Do We Worship Christ Or The Father?

CherubRam said:

Interesting contradiction of scriptures. Since that one verse contradicts all the others, I would say that perhaps there is a problem there. Or maybe he is worthy worship, but yet is not worshiped. Thoughts?

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Hebrews 1 says

"God, who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, You are my Son, this day have I begotten you? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he brought the firstbegotten into the world, he said, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Should we think the angels obeyed God? Hmmm?

Paul

pshun2404 said:

Hebrews 1 says

"God, who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, You are my Son, this day have I begotten you? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he brought the firstbegotten into the world, he said, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Should we think the angels obeyed God? Hmmm?

Paul

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Not to mention when Jesus Himself said He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him....How do we honor the Father? By worshipping Him correct? We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. 6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.





Athanasian Creed.

The Alpha and Omega .. What a great God !!!

ChetSinger said:

So believing that YHWH can be in two places at once, doing two things at once, isn't in itself unorthodox, is it?

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YHWH is not in two places at once. He is ever present everywhere in all places, not just one or two.

Jer 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

You are not understanding the meaning of "in the midst of us". He is there metaphorically but not in actual appearance as anything other than spiritually speaking. Our gathering together means that we are continuing to preach his message and this is what "in the midst of us" means and that we are watching day and night for his second coming.

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch,
I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Deu 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

Hos 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

Only man puts a compitition between God the Father and His Son Jesus.
Thus the trinity vs unity or one vs three mystery down thru the ages...
The why of that only each heart knows. The unity they both possess has not been practiced in the church as of yet. Jesus called for it in His prayer, and it will come to pass.
Maybe we just have a sense of guilt over that an so the struggle over the Father and the Son issue.
Behold 'now' are we the sons of God, and how we handle that verse may shine some light.

Jesus is worshiped

Matthew 2:2 - "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him."

Matthew 2:11 - "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him; and opening their treasures they presented to Him gifts of gold and frankincense and myrrh."

Matthew 14:33 - "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God’s Son!"

Matthew 28:9 - "And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him."

John 9:35-38 - "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."

Hebrews 1:6 - "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'"

Luke 17:16 He threw himself at Jesus' feet and thanked him--and he was a Samaritan.

Good summation Alex, it seems clear that Jesus gives the honor to His Father and our Father.
In our weakness, the understanding of family has lost something.
As our elder Brother Jesus prays for us. We know who he prays to.
As we unite in love, more light will shine.

Peace

Jesus was conceived by God the Holy Spirit , But God the Father calls Jesus his only begotten .. I know that Jesus prayed to his Father but I don't know the Father except through Jesus only ..

Norah63 said:

The unity they both possess has not been practiced in the church as of yet. Jesus called for it in His prayer, and it will come to pass.
.

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It is practiced! It is alive and well.

ChetSinger said:

The Jews of the 2nd temple period acknowledged that YHWH could be both a spirit in heaven and a physical manifestation here on earth. It wasn't polytheistic because both were YHWH: he could act independently in multiple places at once.

The rabbis declared that belief heretical after the rise of Christianity. Was it a response to Christians worshiping both the Father and the Son? Maybe.

Two Powers in Heaven

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It was their unbelief that Jesus is our Savior and equal to the Father. Also, the Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection, only the Pharisees did.

he-man said:

Sorry, but the scoop is here, that is why Jews are blinded:

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

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Rev. 11:14 "The 2nd woe is past, behold, the 3rd woe is coming quickly."
15 Then the 7th angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"

Eph. 4:5 "one Lord, one faith, one baptism,"
6 "one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in u all."

pshun2404 said:

Hebrews 1 says

"God, who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, You are my Son, this day have I begotten you? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he brought the firstbegotten into the world, he said, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Should we think the angels obeyed God? Hmmm?

Paul

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Eph. 3:9 "...to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;"
10 "to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,"

BelCantoBaptist said:

Not to mention when Jesus Himself said He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him....How do we honor the Father? By worshipping Him correct? We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. 6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

Athanasian Creed.

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Actually they r 3, but r one in unity; they agree as one..

There is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
[Eph. 4-6]

Just as...

Rom. 12:5 "so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another."

When the body of Christ is NOT one, it is divisive (divisions exist)....

1 Cor. 11:18 "For first of all, when u come together as a church, I hear that there r divisions among u, and in part I believe it."

4x4toy said:

The Alpha and Omega .. What a great God !!!

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he-man said:

YHWH is not in two places at once. He is ever present everywhere in all places, not just one or two

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Yes. But I already said that when I quoted Jesus' words about being in the midst of any collection of Christians.

pshun2404 said:

Hebrews 1 says

"God, who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, You are my Son, this day have I begotten you? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he brought the firstbegotten into the world, he said, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Should we think the angels obeyed God? Hmmm?

Paul

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Psalm 97 before the Christian era.

Psalm 97
5. The mountains melt like wax before Yahwah, before Yahwah of all the earth.
6. The heavens proclaim his righteousness, and all the people see His glory.
7. All who worship images and those who boast in idols are put to shame, worship Him, all you gods!
8. Zion hears and rejoices and the villages of Judah are glad because of your judgments, Yahwah.

This version says worship Yahwah.

CherubRam said:

Interesting contradiction of scriptures. Since that one verse contradicts all the others, I would say that perhaps there is a problem there. Or maybe he is worthy worship, but yet is not worshiped. Thoughts?

Click to expand...

There is NO contradiction here.