Fred Phelps Anti-Gay Preacher Was a Democrat

1000Flames · Mar 23, 2014

Sistrin said:
Unless you are trying to promote the canard Republicans think all gays are perverted scum or some such nonsense.

Sistrin said:
Republicans question the motivations, not to mention the sanity, of someone who, while standing in the open street wearing black leather thongs decorated with spikes and chains and a dog collar around their neck attached to another chain being held by someone in a dominatrix mask, screams "help, help, I am being repressed by Republicans!"

Looks like you're promoting it just fine on your own.

Armoured · Mar 23, 2014

1000Flames said:
Looks like you're promoting it just fine on your own.

Not to mention breaking formatting

super animator · Mar 23, 2014

And screen tearing.

MikeCarra · Mar 23, 2014

Sistrin said:
Republicans do not hate gays. We simply don't revere and idolize gays

Of course the liberals will come back and say they don't idolize them either. What they DO idolize is fair treatment.

Just like the Civil Rights movement for African Americans was an effort to push back against hatred and bigotry.

Were the Freedom Riders "idolizing" blacks?

, we don't feel they are worth any special status simply because they are gay.

But isn't it "special status" to tell someone they CANNOT enjoy the same rights as YOU and heterosexuals? That you want for them some sort of "separate but equal" ideal which was a lie for African Americans and is ALWAYS a lie.

The left tends to view gay people in the same sense they would their favored pet, issuing "who's a good dog?"

Well, that's pretty offensive.

platitudes as long as none of them bite their hand by becoming a Conservative Republican.

You mean like Larry Craig?

Republicans question the motivations, not to mention the sanity, of someone who, while standing in the open street wearing black leather thongs decorated with spikes and chains and a dog collar around their neck attached to another chain being held by someone in a dominatrix mask, screams "help, help, I am being repressed by Republicans!"

So you are admitting that the only thing you know about gay people are the EXTREME ends of the spectrum? That your view is wholly informed by cartoons?

Republicans realize the gay rights question isn't one of equal rights but special rights.

That is what they keep saying....but it won't make it true no matter how many times it is said.

We also understand why anyone with any actual knowledge of the civil rights movement rolls their eyes or openly laughs when someone tries to compare the gay rights cause to the civil rights cause.

The more you roll your eyes the more marginalized you become. Truth is truth, no matter how much the Right wants to make it otherwise.

As American citizens gays are protected by and enjoy the same rights as everyone else.

You don't say!

Partner Of Slain Missouri Trooper Denied Survivor's Benefits

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/26/pf/same-sex-social-security/Same-sex couples denied thousands in Social Security

SOunds like the Right is already providing "special rights...of refusal" to gay couples.

Gays could marry whoever they wanted. The point of contention is redefining marriage to fit their agenda.

You are incorrect. They may be able to have "civil unions" and obviously many don't carry any of the same rights you enjoy.

I've got an idea: let's deny YOU the right to call your marriage a "marriage". We'll call it a "Cohabitation Agreement".

Will you be OK with that? I mean it's good enough for the gayz so it must be good enough for you!

This is such a specious argument, that Republicans don't want to treat gays like human beings.

Do humans have a right to be "married" in all 50 states? Do humans have survivorship or visitation rights in all 50 states?

Again, the contention revolves around granting special rights under the law, special rights which allow for one segment of society to impose its views upon another with complete disregard to the rights of others.

Here's a challenge for you: how many states now DEMAND you get gay married against your will?

The contention is allowing gays to use the law to force others to participate in their lifestyle with complete disregard for why they may not want to.

LOL. Sorry. No. You are wrong.

"The institution of marriage is the foundation of civil society. Its success as an institution will determine our success as a nation. It has been proven by both experience and endless social science studies that traditional marriage is best for children. Children raised in intact married families are more likely to attend college, are physically and emotionally healthier, are less likely to use drugs or alcohol, engage in crime, or get pregnant outside of marriage. The success of marriage directly impacts the economic well-being of individuals. Furthermore, the future of marriage affects freedom. The lack of family formation not only leads to more government costs, but also to more government control over the lives of its citizens in all aspects. We recognize and honor the courageous efforts of those who bear the many burdens of parenting alone, even as we believe that marriage, the union of one man and one woman must be upheld as the national standard, a goal to stand for, encourage, and promote through laws governing marriage. We embrace the principle that all Americans should be treated with respect and dignity."

So are you going to take MY marriage rights away from me????

I don't have children...in fact my wife and I decided to NOT have children and I went and got an operation.

All the other stuff up there can be equally applied to gay couples too. But the GOP has to make it a "special right".

Except he wasn't, he was a member of the Democratic party and supported Democrats such as the Reverend Al Gore. But again, special rights...

So because he was registered as Democrat we must assume his ideals in re gay rights is in line with the Dem party and NOT the GOP?

Interesting double standard you have there.

We all know Fred for the fruit he bore.

He could have been a registered member of the Green party or been a member of GLAAD, but it doesn't matter when he pulled out his signs.

And if you think about it: which position is CLOSER to Fred's?

Not that the GOP wants to see gays burn in hell (but you KNOW a lot of them think that is PRECISELY what is happening right now!) but which party is working overtime to make sure gays are reminded that they are NOT to be openly who they are.

And I'm not just talking about the cartoon version you know...I'm talking about the regular folks down the street that unless you put a camera in their bedroom you'll never know.

The GOP has a LOT invested in monitoring people's genital locations. Maybe they should rename themselves the GPSOP (GPS of Penises)

Point being if your goal is simply looking for bigots you will find them everywhere in some number.

This is true. But a GOOD bigot goes the extra mile to assure us that denying some people rights is NOT bigotry.

Sistrin · Mar 23, 2014

1000Flames said:
Looks like you're promoting it just fine on your own.

No, not at all. I could point out the difference between the words "all" and "someone", but I am sure you understand that difference. Instead I will cite the specific impetus for the example. Not all gays attend the Folsom Street Fair, but those who do tend to flaunt in the street dress and activities best kept behind closed doors.

Armoured said:
Not to mention breaking formatting

super animator said:
And screen tearing.

This is all you have?

Savior2006 · Mar 23, 2014

Sistrin said:
No, not at all. I could point out the difference between the words "all" and "someone", but I am sure you understand that difference. Instead I will cite the specific impetus for the example. Not all gays attend the Folsom Street Fair, but those who do tend to flaunt in the street dress and activities best kept behind closed doors.

This is all you have?

Certainly no screen tearing.

Armoured · Mar 23, 2014

Armoured said:
So now if the Republican party can just manage to never have any prominent whackos who spout bizarre and hate filled gibberish, I guess they can claim the moral high ground.

Was the point I raised before you broke the screen, actually.

Sistrin · Mar 23, 2014

MikeCarra said:
Of course the liberals will come back and say they don't idolize them either. What they DO idolize is fair treatment.

They can say that, but in the case of the gay agenda what is being promoted is special treatment.

MikeCarra said:
Just like the Civil Rights movement for African Americans was an effort to push back against hatred and bigotry.

That didn't take long. The comparison of gay rights to black civil rights is a political strategy, one adopted by the left to appeal to emotion. This comparison attempts to portray the issue of gay marriage as equal in scope to breaking the bonds of slavery and advancing equal rights for black people. It attempts to ignore the fact the U.S. Civil Rights movement was one based on race and not sexual preference. The two are not equal.

As stated by historian Eugene D. Genovese, "slavery is unique and without analogue in the history of the United States."

Source: Roll, Jordan, Roll: The World the Slaves Made: Eugene D. Genovese: 9780394716527: Amazon.com: Books

MikeCarra said:
Were the Freedom Riders "idolizing" blacks?

The two issues are not the same.

MikeCarra said:
But isn't it "special status" to tell someone they CANNOT enjoy the same rights as YOU and heterosexuals?

As American citizens gays enjoy the same Constitutional rights as everyone else.

MikeCarra said:
That you want for them some sort of "separate but equal" ideal which was a lie for African Americans and is ALWAYS a lie.

Again you are employing rhetoric which is invalid because it is based on a comparison which is invalid.

MikeCarra said:
So you are admitting that the only thing you know about gay people are the EXTREME ends of the spectrum? That your view is wholly informed by cartoons?

That is a silly argument. Do you even know what the Folsom Street Fair and its associated functions are?

MikeCarra said:
The more you roll your eyes the more marginalized you become. Truth is truth, no matter how much the Right wants to make it otherwise.

Truth is rarely incorporated into the promotion of any liberal/progressive agenda.

MikeCarra said:
Sounds like the Right is already providing "special rights...of refusal" to gay couples.

Your examples are based on the gay marriage not being recognized by either the federal government or state government, not all of which are controlled by Republicans. However if gays wish to attempt changes in the law via the process of redress of grievances fine. Just be honest about what is being done.

MikeCarra said:
I've got an idea: let's deny YOU the right to call your marriage a "marriage". We'll call it a "Cohabitation Agreement".

Who signed DOMA into law?

MikeCarra said:
Here's a challenge for you: how many states now DEMAND you get gay married against your will?

If anyone had made this claim you might be justified in posing such a challenge, but since no one has it is just a strawman. Maybe you should post a photoshop...

MikeCarra said:
So are you going to take MY marriage rights away from me????

Your icon is gender male. You mention your wife. Another strawman.

Defending the definition of marriage as between one man and one woman is listed as part of the Republican platform. You don't like that, fine. But another aspect of that is the recognition of the simple truth the promotion of the liberal/progressive agenda never ends, the desires are never satisfied. If the gay agenda of all fifty states recognizing gay marriage is reached the agenda will not stop, the issue will not go away. To the left enough is never enough. Therefore a line must be drawn somewhere.

MikeCarra said:
So because he was registered as Democrat we must assume his ideals in re gay rights is in line with the Dem party and NOT the GOP?

Assume whatever you want. The Republican party at large did not and does not promote that God hates anybody nor is it part of the Republican platform that gays are not to be treated as human beings or are all scum of the earth or worthy only of hate or any of the other lies the left assigns to the party.

MikeCarra · Mar 23, 2014

Sistrin said:
They can say that, but in the case of the gay agenda what is being promoted is special treatment.

Can you show us this "gay agenda"?

Oh, you can't...because it isn't written down anywhere and is, in fact, totally in the imagination of "social conservatives"?

Wow! I'm surprised!

That didn't take long. The comparison of gay rights to black civil rights is a political strategy, one adopted by the left to appeal to emotion.

Or facts...but if you feel it is "emotional" in your thrust for "separate but equal" marriage, then by all means, go on!

This comparison attempts to portray the issue of gay marriage as equal in scope to breaking the bonds of slavery and advancing equal rights for black people.

You aren't even close on this one. It has nothing to do with the comparison to slavery! It has more to do with inequitable Jim Crow era treatment and "separate but equal".

It attempts to ignore the fact the U.S. Civil Rights movement was one based on race and not sexual preference. The two are not equal.

Thus sayeth Sistrin...let it be written, let it be done!

As American citizens gays enjoy the same Constitutional rights as everyone else.

Ahh, I see your subtle goal shifting. We are now talking only Constitutional Rights, eh? So since marriage isn't discussed in the US constitution, we can simply ignore that!

LOL.

That is a silly argument. Do you even know what the Folsom Street Fair and its associated functions are?

And you think the Folsom Street Fair or the Castro district gay pride parades are what homosexuality IS, eh?

LOL.

Sorry I have to laugh. You see I've hung around some folks who are gay and you'd never know it. Why? Because you are looking for this:

When in reality there are far more who are this:

Your examples are based on the gay marriage not being recognized by either the federal government or state government, not all of which are controlled by Republicans.

Interesting! So when you posted the GOP position statement it was intended to show us how the Republicans are FOR gay marriage???

Maybe you should post a photoshop...

Can't help it that I'm more creative and capable of hammering out this stuff in a matter of minutes that you are! Sorry if I intimidate you...you see on these boards and others I've usually:

1. Generated my own Photoshops
2. Run my own statistics and numbers and generated the graphs etc.

It's funny isn't it...that when someone has abilities a Conservative lacks then suddenly everything that is an "ability" is stoooopid.

LOL.

Your envy and jealousy are noted.

Your icon is gender male. You mention your wife. Another strawman.

So you aren't aware of vasectomies??? Or maybe you didn't read what I wrote.

Assume whatever you want. The Republican party at large did not and does not promote that God hates anybody nor is it part of the Republican platform that gays are not to be treated as human beings or are all scum of the earth or worthy only of hate or any of the other lies the left assigns to the party.

I didn't say they did. I just said they are far more closely aligned with that rhetoric.

It's a relatively short distance between: "you can't have what I have because you are icky" to "you are an abomination before God." to "God hates you."

You call yourself a Christian: what do YOU think is happening to all the dead gay people?

Sistrin · Mar 23, 2014

MikeCarra said:
You call yourself a Christian: what do YOU think is happening to all the dead gay people?

I think that is for God to decide.

MikeCarra · Mar 23, 2014

Sistrin said:
I think that is for God to decide.

OK....you win! The best dodge in the world!

So if it is for God to decide WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WHO CAN MARRY AND WHO CAN GET MARRIAGE BENEFITS DOWN HERE ON EARTH?

Are YOU God-on-Earth? God Pro-Tempore?

You come to sit at the Right hand of the Father, to judge the quick and the dead and to tell us all about the "HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA"!

You carry a heavy burden there.

Archaeopteryx · Mar 23, 2014

Sistrin said:
Republicans do not hate gays. We simply don't revere and idolize gays, we don't feel they are worth any special status simply because they are gay. The left tends to view gay people in the same sense they would their favored pet, issuing "who's a good dog?" platitudes as long as none of them bite their hand by becoming a Conservative Republican.

Special status? No, no, you are confused... Equal status. Equal rights. That thing which Republicans, well the majority of Republicans, are opposed to and flippantly dismiss as "special rights".

This is such a specious argument, that Republicans don't want to treat gays like human beings. Again, the contention revolves around granting special rights under the law, special rights which allow for one segment of society to impose its views upon another with complete disregard to the rights of others.

The contention is passing legislation which allows gays as a group to trample on the constitutionally guaranteed rights of others simply because they are gay. The contention is allowing gays to use the law to force others to participate in their lifestyle with complete disregard for why they may not want to.

Like fundamentalist conservative Christians do?

From the Republican Platform for 2012, here is what the Republican party actually said concerning marriage and family:

"The institution of marriage is the foundation of civil society. Its success as an institution will determine our success as a nation. It has been proven by both experience and endless social science studies that traditional marriage is best for children. Children raised in intact married families are more likely to attend college, are physically and emotionally healthier, are less likely to use drugs or alcohol, engage in crime, or get pregnant outside of marriage. The success of marriage directly impacts the economic well-being of individuals. Furthermore, the future of marriage affects freedom. The lack of family formation not only leads to more government costs, but also to more government control over the lives of its citizens in all aspects. We recognize and honor the courageous efforts of those who bear the many burdens of parenting alone, even as we believe that marriage, the union of one man and one woman must be upheld as the national standard, a goal to stand for, encourage, and promote through laws governing marriage. We embrace the principle that all Americans should be treated with respect and dignity."

Source: Renewing American Values - GOP

Here is an example of what Phelps preached, quote:

"Here again, vile affections is a concept that includes many sins, but we get an exemplar of a particular sin Sodomy. Paul uses this example to show just how far the depraved, condemned human heart will go. Not only is this a grievous sin against God, but it is wholly unnatural, and is an abomination before him. It is a sin that those in the church of Rome would have been very familiar with, because it was prevalent in that godless Roman culture, such that new words were being coined for the sexual acts that Tiberius Caesar was committing. Its the proverbial bottom rung on the ladder of depravity, which makes it a fitting example for Paul to continue making his point that these gross sins are the inevitable and fitting end result, when men thanklessly abandon God and turn to idolatry. We know from such examples as Sodom and Gibeah that when a society has become so collectively hardened that they call this abominable sin a holy thing, that their destruction is right around the corner it is a harbinger a symptom of a deadly raging cancer."

The above quote was taken from the archives of Phelps's sermons. I can't link to the site because a word within the link violates forums rules.

However the contrast is clear. The Republican platform excerpt speaks to the defense of marriage as between one man and one woman. It does not call for the death of gays or the elimination of the gay lifestyle or even the treatment of gays as second class citizens by depriving them of their Constitutional rights. The Phelps comment specifies gays as the harbingers of doom on society and regulates them all to hell.

You don't have to venture far from the official Republican platform to find Republicans that are far less conciliatory than their platform would suggest. It's these Republicans and conservatives that we hear about because they say things approaching the outrageousness of what Phelps would say. They can't hide behind the official platform when they make their sentiments public.

poolerboy0077 · Mar 23, 2014

SolomonVII said:
The logic here is well established from the left that one person carrying a sign at a rally is the whole focus of that rally.

It's not a mere sign that one draws those inferences and makes those generalizations. Are you honestly suggesting the right is not more hostile to gays than the left? You'd be living in an alternative universe.

RedDead1981 · Mar 24, 2014

Sistrin said:
T
As American citizens gays enjoy the same Constitutional rights as everyone else.

Why would that change? Who wants gay people to have rights that straights dont have?

Veritas · Mar 24, 2014

TheYoungTurk said:
Uh, yes she did.

"Virtually every time there is a mass shooting, before any facts are even known, the MSM pegs the shooter as a rightwing wacko. And yet, time and time again it turns out these wackos are actually registered "D's".

And the statement is correct unless you can prove otherwise.

Marius27 said:
Phelps being a Democrat is meaningless and irrelevant to what a horrible person he was.

Except if he was card-carrying member of the Republican party, I'm sure we'd never hear the end of it.

South Bound said:
Kermit Gosnell.

Yikes. However, aren't most abortionists democrats?

TheYoungTurk said:
Welcome to CF.

1000Flames said:
Oops, I should fix my post. I meant to say

Just needs a reduction in the number part.

And yet you all show up in droves just to tell me how worthless, time-wasting and irrelvant my posts are. Imagine if all the conservatives did that to your OP's? Oh, that's right. The Left here is on constant defense these days and rarely posts any threads. What a change from the good ole, Bush days!

SolomonVII · Mar 24, 2014

poolerboy0077 said:
It's not a mere sign that one draws those inferences and makes those generalizations. Are you honestly suggesting the right is not more hostile to gays than the left? You'd be living in an alternative universe.

Oh no. The principle has been well established. One sign is enough to label a whole social movement as racist. If one person's sweet little grandmama is Republican and racist, that means that Republican party as a whole is racist.

We are confronted time and again with this logic in this universe of political discussions. This is the same universe that we are all living in. If it seems weird, bizarre and alternative to you, it is because the leftist logic has made it so.

Fred Phelps is a Democrat who holds a sign God hate f..s. The evidence is therefore irrefutable. Fred Phelps is homophobic and Democrat, therefore it is time to abandon the Democratic party in the search of purity.

Deidre32 · Mar 24, 2014

What an interesting take on Phelps' death. To me, the fact that he justified his bigotry through his religious views is way more troubling than the fact that he was a Democrat.
Priorities, people. lol

Veritas · Mar 24, 2014

Black civil rights and gay rights are not analogous in any way. A person's race is determined by their DNA, a genetic trait. Being gay has never been proven to be genetic.

Nobody is 'born that way,' gay historians say | The Daily Caller#!

For example, historian Dr. Martin Duberman, founder of the Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies, said no good scientific work establishes that people are born gay or straight. And cultural anthropologist Dr. Esther Newton (University of Michigan) called one study linking sexual orientation to biological traits ludicrous: Any anthropologist who has looked cross-culturally (knows) its impossible that thats true, because sexuality is structured in such different ways in different cultures.

While biology certainly plays a role in sexual behavior, no gay gene has been found, and whatever natural-science data exists for inborn sexual orientations is preliminary and disputed. So to date, the totality of the scholarly research on homosexuality indicates gayness is much more socio-cultural than biological.

This whole trying to link the struggle for racial civil rights to one's sexual preferences is absurd. By it's very definition, marriage is a legal union between one man and one woman. That said, I have no problem with gays forming a union for estate and tax purposes. But it cannot be marriage in the traditional sense. It would mean completely changing the definition.

Disclaimer: I have a gay sibling whom I love and support.

SolomonVII · Mar 24, 2014

Deidre32 said:
What an interesting take on Phelps' death. To me, the fact that he justified his bigotry through his religious views is way more troubling than the fact that he was a Democrat.
Priorities, people. lol

We all know of Fred Phelps(RIP) because atheists were very fond of using him as an example of what Christianity is all about. One person holding a sign was sufficient argument to make against the whole of Christianity.

Thank you for revealing my point so well Diedre. You will have a long and happy future at CF. :wave:

Bedford · Mar 24, 2014

Veritas said:
Except if he was card-carrying member of the Republican party, I'm sure we'd never hear the end of it.

Who says Phelps is a card-carrying member of the Democratic party? The link in the OP only says that he ran for office as a democrat. Do you have any of his voting records, and how do you know that he os still a democrat?

Prove to us that Phelps died as a card-carrying member of the Democratic party.

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