When "The Church" became catholic.

OrthodoxyUSA · Aug 13, 2014

~Cassia~ said:
training to come to the throne of grace to conscientiously continue in unstained garments. That is the crux of the NT and what the NT preaches the most on and is what the pulpits should also be spending most time on since the bible does. Psalms and Proverbs make for great teaching tools which is what your litergy is composed of is it not?

Communion is recieving the life giving spirit

John 6:35Then Jesus declared, I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
His flesh is life. As the lamb of God He feeds and redeems, before the fall as the tree of life he was just for feeding on. Then in dying for us He gave His flesh so that we could have life. Blood is also necessary for redemption.Seperating the flesh and blood in verse 54 clearly means His death.
John 6:47
Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
John 1:12
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God
Verse 56 is the resurrected life of those who believe in Him.
By eating we are taking Him in as nourishment for the new creation for the new way of life.
John 14:19-20
Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
vs 62 involves His ascention which followed redemption as proof His work had been completed.
Hebrews 1:3b
... After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
Wherefore He has now become the Spirit v 63 who gives life and speaks in spirit and life.
1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
As the Spirit He is the the life supply. Recieving (believing) Him as the crucified and resurrected savior, the lifegiving Spirit comes into us to impart eternal life. We recieve (believe) the Lord Jesus but we get the Holy Spirit who gives us life.
__________________

Is receiving unto self condemnation taken into consideration? Do they need to be baptized (spiritually cleansed) first?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

MoreCoffee · Aug 13, 2014

The church was always catholic. It is in its nature to be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

OrthodoxyUSA · Aug 13, 2014

MoreCoffee said:
The church was always catholic. It is in its nature to be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church became catholic when Christ said "and now is" to Photini at the well.

His proclamation was that we would no longer worship in the Temple alone.

So... it does have a point in time that it "became" catholic, and that time was from the very beginning of The Church.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 13, 2014

OrthodoxyUSA said:
Is receiving unto self condemnation taken into consideration? Do they need to be baptized (spiritually cleansed) first?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Again that's terminology that I would describe as recognition of depravity as a prerequisite of repentance.

OrthodoxyUSA said:
The Church became catholic when Christ said "and now is" to Photini at the well.

His proclamation was that we would no longer worship in the Temple alone.

So... it does have a point in time that it "became" catholic, and that time was from the very beginning of The Church.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Christ said to her that He was the living water, that may 'well' be

Have a great day ya'll .. I has to gets ready for the day ... will check in later

OrthodoxyUSA · Aug 13, 2014

~Cassia~ said:
Again that's terminology that I would describe as recognition of depravity as a prerequisite of repentance.

However your denomination does not withhold communion; putting the subject of righteousness solely at the discretion of the person receiving.

So... If I feel like I'm righteous; I'm good to go?

~Cassia~ said:
Christ said to her that He was the living water, that may 'well' be

Have a great day ya'll .. I has to gets ready for the day ... will check in later

Have a good one!

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Albion · Aug 13, 2014

OrthodoxyUSA said:
However your denomination does not withhold communion; putting the subject of righteousness solely at the discretion of the person receiving.

So... If I feel like I'm righteous; I'm good to go?

Just a minute. Your denomination doesn't judge the righteousness of each communicant, either.

There's little more needed than the priest being reasonably assured that the person is a church member.

OrthodoxyUSA · Aug 13, 2014

Albion said:
Just a minute. Your denomination doesn't judge the righteousness of each communicant, either.

What's needed is the priest being assured that the person is a church member.

How is it that you would think that?

Confession, Penance and excommunication?

Communion can be given, but it cannot be taken.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Noxot · Aug 13, 2014

people worshiped God in spirit and truth wherever they were before the times of the NT. the church is not something based in this reality. she comes from heaven. the lamb was slain from before the foundation of the world. the church has nothing to do with this fallen world ( though she is in it obviously ). she is concerned only with the eternal world.

when Jesus speaks of certain times he is often referring to spiritual time, not historical time. example:

Rev 1:9-11 (YLT)
I, John, who also am your brother, and fellow-partner in the tribulation, and in the reign and endurance, of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, because of the word of God, and because of the testimony of Jesus Christ; I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying, `I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'

the jews were the ones expecting a messiah that would conquer the world by force and many Christians also believe that Jesus Christ will come on some day and submit the world to himself and yet that would most likely be the spirit of the antichrist as it is the kingdom of Caesar that likes to force and subdue people. no doubt the world will not always remain as it is. obviously God also works in historical time. that is the kind of reality we are in.

PLENTY of saints in the OT worshiped God in spirit and truth. to deny the true reality of spirit as a thing that only occurred in a point in time is to deny the power that eternity has over this reality. jeremiah, joel, ezekiel, noah.... they are all part of the church. she has been around for a long time.

Albion · Aug 13, 2014

OrthodoxyUSA said:
How is it that you would think that?

Confession, Penance and excommunication?

Communion can be given, but it cannot be taken.

Well, what we were discussing was the giving, and your comment was "However your denomination does not withhold communion." That's the giving. My point is correct, therefore.

Rick Otto · Aug 14, 2014

Albion said:
Well, what we were discussing was the giving, and your comment was "However your denomination does not withhold communion." That's the giving. My point is correct, therefore.

Ortho, it looks like Albion has a point.

OrthodoxyUSA · Aug 14, 2014

Rick Otto said:
Ortho, it looks like Albion has a point.

Please explain it to me.

I was speaking to ~Cassia~ and was pointing out the difference between their open communion and a catholic communion which is and always has been closed.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Albion · Aug 14, 2014

OrthodoxyUSA said:
Please explain it to me.

Very well. Let me know where, if anywhere, you lose track.

You said to Cassia:

However your denomination does not withhold communion; putting the subject of righteousness solely at the discretion of the person receiving.

I responded by pointing out that your denomination does the same thing.

You then said:

How is it that you would think that?

Confession, Penance and excommunication?

Communion can be given, but it cannot be taken.

I replied that the "giving" was exactly the subject, not all the rest of that. You had criticized Cassia's denomination's policy on the giving of Communion-- and it's no different from the practice in the Orthodox churches, just as I had indicated.

And if the "but it cannot be taken" part of your statement above seems to you to make a difference, it doesn't. Not to the reservation you said you had about her church's policies. That's because excommunication, etc. only happens after the fact, whereas your initial criticism of Cassia's church was (as you termed it) about the "giving."

squint · Aug 14, 2014

Albion said:
Very well. Let me know where, if anywhere, you lose track.

You said to Cassia:

I responded by pointing out that your denomination does the same thing.

You then said:

I replied that the "giving" was exactly the subject, not all the rest of that. You had criticized Cassia's denomination's policy on the giving of Communion-- and it's no different from the practice in the Orthodox churches, just as I had indicated.

And if the "but it cannot be taken" part of your statement above seems to you to make a difference, it doesn't. Not to the reservation you said you had about her church's policies. That's because excommunication, etc. only happens after the fact, whereas your initial criticism of Cassia's church was (as you termed it) about the "giving."

Does any of that really matter Albion? They obviously constructed a system to 'let priest off the hook' if he served somebody he shouldn't.

Mr. Orthodox belongs to thee only church there is in his own eyes. He has expelled the Roman catholics and the Anglicans. You can tell from there what he thinks of anyone else.

Let them have their closed door religion. I hope no one finds them behind their locked doors with that attitude.

Eat my ritualized bread or be damned to hell is NOT the Gospel.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 14, 2014

Well hopefully it won't be as when God brought one of the prophets to look behind the closed door religionists of the OT

squint · Aug 14, 2014

~Cassia~ said:
Well hopefully it won't be as when God brought one of the prophets to look behind the closed door religionists of the OT

Yeah, the religious cloth wasn't fooling God then either was it?

Albion · Aug 14, 2014

squint said:
Does any of that really matter Albion?

It matters to him. I merely pointed out a logical inconsistency in him criticizing Cassia's church for a policy that is essentially the same as his own church's.

They obviously constructed a system to 'let priest off the hook' if he served somebody he shouldn't.

Oh, my personal view is that it's more than that and that there's something to be said for open communion AND ALSO for close communion, quite apart from letting anyone off any hook.

Mr. Orthodox belongs to thee only church there is in his own eyes. He has expelled the Roman catholics and the Anglicans.

Sure.

Let them have their closed door religion. I hope no one finds them behind their locked doors with that attitude.

All right, but again I have to say that I didn't express an opinion for or against close communion. I simply pointed out an inconsistency in the claim made by another poster.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 14, 2014

OrthodoxyUSA said:
The Church became catholic when Christ said "and now is" to Photini at the well.

His proclamation was that we would no longer worship in the Temple alone.

So... it does have a point in time that it "became" catholic, and that time was from the very beginning of The Church.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

I'm looking into the the living water part of Photini and I'll post it separately. You have a good one too.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 14, 2014

squint said:
Yeah, the religious cloth wasn't fooling God then either was it?

I think for any part of church history changes come about slowly. More so than secular ever has.

squint · Aug 14, 2014

~Cassia~ said:
I think for any part of church history changes come about slowly. More so than secular ever has.

Patterns repeat for spiritual/anti-spiritual reasons. That is why they keep cropping up in religious systems, which are at the lead of the attack zone, therefore they are the FIRST to fall.

OrthodoxyUSA · Aug 14, 2014

Albion said:
It matters to him. I merely pointed out a logical inconsistency in him criticizing Cassia's church for a policy that is essentially the same as his own church's.

Oh, my personal view is that it's more than that and that there's something to be said for open communion AND ALSO for close communion, quite apart from letting anyone off any hook.

Sure.

All right, but again I have to say that I didn't express an opinion for or against close communion. I simply pointed out an inconsistency in the claim made by another poster.

I see you guys misunderstood what I was saying.

That The Holy Eucharist can be administered to someone but we cannot "take it" by force, that it must be given.

Also... I was questioning ~Cassia~, IOW - Your denomination allows for people to make their own assumptions about whether they were ready and prepared?

I didn't intend for it to be an accusation.

Merely pointing out that we are doing something totally different.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

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