had chosen to be in that situation. They were there to pay off debt s there was no money and it gave them food and a roof over their head. But if you look at Jesus He was saying that He was coming to be a servant Himself to mankind. It was a sign of humility and showing obedience the same as we should do for God. But today people cant understand that because people are difiant and want everything their way. They dont want to be told what to do and are rebellious.

I dont think I have lost anything. Maybe in your mind you think you have won something whatever that is. I didn't realize it was a game. I know God is a loving God and its way more than what you are trying to state. Its way more than words on a page and is evidenced in my life. Like I said I have a great set of morals and they come from the same God through Jesus Christ. He is the way the truth and the life.

God had rules for slavery and knew it was happening. But it was a man made practice and God was merely dealing with what was already happening. He said that owners should let their slaves go after 7 years of service. But some slaves wanted to stay because they had grown to love their masters and they were treated well. This became a way of life in those days and its how some survived.
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stevevw · Aug 26, 2014

Thats the same as Who said these words.
“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” We could go on counter claiming for a long time. I'm enjoying this.

stevevw · Aug 26, 2014

No Steve.....you're not going to get away with it again....face up to the question, without trying to hand-wave your way out of it...

What do you mean hand wave. These are the core beliefs of a christian. They are the most important things in the bible.

Why do you look to a book with outdated moral pronouncements to develop YOUR moral code...?

But I look to Jesus that is the core of a christian belief. That is the most important component of a christian belief. Do you want me to abandon the most important belief in Christianity. That is like treating the crucifixion of Jesus as trivial. This is the main message in the gospel. Why do you think Jesus came. Are you asking me to not believe and following Jesus.

This is how we are saved. Otherwise you are asking me to give up my salvation.
John 3.16
16 “For hGod so loved ithe world,9 jthat he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not kperish but have eternal life.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the old testament law right. This is taught over and over again in the new testament. Yes or no can you answer that for me.
Romans 10:4
For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.

The only way we can come to God is through Jesus right. That is another main teaching.
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

So to know Jesus the Son of God is to know God and its the only way. Otherwise we are not saved. Are you asking me to give up my salvation now. I have said many many times that Jesus is the way to God and its the only way. Thats why He came and was crucified.

Colossians 1:15
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
John 8.58
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, aI am.
John 1:14 says that “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh.

So these verses from the same bible are the core beliefs of Christians today. Are you now choosing what way Christians should follow God. Are you asking me to reject the core beliefs of Christianity.

stevevw · Aug 26, 2014

By the way you are still ignoring the verses I posted. It seems you can acknowledge the so called bad ones you have homed in on. But you cant bring yourself to acknowledge any of the ones that show that same God in a good and loving light. So which is it which have you decided to choose and focus on. A God of hate or a God of love.

Aldebaran · Aug 26, 2014

biggles53 said:
Again, please show where slavery was 'gotten rid of'...? You are losing the argument really badly here Steve, I wouldn't go down this path...

"Slaves obey your masters"......who said those words Steve...?

Aren't slaves supposed to obey their masters? Is it supposed to be the other way around???

Employees, obey your supervisor.
Children, obey your parents.
Wives, obey your husband.

I don't see the problem here. It doesn't seem like a biggie to me, Biggles.

Skavau · Aug 26, 2014

Aldebaran said:
Aren't slaves supposed to obey their masters? Is it supposed to be the other way around???

Employees, obey your supervisor.
Children, obey your parents.
Wives, obey your husband.

I don't see the problem here. It doesn't seem like a biggie to me, Biggles.

You endorse the part in bold? Is the reverse true?

Husbands, obey your wives.

Aldebaran · Aug 26, 2014

Skavau said:
You endorse the part in bold? Is the reverse true?

Husbands, obey your wives.

Nope! Wife obey me or I flog her! Mongo drag wife by hair out of cave and feed her to dragon!

Skavau · Aug 26, 2014

Aldebaran said:
Nope! Wife obey me or I flog her! Mongo drag wife by hair out of cave and feed her to dragon!

So you're not going to answer seriously, you're just going to troll.

Aldebaran · Aug 26, 2014

Skavau said:
So you're not going to answer seriously, you're just going to troll.

What? Skavau have no sense of humor?

Skavau · Aug 26, 2014

Aldebaran said:
What? Skavau have no sense of humor?

I have a sense of humour - it is just of note that your petulance is boring.

People ask you questions related to statements you make and their either get a dismissive "You wouldn't understand" kind of response or they get puerile trolling.

Also Sub-Forum Rules:

Trolling

Trolling is intentionally disrupting a thread by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the clear intention of provoking other members into an emotional response. Please do not troll. Calling another member a "troll" would be a violation of the flaming rule (calling them a derogatory name).

Aldebaran · Aug 26, 2014

Skavau said:
I have a sense of humour - it is just of note that your petulance is boring.

People ask you questions related to statements you make and their either get a dismissive "You wouldn't understand" kind of response or they get puerile trolling.

Also Sub-Forum Rules:

Boy are we a bit testy today. Perhaps you should read all of the rules. Here's one you've probably violated at least a dozen times if I were to look back at our previous conversations:

Blasphemy
It is considered blasphemy to insult or mock Christianity or any part of the Trinity-Father (God), Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. Honest debate about the nature of God and Christian Theology is allowed, but derogatory remarks are not.

Is it any wonder I don't go to much trouble trying to answer your questions. You reject all answers as "not credible, no compelling, blah, blah, blah".

Aldebaran · Aug 26, 2014

Skavau said:
So you're not going to answer seriously, you're just going to troll.

Also, from your own quote:

Trolling

Trolling is intentionally disrupting a thread by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the clear intention of provoking other members into an emotional response. Please do not troll. Calling another member a "troll" would be a violation of the flaming rule (calling them a derogatory name).

Skavau · Aug 26, 2014

Aldebaran said:
Boy are we a bit testy today. Perhaps you should read all of the rules. Here's one you've probably violated at least a dozen times if I were to look back at our previous conversations:

Blasphemy
It is considered blasphemy to insult or mock Christianity or any part of the Trinity-Father (God), Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. Honest debate about the nature of God and Christian Theology is allowed, but derogatory remarks are not.

Nothing I say on Christianity is designed to mock or insult.

Is it any wonder I don't go to much trouble trying to answer your questions. You reject all answers as "not credible, no compelling, blah, blah, blah".

Is there an answer to "wives should obey their husbands and this is why..." that I should find as credible?

But we didn't even get that far - I was asking you if you seriously believed in the idea that wives should obey their husbands and if you did, did you also believe the reverse.

Skavau · Aug 26, 2014

Aldebaran said:
Also, from your own quote:

Trolling

Trolling is intentionally disrupting a thread by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the clear intention of provoking other members into an emotional response. Please do not troll. Calling another member a "troll" would be a violation of the flaming rule (calling them a derogatory name).

Fair enough - but are you denying trolling?

Aldebaran · Aug 26, 2014

Skavau said:
Nothing I say on Christianity is designed to mock or insult.

So that makes it ok to do then?

Skavau said:
Is there an answer to "wives should obey their husbands and this is why..." that I should find as credible?

Women's thinking is based more on emotions while that of a man's is more logically based.
[/quote]

Skavau · Aug 26, 2014

Aldebaran said:
So that makes it ok to do then?

Blasphemy, as defined by the forum rules, refers to anything said with the intent to mock or insult Christianity. I do neither on here, so by the rules - yes, it is permissable.

Whether or not it is "okay" to insult or mock Christianity in a wider societal context, sure. It is no worse than insulting Atheism or Islam. But of course, this is a Christian forum.

Women's thinking is based more on emotions while that of a man's is more logically based.

Poe's Law rears its head here, but ignoring that:

Am I to take it then that you believe women should obey their husbands but not the reverse?

In Addition: Your rather blaise and simple observation between the differences of brain chemistry between men & women is noted. There's more to it and much is under scrutiny then "Men logical, women emotional".

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