Why live at all?

Profane said:

Why is everyone so focused on avoiding suffering? I enjoy suffering, it reminds me that I'm alive.

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Ok. That's a little concerning, to say the least. Acknowledging the existence of suffering, fine. But enjoying it? Perhaps that was just a poor choice of words on your part. You don't mean to say that you enjoy suffering the same way that you enjoy playing golf (if, for example, golf were your hobby)?

Archaeopteryx said:

Ok. That's a little concerning, to say the least. Acknowledging the existence of suffering, fine. But enjoying it?

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Is that so unusual? I'd be more concerned if I coulden't feel anything and that I was dead inside, sure, there's suffering, both spiritual, mental and phyiscal, but when that happens I'm always somewhat glad that there's something that could make me feel that way.

Sure, I'd rather be happy then suffering, but I'd take either option over feeling nothing at all or death.

Eudaimonist said:

In my experience, that is simply not true.

Certainly, we are social beings, and being helpful to others is part of a good human life, but living for yourself does in some ways contribute to personal happiness.

For instance, when accomplishing something of value to myself, such as graduating from high school and college, I have felt a significant boost to my happiness.

And some of the most depressed people I have known have practiced "living for others", with no particular benefit.

I'm not suggesting that it can't feel good to help a friend in need. I have experienced that too. However, this is not the magic key to a happy life, and certainly not the only key.


eudaimonia,

Mark

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It only ends the suffering of the person being served.

oi_antz said:

It only ends the suffering of the person being served.

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Then I misunderstood what you had meant. I don't think that alleviating the suffering of others literally requires living for them, but certainly there are ways in which we can be helpful to others.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Eudaimonist said:

Then I misunderstood what you had meant. I don't think that alleviating the suffering of others literally requires living for them, but certainly there are ways in which we can be helpful to others.


eudaimonia,

Mark

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Well you take what is being proposed: death instead of life, because there is too much suffering in life. I said that if you choose to live for others, then you will end their suffering. This guy is obviously in pain because he sees suffering that is due to other people living for themselves at the expense of someone else. If those people who inflict the pain were to serve their victims instead, wouldn't that end the suffering? So I said to Asvin that only living for others is going to end the suffering. I suggested this in the context of saying that his act of living for someone else could bring an end to the suffering of the person he is serving. Do you agree with that? I expect you would.

oi_antz said:

I said that if you choose to live for others, then you will end their suffering.

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While I acknowledge the good intention behind that idea, in my reality I observe this approach to be creating suffering everybody involved rather than ending it.

Regarding objective morality, if we assume that such exists, it would seem to me that we have no means of determining what it is. As such, all we can rely on are our subjective opinions about it. Hence, we in effect are all subjective moralists in practice, making this objective morality of no value.

Regarding meaning and purpose, as far as I can tell my life has no objective or external (or eternal) meaning or purpose. However, as I have no idea what it is people are talking about when they discuss the notion of objective or external meanings or purposes, I may be in error on this point. Either way, it is not a concern to me.

Regarding living, I am terrified of going to one of the many hells that I have been threatened with over the years. The safest course, I have decided, is to remain alive. As an immortal, I will never end up in any hell.
























For those uncertain, the previous paragraph was an attempt at humour.

Atheists live shorter lives anyway.

Euthymios said:

Atheists live shorter lives anyway.

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They do?


eudaimonia,

Mark

Eudaimonist said:

They do?


eudaimonia,

Mark

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Do religious people really live longer

It's debatable.

Euthymios said:

Atheists live shorter lives anyway.

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Do you have any stats to back that up?