Another protestant enamored with Pope Francis

Sword of the Lord

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Wow, an LC-MS Pastor. I'm surprised.

Eh, as a former LCMS I'm not. Hardly anyone holds ill will towards the pope anymore. My pastor and congregation and others in the area never did.
 
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Gnarwhal

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Ya know, that's kind of profound. The more I think about it, the more it seems like Protestants look to the Pope as an anchor point for their beliefs. Whether they're affirming what he represents or not, he's a representation of Christianity. Whether they fuss and resist it or not, his influence is still there.

I don't know if that makes sense. Essentially I wonder if the Pope influences Protestantism more directly than most Protestants are willing to admit.

The Papacy is a figure that's probably seen more reference from Protestant pulpits than most others.

Eh, as a former LCMS I'm not. Hardly anyone holds ill will towards the pope anymore. My pastor and congregation and others in the area never did.

I thought LCMS Lutherans still believed the Papacy to be the antichrist or something? I know the ELCA shed that belief a while ago but I was under the impression the LCMS still affirmed it. :confused:
 
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WarriorAngel

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Tigger45

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Eh, as a former LCMS I'm not. Hardly anyone holds ill will towards the pope anymore. My pastor and congregation and others in the area never did.
You may have been a former LCMS "member" and the volume of the office of the Pope being the seat of the antichrist may not be as pronounced in many LCMS congregations. But that being said the LCMS are confessional Lutherans and the comments are still listed in the Book of Concord. When the initial comment comes from a "current" LCMS pastor it makes me wonder is the Bishop of the synod going to correct this pastor or change their statements in the Book of Concord?
 
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Needing_Grace

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Eh, as a former LCMS I'm not. Hardly anyone holds ill will towards the pope anymore. My pastor and congregation and others in the area never did.

It's still in the official confessional document of the Missouri Synod that the office of the Pope is "Antichrist."

Of the Antichrist
As to the Antichrist we teach that the prophecies of the Holy Scriptures concerning the Antichrist, 2 Thess. 2:3-12; 1 John 2:18, have been fulfilled in the Pope of Rome and his dominion.
All the features of the Antichrist as drawn in these prophecies, including the most abominable and horrible ones, for example, that the Antichrist "as God sitteth in the temple of God," 2 Thess. 2:4; that he anathematizes the very heart of the Gospel of Christ, that is, the doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace alone, for Christ's sake alone, through faith alone, without any merit or worthiness in man (Rom. 3:20-28; Gal. 2:16); that he recognizes only those as members of the Christian Church who bow to his authority; and that, like a deluge, he had inundated the whole Church with his antichristian doctrines till God revealed him through the Reformation -- these very features are the outstanding characteristics of the Papacy. (Cf. Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 515, Paragraphs 39-41; p. 401, Paragraph 45; M. pp. 336, 258.) Hence we subscribe to the statement of our Confessions that the Pope is "the very Antichrist." (Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 475, Paragraph 10; M., p. 308.)

So, to me it is rather impressive that a Missouri Synod pastor is impressed by and even enamored of the Holy Father.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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It's still in the official confessional document of the Missouri Synod that the office of the Pope is "Antichrist."

So, to me it is rather impressive that a Missouri Synod pastor is impressed by and even enamored of the Holy Father.
And he's impressed not just with Pope Francis but also with St. Pope John XXIII, St. Pope John Paul II, and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.
 
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Needing_Grace

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LivingWordUnity said:
And he's impressed not just with Pope Francis but also with St. Pope John XXIII, St. Pope John Paul II, and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.

*raises eyebrow*

I believe I said that, Doctor.

Sent from my iPhone using CF
 
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Sword of the Lord

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I'm well aware that it's still an official teaching. Not very many people BELIEVE in the teaching though. My pastor went as far as to call it nonsense when I was being catechized. He admired Benedict and Benedict's admiration for Lutheranism. I'm sure he now feels the same about Francis.
 
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Michie

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Ya know, that's kind of profound. The more I think about it, the more it seems like Protestants look to the Pope as an anchor point for their beliefs. Whether they're affirming what he represents or not, he's a representation of Christianity. Whether they fuss and resist it or not, his influence is still there.

I don't know if that makes sense. Essentially I wonder if the Pope influences Protestantism more directly than most Protestants are willing to admit.

The Papacy is a figure that's probably seen more reference from Protestant pulpits than most others.


I thought LCMS Lutherans still believed the Papacy to be the antichrist or something? I know the ELCA shed that belief a while ago but I was under the impression the LCMS still affirmed it. :confused:
Protestants are always looking to the papal office for various reasons. Even if it is to fuel their end time views. I do believe thought the Popes influence them more than they care to admit. I think they relate to popes like Francis, JPII, Pope John XXIII because they show a joy of Christ & seem like one of them.

But even if they are anti-catholic they are influence by the papacy. Even if they do not admit it. They pay too much attention to it for it not to in one way or the other.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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Protestants are always looking to the papal office for various reasons. Even if it is to fuel their end time views. I do believe thought the Popes influence them more than they care to admit. I think they relate to popes like Francis, JPII, Pope John XXIII because they show a joy of Christ & seem like one of them.
The Church has been blessed with good Popes for over the last 100 years.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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True but protestant have to relate to them as well. The three I mentioned are seen almost as one of them.
That may be true for a few select Protestants. But I don't think it's true for Protestants as a whole or they would all be Catholics.
 
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Michie

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That may be true for a few select Protestants. But I don't think it's true for Protestants as a whole or they would all be Catholics.
You are misunderstanding. Pope JPII & Francis act like a lot of protestant pastors in their demeanor & action. That's what turns their heads & makes them listen. Protestant admiration does not always lead to conversion.
 
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Ya know, that's kind of profound. The more I think about it, the more it seems like Protestants look to the Pope as an anchor point for their beliefs. Whether they're affirming what he represents or not, he's a representation of Christianity. Whether they fuss and resist it or not, his influence is still there.

I don't know if that makes sense. Essentially I wonder if the Pope influences Protestantism more directly than most Protestants are willing to admit.

The Papacy is a figure that's probably seen more reference from Protestant pulpits than most others.



I thought LCMS Lutherans still believed the Papacy to be the antichrist or something? I know the ELCA shed that belief a while ago but I was under the impression the LCMS still affirmed it. :confused:


I remember a note where a catholic priest went to an anglican church to explain about Anglicanorum coetibus, and he was quite sincere about something that happens with most of us catholics, He was questioned about some teachings of some of the encyclicals of the popes and he had to accept that they were more knowledgable of that document than he himself. And that is true, many protestants who began to inquire about catholicism get tons of literature about the teachings of the church, and they get higher formation than most of catholics.

Some of them even enjoy to read those documents,
 
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