Atheist proseletyzing at Kentucky high school! Who'd have thunk it?

SaphireOwl said:

No it wasn't a typo.
And what is there to resist? There is no God. No such thing as a higher power. No creator of any sort typically affiliated with any religion.

What is there to resist when there is no thing behind religion? Nor inspiring the religious.

Resisting the prejudice of some of the religious indicates a prejudice in itself. Against people who are members of any religion. Well, not any. As we rarely hear of atheists being compelled to action against faiths other than the Christian.

Click to expand...

What there is to resist are any actions done by teachers, coaches or school administrators with the intention of forcing non-believing students to participate in prayers or to make statements of faith that they do not agree with, limiting their ability to form school clubs around their ideologies, or forcing them to sit through religious indoctrination. These are all actions that sometimes take place at public schools.

What are your opinions on high school students being informed as to their legal rights in these matters and where to go to get help in enforcing them? Do you feel this information should be withheld from them? Made available to them if they want it?

The handbook is a guide to nurture that prejudice against theists.

Click to expand...

On this you are wrong. The book also outlines the rights of religious students and points out that sometimes even well-meaning teachers and administrators will misunderstand these rights. For instance they may find their schools attempting to prevent Christian students from bringing their bibles to school or forbidding religious themed clubs. The author encourages atheist students to help defend believing students if their rights are being violated.

When there is no thing to hold faith in, as religions do, how on earth can an atheist feel intimidated by people who believe in nothing real. A fiction. Something that is not really there?

Click to expand...

Students can feel quite intimidated when, for instance, a principal misinforms them that they are required to stand and recite the pledge or face punishment. (They are not) New teachers who might want to sponsor a secular themed student club might feel intimidated if they are informed by school administrators that this will be bad for their continued employment. (The students can have the club even if they can't find a sponsor.)

One needn't be in fear of a god in order to be intimidated over the subject of religious beliefs by people in positions of authority.

In America people are free to believe in nothing. That first guarantee in our Constitution insures we can speak of nothing and believe in nothing.

All religions are prejudice in that the faithful within each one believe their faith is the only right one. That prejudice doesn't affect, in its worship of nothing real, those who hold faith in themselves.

The prejudice that exists here is in the atheists. Who believe not that they need to defend against nothing. But that they need to defend against people for daring to hold faith in nothing real. Because God doesn't exist.

After all, what is there to "survive" according to the text of an atheists survival guide when theists worship a fiction?

If the atheist truly believes in people having the right to their religious freedom and all religions worship what isn't real what's there for the atheist to defend against?

Except for people who believe in God?

Click to expand...

Students need to survive being misinformed of their legal rights, being threatened with punishment by adults in positions of authority over them for insisting upon their rights, for instance, by being thrown off sports teams for not joining in on prayer circles, being bullied by other students who have been brought up with negative stereotypes of atheists or people of other religions, feeling isolated due to most non-believing students being intimidated into silence so that they are unaware that there are others like themselves. Some of them even need to survive being thrown out of their homes.

The religious aren't prejudice against atheists.

Click to expand...

Prejudice can and does happen in both directions. This book encourages working against both and nurturing mutual consideration.

An atheists handbook written to defend against people who are simply believing in figments of their own deluded imagination is intolerance of people, since God isn't real. It's a prejudice against theists.

Click to expand...

The book actually encourages atheist students to learn about the religious beliefs of their peers, to discuss their beliefs civilly and respectfully, to be sensitive to religious student and to defend them if they are discriminated against.

I encourage you to read it.

SaphireOwl said:

What is there to resist when there is no thing behind religion? Nor inspiring the religious.

Click to expand...

The people.

It's quite obvious to atheists that there is no God. That is not what we need a survival guide for. It's the people who can't get a clue and also are more than willing to impose their religion on the rest of society that we need a survival guide for. Because whether God exists or not, doesn't change the fact that your religion does exist and does have rules for everyone to follow. Thankfully, no one has to accept that as any kind of authority.

So if the religious would keep their religion in the church, you'd never hear a peep out of atheists. Mainly what we are fighting against is the tacit theocracy that only Christians seem to want to establish in this country.

After all, what is there to "survive" according to the text of an atheists survival guide when theists worship a fiction?

Click to expand...

Not the fictional God who doesn't seem to do anything here on earth. We are trying to survive his followers who DO have a very real effect on earth and in public policy and in foreign policy and in matters of the bedroom/private life... etc.

That is what atheists need a survival guide for. You people.

The religious aren't prejudice against atheists.

Click to expand...

That is a flat out lie. Your holy book describes atheists as fools and then you guys take it a step further and say we are demon possessed and that we only want to rebel against a God we know exists and that we only want to live in sin, and so on. That's pretty danged prejudice to me....

Sapphire has done a splendid job in this thread highlighting exactly why this educational guides are necessary.

As more and more people become knowledgeable about atheists, the hatred and ignorance thrown at us by the likes of Sapphire and Ham will be increasingly thrown into the trash where it belongs.

SaphireOwl said:

Ken Ham Blasts Upcoming Distribution of Atheist Book at Ky. High School; 'Friendly Atheist' Blogger Says Book Is Not Anti-Christian

By Stoyan Zaimov, Christian Post Reporter

May 19, 2014
Full Christian Post Article


Had this been Bibles that were going to be handed out the atheist activist groups would have exploded with outrage and threats against all concerned.

While the courts have said atheism qualifies as a religion one wonders how this can legally be allowed to occur on a government funded property that is this Kentucky public high school?

It is literally proselytizing atheism. And seeking to teach atheism so as to convert the student body to its precepts.

Unbelievable!

Click to expand...

Oh no you're SOOOOO persecuted in a country where white Christians are the majority!!!!!!

Stuff your sorrys in a sac; there are people who are ACTUALLY persecuted in this world.


My apologies; but you really have got to stop worrying about non issues. They cause unneeded stress and tension.

SaphireOwl said:

Resist the prejudice of some of the religions?

So the purpose of a survival guide is to teach atheists, and in this case hope to program young atheists, and recruit kids to atheism, how to fight religious freedom.

Click to expand...

No, that's not what I said. I think you may be confusing religious freedom for religious privilege.

SaphireOwl said:

Ken Ham Blasts Upcoming Distribution of Atheist Book at Ky. High School; 'Friendly Atheist' Blogger Says Book Is Not Anti-Christian

By Stoyan Zaimov, Christian Post Reporter

May 19, 2014
Full Christian Post Article


Had this been Bibles that were going to be handed out the atheist activist groups would have exploded with outrage and threats against all concerned.

While the courts have said atheism qualifies as a religion one wonders how this can legally be allowed to occur on a government funded property that is this Kentucky public high school?

It is literally proselytizing atheism. And seeking to teach atheism so as to convert the student body to its precepts.

Unbelievable!

Click to expand...

But Bibles have been handed out, apparently regularly on the last day of school. The group wants to hand out books in the same fashion as the Gideons. What's the problem?

Personally I wish people would stop targeting kids IN and just outside of the school grounds. All my kids are out of school now, and while they were in school here in Albany they never were given Bibles as they left school. But at both of the NYC high schools my oldest children attended bibles were distributed twice a year just outside the school gates. In fact when my son declined he was followed half way down a city street in an attempt to push a NT on him.

In any case what's the problem? Previous complaints that are ever found to be valid have been about people in the school or on the school grounds giving out religious books and pamphlets or actual school employees giving them out.

The book explains in its first chapter, an example of religious bigotry against an atheist. Nicole, a high school basketball player was twice kicked off her basketball team, because she wouldn't pray with the students after the games. She was harassed by both students AND faculty, accused of theft and of making death threats.

Oh but the religious are never prejudiced against those who are not! Puh-leeze.

TheYoungTurk said:

The book explains in its first chapter, an example of religious bigotry against an atheist. Nicole, a high school basketball player was twice kicked off her basketball team, because she wouldn't pray with the students after the games. She was harassed by both students AND faculty, accused of theft and of making death threats.

Oh but the religious are never prejudiced against those who are not! Puh-leeze.

Click to expand...

It's sad that a teenager would be ridiculed and harassed for not believing in an invisible man in the sky. There's something very wrong with that.

They're the one's with the ridiculous beliefs that need constitutional protection. Not us.

TheYoungTurk said:

The book explains in its first chapter, an example of religious bigotry against an atheist. Nicole, a high school basketball player was twice kicked off her basketball team, because she wouldn't pray with the students after the games. She was harassed by both students AND faculty, accused of theft and of making death threats.

Oh but the religious are never prejudiced against those who are not! Puh-leeze.

Click to expand...

That's awful. She should have never been treated like that. That makes me sad.

Archaeopteryx said:

No, that's not what I said. I think you may be confusing religious freedom for religious privilege.

Click to expand...

I think perhaps you're the one confused.

Perhaps it is a matter of atheist privilege that thinks all Christians are confused when they recognize that while atheists argue there is no such thing as God, they have no problem taking issue with people who disagree.

I find that to be the oddest thing. When there is no God why do some people obsess over those who would then qualify as deluded?

And some atheists will play the victim card. They'll play the hero card and claim they're obsessed over the religious because they want to make sure the religious know their place. Because Christians in particular cite Christian privilege and think they're able to force faith on people.

A stupid argument actually. The laws insure that doesn't happen. Can never happen.

What those particular types of atheists then are saying, when they play that particular hero card argument, is they are opposed to Christianity in total. And the empty excuses they make as their cause in fighting against the institution that is dedicated to no thing that could possibly exist is actually a declaration of assault against persons.

That's why atheists lose their arguments. When there is no God there is nothing to fight against.
But when they fight anyway atheists are showing their intention to fight people who exercise their inalienable right to believe. And it is actually the atheist who invokes the privilege to oppose that.
That's why they'll lose there too.

Removed at request of OP for being OT.......


.

SaphireOwl said:

I'd say The Freethinkers credited with making that comparison aren't being serious or aren't aware of what transpired in Kentucky two years ago when an atheist group boasted they'd succeeded in stopping such acts from happening at schools.

Click to expand...

Of course they're going to celebrate if they think at the time that they've succeeded. Clearly they didn't as Gideon found another way to circumvent the issue. You can't complain if another group is using the same tactic simply because you dislike one and favor the other.

I saw the Gideon's on my college campus, while in undergrad, on more than one occasion.

Does this count as proselytizing? lol

dp........

Sunshine Locket said:

I think perhaps you're the one confused.

Perhaps it is a matter of atheist privilege that thinks all Christians are confused when they recognize that while atheists argue there is no such thing as God, they have no problem taking issue with people who disagree.

I find that to be the oddest thing. When there is no God why do some people obsess over those who would then qualify as deluded?

And some atheists will play the victim card. They'll play the hero card and claim they're obsessed over the religious because they want to make sure the religious know their place. Because Christians in particular cite Christian privilege and think they're able to force faith on people.

A stupid argument actually. The laws insure that doesn't happen. Can never happen.

What those particular types of atheists then are saying, when they play that particular hero card argument, is they are opposed to Christianity in total. And the empty excuses they make as their cause in fighting against the institution that is dedicated to no thing that could possibly exist is actually a declaration of assault against persons.

That's why atheists lose their arguments. When there is no God there is nothing to fight against.
But when they fight anyway atheists are showing their intention to fight people who exercise their inalienable right to believe. And it is actually the atheist who invokes the privilege to oppose that.
That's why they'll lose there too.

Click to expand...

What atheist are generally fighting against isn't a non-existent God. Atheist are fighting against tyranny from the majority. -That is, the very real people who believe a God not only exists, but should have complete authority over the entire nation. Which in this case happens to be Christians.

If we lived in a legally secular country that was mostly populated by Jews and those Jews were passing laws against non-kosher foods and were making non-Jews wear Yamakas or going to public high schools to pass around copies of the Tanakh, then you'd have the atheists in that country fighting against that tyranny from a Jewish majority.

Yes legally, Christians cannot push their religion on anybody who doesn't want to subscribe to that faith. That doesn't mean it never happens. Legally, people can't discriminate against women or blacks or gays or Muslims. That doesn't meant it never happens.

I feel that Christians have had it so good in America for such a long time that any push back from their pedestal is taken as persecution against them.

Nobody is trying to eliminate Christianity. Certainly not your average atheist who just wants to live his life in peace and leave others to do the same. We just wish Christians would stop being given special treatment over everybody else just because they think "This is Jesus country!"

No, it's not Jesus country. But you're free to believe that if you'd like.

lost999 said:

I saw the Gideon's on my college campus, while in undergrad, on more than one occasion.

Does this count as proselytizing? lol

Click to expand...

What about Chick tracts?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7732889/#post62674873
Are Jack Chick tracts hate speech?

Originally Posted by Yoder777

Click to expand...

Jack Trick tracts are a fundamentalist Christian proselytizing tool that turn up in places like restaurants, airports, bathrooms, bus stations, etc. Most of them are written with the intention of scaring anyone who doesn't believe in fundamentalist Christianity that they will burn in hell.

In this tract, Christian ministers who spent fifty years as humanitarians for the poor are sent to hell for not trusting in the blood of Jesus for their salvation:
Flight 144

It's rather transparent what the message of this tract is for anyone who doesn't accept its fundamentalist theology, that whoever actually tries to put Jesus' actual teachings into practice rather than simply "trusting in the blood" is damned to hell for their works-righteousness.

Click to expand...

.

LittleLambofJesus said:

If a Christian is proselytizing they are not being being Biblical. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to go out and convert people to Christianity. In fact, if you have managed to convert someone to Christianity, it is very likely they are not really a Christian. They are a false convert.

Click to expand...

First of all, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile" (Romans 1:16). Secondly, God said, "So shall My word be which goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I desire, and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it," (Isaiah 55:11). Third, I'm really thankful that the Apostles didn't stay in the Upper Room, aren't you?! I'm equally thankful that they did obey the Great Commission Jesus gave them and to the rest of His followers (Matthew 28:18-20) and actually went out into the world and preached the Gospel to every living creature (Mark 16:15). They understood that the Great Commission was a command, not a suggestion.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Proselytizing is impossible for Christians. The Bible is clear that there is nothing a Christian can say or do that will make someone become a Christian. Only God turns people from unbelief to belief. Ephesians 2:8 & 9 says: “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”.................

Click to expand...

Consequently, witnessing and sharing the message of the Gospel does not save anyone. It is the Holy Spirit who convicts of sin (John 16:8) and it is the Father who leads us to repentance (Romans 2:4). We, as followers of Jesus, are merely His witnesses (Acts 1:8) and His Ambassadors (2 Corinthians 5:20). And finally, if you want to learn more about true and false conversion, you can read my blog post here and/or listen to this sermon called True and False Conversion.

Furthermore from Scripture:

"14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: 'How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!'” (Romans 10:14-15)

"Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ." (Romans 10:17)

And finally this passage, underlined for emphasis.

"If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked person shall die for his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die for his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul." (Ezekiel 3:18-19)

And in conclusion, I would like to present to you what Jesus Himself did while WITNESSING to the Samaritan woman at the well - John 4:1-26.

DiligentlySeekingGod said:

And in conclusion, I would like to present to you what Jesus Himself did while WITNESSING to the Samaritan woman at the well - John 4:1-26.

Click to expand...

I am familiar with that story, as I am sure the Jews and/or Samaritans are

http://www.christianforums.com/t5690463-2/
The Woman at the Well

John 4:
11 She saith unto him--Lord! not even a bucket hast Thou,--and the well/frear <5421> is deep/baqu <901>:--
Whence then hast thou the living water?
12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well/frear <5421>,--
and himself out of it drank, and his sons and his flocks?

Revelation 9:1
And the fifth Messenger trumpets and I saw a Star out of the heaven having fallen into the land,
and was given to him the key of the well/freatoV <5421> of the abyss/abussou <12>,

The Abyss Trailer - YouTube


.