States Run by GOP Govenors Have Highest Growth

ArmenianJohn

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Yep, New Jersey was 100% absolutely perfect until Christie took over, just like everything was 100% perfect until Obama, the previous administration had absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Had you read what I actually said, you'd have seen that I never claimed things were 100% perfect with NJ either before Christie or at any point.

What I DID point out, however, was that things were very good (not 100% but very good) during Kean and during Florio and before Whitman. It was Whitman, that evil person, who screwed up New Jersey. Since Whitman, McGreevey and Corzine and 2 interim governors were unable to fix the mess she created, but they certainly didn't add to it.

Cue Christie, who came in and is making the pension fund problem WORSE. This is why the state's credit rating took a tumble 3 times under Christie; he is fiscally irresponsible. It's likely that his financial habits reflect his personal health habits - do what feels good now, don't worry about the effect overall.

What's astounding to me is that Republicans across the country hold Christie up as some kind of shining example of a Republican when he is the most fiscally irresponsible borrow-and-spend governor NJ has seen since Whitman (another Republican governor - notice the pattern here?)

Republicans want this borrow - no, STEAL-and-spend governor to be their presidential candidate, LOL!!! Amazing!!!
 
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jgarden

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List of U.S. states by poverty rate

Rank - State - Poverty Rate (by Household Income)
*********************************************************

01 New Hampshire 5.6%

02 New Jersey 6.8%

03 Vermont 7.6%

04 Minnesota 8.1%

05 Hawaii 8.6%

06 Delaware 9.2%

07 Utah 9.2%

08 Virginia 9.2%

09 Nebraska 9.5%

10 Connecticut 9.7%

11 Maryland 9.7%

12 Idaho 9.9%

13 Alaska 10.0%

14 Massachusetts 10.1%

15 Washington 10.2%

16 Wisconsin 10.2%

17 Nevada 10.6%

18 Wyoming 10.6%

19 Florida 11.1%

20 North Dakota 11.2%

21 Pennsylvania 11.2%

22 Iowa 11.3%

23 Colorado 11.4%

24 Illinois 11.5%

25 Missouri 11.6%

26 South Dakota 11.8%

27 Michigan 12.0%

28 Oregon 12.0%

29 Rhode Island 12.1%

30 Ohio 12.3%

31 Kansas 12.5%

32 Indiana 12.6%

33 Maine 12.6%

*** United States 12.6% ***

34 North Carolina 13.1%

35 California 13.2%

36 Montana 13.8%

37 Georgia 14.4%

38 New York 14.5%

39 Kentucky 14.8%

40 Tennessee 15.0%

41 South Carolina 15.0%

42 Arizona 15.2%

43 West Virginia 15.4%

44 Oklahoma 15.6%

45 Arkansas 15.9%

46 Texas 16.2%

47 Alabama 16.7%

48 New Mexico 17.9%

49 Louisiana 18.3%

50 Mississippi 20.1%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_poverty_rate
States Run by GOP Govenors Have Highest Growth

What the OP conveniently fails to mention is that most of the states with the highest poverty rates in the nation have GOP governors!
 
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He is Risen 72

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Thanks for pointing out my typo. Doesn't change my point one iota though.

Not trying to change your point, I just lived I both states during my childhood and liked Alabama much more than Mississippi.
 
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OGM

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He is Risen 72 said:
Not trying to change your point, I just lived I both states during my childhood and liked Alabama much more than Mississippi.
Why is that? I haven't had a chance to spend time in either State.

It is sad to see the poverty rate so high in so much of the country.
 
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AceHero

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A governor can have the best policies and ideas in the world, if he doesn't have a legislature that's easy to work with, he's doomed for failure...

Hmm, reminds me of a similar situation on the national level...
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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Why is that? I haven't had a chance to spend time in either State.

It is sad to see the poverty rate so high in so much of the country.

Bush's fault.
 
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Vylo

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That's not fair at all - you're excusing Christie and blaming two Democratic governors (along with two acting governors, one republican one democrat) for the problem that Whitman created and that Christie just recently is exacerbating.

Whitman completely raided the fund to do her smoke-and-mirrors tax cuts, essentially funding her tax cuts for mostly the wealthy with the money she unlawfully took from the pension fund. McGreevey did nothing to fix it, but he didn't continue the raiding. Corzine actually DID put extra money back into it, just not enough (it was a huge mess by the time he got it so he had a tough job, but at least he did something and tried - didn't continue the raiding but paid more into it).

Now you have Christie who has a failed governorship and is raiding the fund by choosing to not pay into it and use that money for the rest of his budget. I guess it's more important to him to subsidize failing Atlantic City casinos rather than pay the state's obligations. He probably figures the same as Whitman, just let that be the state's headache long after he's gone. What a dirtbag, just like Whitman.

So, sorry, not buying your narrative. It's false.

Corzine stole the money. Sorry. I voted for him, I shook his hand in person at my college graduation. I hate him with a passion for his theft, and voted against him when he ran again. He's a thief. Our last decent governor was a moderate republican (Kean). Florio was an unmitigated disaster that started this whole mess, and Christie is now fumbling around with the pieces trying to put them back together. I don't approve of everything Christie does, he started strong but has had trouble keeping pace. But compared to our previous governors, he's sadly pretty good. And that said something pretty depressing about our governors.

What I DID point out, however, was that things were very good (not 100% but very good) during Kean and during Florio and before Whitman.

Florio, who gave us the largest tax increase of any state in history, banned semi-automatic weapons, created the Abbott program, and destroyed the trucking industry in NJ?

Yeah no. He was beyond awful. He almost destroyed the state. Whitman certainly wasn't good (raided the pension fund, and if you lived during her time, the condition of our streets and highways were horrific), but Florio made her look good.
 
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Vylo

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States Run by GOP Govenors Have Highest Growth

What the OP conveniently fails to mention is that most of the states with the highest poverty rates in the nation have GOP governors!

That chart is inaccurate. That is based off the national poverty level which is fairly meaningless.

Supplemental poverty is a much better measure, as it takes into account difference in state's cost of living

In that case, the following states have the highest poverty:

1. California - democrat
2. Nevada - republican
3. Florida - republican
4. Arizona - republican
5. Louisiana - republican
6. Georgia - republican
7. New York - democrat
8. Hawaii - democrat
9. Arkansas - democrat
10. Texas - republican

So 4 democrats, 6 republicans. Doesn't seem to be much partisan indicators there.

The 10 states with the lowest poverty:

1. Iowa - republican
2. Wyoming - republican
3. North Dakota - republican
4. Minnesota - democrat
5. Nebraska - republican
6. Vermont - democrat
7. New Hampshire - democrat
8. South Dakota - republican
9. Wisconsin - republican
10. Maine - republican

7 republicans 3 democrats, though a monkey could run North Dakota well economically with the fracking boom there. A bit of weight to the republicans on this end.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Hmm, reminds me of a similar situation on the national level...

That certainly is the arguing point of many democrats in this country, and as much as I hate to admit it, that argument isn't completely unfounded, there have been times during the current administration that the house republicans have opposed Obama simply for the sake of opposing Obama to make it difficult for him out of spite.

However, in other cases, I think they have acted as a filter for some bad ideas.

The problem is, that once they've opposed him out of spite (instead of opposing based on substance) 1 or 2 times, then when they oppose him for legitimate reasons, people assume they're doing it out of spite again (almost 'boy who cried wolf syndrome' to a degree).

Although, if you'll notice in my post that you quoted, I said "a person could have the best ideas or policies..." I don't correlate Obama to that statement because thus far, I've been less than impressed with his ideas and policies, but I do understand the point you're trying to make.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Corzine stole the money. Sorry. I voted for him, I shook his hand in person at my college graduation. I hate him with a passion for his theft, and voted against him when he ran again. He's a thief. Our last decent governor was a moderate republican (Kean). Florio was an unmitigated disaster that started this whole mess, and Christie is now fumbling around with the pieces trying to put them back together. I don't approve of everything Christie does, he started strong but has had trouble keeping pace. But compared to our previous governors, he's sadly pretty good. And that said something pretty depressing about our governors.

Corzine didn't steal. Oh wait, that's right, conservatives like to redefine "steal" to fit their stories. Such as when they define taxation as "stealing" done by the government. But it's never "stealing" when businesses take advantage of people. It's never "stealing" when a company pays someone minimum wage or when they go against minimum wage increase. No, in those cases it's just "business". But, since Corzine is one Wall Street banker who became a Democratic Governor, then they will label his business dealings as "stealing". Please, spare me the melodrama and morality high horse. Conservatives have cried "wolf" on morality way too many times for me to take that seriously from any of them.

Florio, who gave us the largest tax increase of any state in history, banned semi-automatic weapons, created the Abbott program, and destroyed the trucking industry in NJ?

Largest tax increase = fiscal responsibility. Unlike Kean (who I agree was a good governor), Florio believed in paying immediately to get NJ out of the budget deficit. Also, Florio provided better property tax relief to the MIDDLE class. Whitman screwed the middle class over that when she got her filthy paws on things.

Banning semi-automatic weapons = social responsibiity. I don't know why anyone would consider this a bad thing unless he or she is a murderer.

Abbott program = NJ has had the best schools in the nation ever since.

Trucking industry - ruined? Please. He levied a tax on the industry and later went back on it. My dad worked in the trucking industry at that time, as an accountant, and he got a laugh out of people blaming Florio for problems in the trucking industry, because he knew where all the money in the industry went - to the owners. They didn't want to give any more than they wanted to; they'd rather lay people off than pay higher for them - it wasn't that they COULDN'T pay, but that they WOULDN'T. Greed, that's what hurt the trucking industry in NJ.

As for Christie starting strong - what planet did he do that on? Certainly not earth, and certainly not in NJ. Unless by "strong" you mean being a big, fat bully. In that case, he's still going "strong". What a complete and utter jerk he is. He's the kind of guy who could use a good strong punch or two to his face. But he's the typical bully - he picks on ordinary people from behind a wall of State Troopers. And for this, he is a hit with conservatives - kind of says a lot for what conservatives value...

Yeah no. He was beyond awful. He almost destroyed the state. Whitman certainly wasn't good (raided the pension fund, and if you lived during her time, the condition of our streets and highways were horrific), but Florio made her look good.

And after everything, when it is clear that NJ's main problems stem from WHITMAN'S raiding of the pension fund, you do mental gymnastics to avoid blaming her while trying to shift blame to all the Democrats.

The facts are the facts: WHITMAN put our state into the hole it's in; McGreevey did nothing to get us out or deeper in; Corzine actually got us to move in the right direction out, but far too little; and now Christie has blatantly broken his promises to every fireman, police, and teacher in the state by refusing to pay into the pension fund which he is supposed to do, by law. Fiscal irresponsibility beyond every democratic governor COMBINED, and instead of accepting the truth, conservatives just try more of their shift-the-blame game. It's the same thing they do with Obama - they try to shift the blame for all of Bush's failures onto Obama.

Anyway, good try, but I'm a born-and-bred New Jerseyan who's been around longer and knows better than to believe the misinformation you are putting out there... Where do they teach you that junk, 105.5? I wouldn't listen to anything they say on that radio station, because 105.5 is a bunch of morons in the tradition of Hannity and Rush.
 
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Vylo

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So much wrong here its painful.

Corzine didn't steal. Oh wait, that's right, conservatives like to redefine "steal" to fit their stories. Such as when they define taxation as "stealing" done by the government. But it's never "stealing" when businesses take advantage of people. It's never "stealing" when a company pays someone minimum wage or when they go against minimum wage increase. No, in those cases it's just "business". But, since Corzine is one Wall Street banker who became a Democratic Governor, then they will label his business dealings as "stealing". Please, spare me the melodrama and morality high horse. Conservatives have cried "wolf" on morality way too many times for me to take that seriously from any of them.

First off, I'm not a conservative. I'm a liberal. Remember when I said I voted for Corzine for his first run?

The stealing was't taxes. Taxes aren't stealing. What is stealing is raiding the state pension fund to try and bailout Lehman brothers. After that, at MF Global, Corzine somehow misplaced over 600 million dollars, mostly pension fund money, for guess who? New Jersey.

Largest tax increase = fiscal responsibility. Unlike Kean (who I agree was a good governor), Florio believed in paying immediately to get NJ out of the budget deficit.

You don't slam up taxes like that. He drove out entire industries and made the debt WORSE. He is also the governor who set the trend for "borrowing" from the pension plan.

Banning semi-automatic weapons = social responsibiity. I don't know why anyone would consider this a bad thing unless he or she is a murderer.

That's not social responsibility, that is violating the constitution. I'm beginning to think you are just trolling. You do realize there are plenty of hunters in NJ right? And people have the right to defend their homes and property?

Abbott program = NJ has had the best schools in the nation ever since.

And how are those Abbott schools performing? Oh right, terribly. They aren't actually doing anything while spending more money.

As for Christie starting strong - what planet did he do that on? Certainly not earth, and certainly not in NJ. Unless by "strong" you mean being a big, fat bully. In that case, he's still going "strong". What a complete and utter jerk he is. He's the kind of guy who could use a good strong punch or two to his face. But he's the typical bully - he picks on ordinary people from behind a wall of State Troopers. And for this, he is a hit with conservatives - kind of says a lot for what conservatives value...

Christie cut a lot of spending to try and get the budget balanced. Initially performing pretty well, but lately some of his cuts are a little questionable, and his handling of the Sandy recovery was mixed at best.

And after everything, when it is clear that NJ's main problems stem from WHITMAN'S raiding of the pension fund, you do mental gymnastics to avoid blaming her while trying to shift blame to all the Democrats.

Except I never avoided blaming her, I just blamed all of them and said Florio was the worst. If he hadn't spiked taxes like that we would have recovered fine.

Anyway, good try, but I'm a born-and-bred New Jerseyan who's been around longer and knows better than to believe the misinformation you are putting out there... Where do they teach you that junk, 105.5? I wouldn't listen to anything they say on that radio station, because 105.5 is a bunch of morons in the tradition of Hannity and Rush.

Uh, yeah, I've lived in NJ my whole life, as have my parents, so don't try the born and bred thing. And its not 105.5 its 101.5, and yes, those guys are pretty much Rush lite.
 
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AceHero

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Although, if you'll notice in my post that you quoted, I said "a person could have the best ideas or policies..." I don't correlate Obama to that statement because thus far, I've been less than impressed with his ideas and policies, but I do understand the point you're trying to make.

Nor was I trying to say Obama has the best policies (and I was afraid my response would be construed as such). I was mostly focusing on the easy to work with legislature, which we don't have.
 
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morningstar2651

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One quarter does not a trend make. It is a blip and should be compared to several quarters to be meaningful. As well as an examination of policies, laws, and industries those states have. Then you will have a good idea what is working, and if it is really due to the Governer of that state.
This!

One quarter is a meaningless point of data.
 
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HorsieJuice

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The inverse of that is true...in a time when the demand for the AR-15 was sky high, New York made put hurdles in the way of Remington (one of the largest manufacturers; along with several other companies that had plants there) that happened to have their plant in Ilion, New York...so much so that they were forced to relocate to another state.

Yeah... About that. I realize this isn't your main point, but the whole argument about the SAFE Act driving Remington out of NY has irritated me. I know that's the argument being made by PLENTY of the local NY politicians (of all persuasions), but I don't buy it and AFAIK, noone from Remington has made that claim. The NYSAFE Act didn't prevent Remington from manufacturing the AR15 in NY; it only prevented them from selling it in the state. Given the small number of people in upstate NY, most of those weapons were likely being shipped out of state anyways, so I don't see what difference the law made on their production.

Additionally, only two product lines were moved to Alabama, not the entire operation. The Ilion plant is OLD and the AR15 is really popular and, I'm guessing, required a level of expansion that the existing facility couldn't handle. (they're supposed to be having 2000 new jobs at the new place, of which only 100-150 are being poached from Ilion). They can't build out on the current site, because it's in the middle of town and surrounded by houses, so they'd have to acquire new property somewhere, be it in Ilion or elsewhere.

I don't believe the decision to open up in AL was anything other than an economic one. While real estate in CNY is cheap, taxes are relatively high, the area is sparsely populated and the workforce isn't very skilled. Ilion also isn't the greatest place to have a high-volume manufacturing facility. The weather is terrible for a good chunk of the year, it's not anywhere near the majority of their customers, and the local culture is so non-existent that it would be difficult to attract new employees to the area.

Conversely, Hunstville is larger, has a couple of universities, a more educated workforce, better weather, and is closer geographically to the majority of their customers (whom I'm assuming live farther south than NY).
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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Maybe Remington read the writing on the wall, which led to economic studies that suggested relocation. Or maybe their Marketing department suggested manufacturing in the South would increase future sales. It may not be the single gun law in NY as much as the anti-gun laws in the NE vs. the new pro-gun rights laws in the SE
 
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HorsieJuice

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Maybe Remington read the writing on the wall, which led to economic studies that suggested relocation. Or maybe their Marketing department suggested manufacturing in the South would increase future sales. It may not be the single gun law in NY as much as the anti-gun laws in the NE vs. the new pro-gun rights laws in the SE

There may be something to the marketing angle, but if gun owners are really so stupid and shallow as to boycott a company that's been in the same town for 200 years based on what their politicians have started doing in the last 2 years, well...

That said, I really doubt the marketing thing is the primary force behind the move. As I said, there's no room to expand at their current facility w/o buying new property. The new plant is due to employ 2000 people and there just isn't that kind of skilled workforce in the Mohawk Valley.

....

Hmm... I just found this article. Apparently the move was part of a much larger consolidation of many of their product lines. The two product lines from Ilion are the only ones that moved there from the northeast - the rest were from much more 2A-friendly states like Kentucky and Georgia. Funny how none of the politicians mentioned that when blaming the SAFE Act.
 
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