33 Christians executed in North Korea. Why does God allow this?

Did someone tell you Jesus was guilty? And what is the first part of Christianity? It's CHRIST.

BTW, Paul was saved.

Life on Earth is a gigantic brutal game. There is no point in trying to make sense of it because there is no point.

Christians are tortured and murdered on this world in order to earn special 'points' in the next. That's basically all there is to it. People should not be under the impression that there is any hope or purpose in this life. Evil wins on Earth.

Sadly I believe there will be more and more of these things happening, at some point probably in North America too, before the Lord returns. I call it "signs of the times" but I totally understand your frustration and your being upset with it, Parogar. (It upsets me too)

Parogar, you don't seem to be listening.

Who wrote, Haters Gonna Hate? That was also just a big "rant" that accomplished nothing.

Parogar said:

It just isn't right. No one should be killed or tortured, or even worse, have forced abortions (which they do all the time) just for believing in Jesus.

In North Korea, if you're pregnant and they find out you believe in Christ, time and time again, the government forces you to get an abortion. It's so evil that I can't believe the world allows this country to exist.

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Most countries are past fighting for moral reasons.

The majority of people simply do not care about things that don't affect them directly or even indirectly.

Tragic, but that's the simple fact of the matter.

Parogar said:

What's really more surprising though is that, despite the guaranteed penalty of death if caught, somehow, Christianity is still managing to spread in North Korea and is becoming more popular. Christians are sneaking into the country and establishing underground churches, and even though when one of these churches is found and its followers either killed or put into death camps, for some reason, Christianity is still finding a way to spread in North Korea.

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Don't you think that's amazing? Don't you think that's astounding? Doesn't that demonstrate the power of the Holy Spirit to you?

A couple of years ago, a Christian pastor was executed in North America and his small congregation of about 22 people (and their extended families) were imprisoned for life.

This pastor had been a minor North Korean government official who, on a rare trip to China, had come into contact with Chinese Christians. He accepted the gospel and returned to North Korea eager to share it.

You have to think about this: The man certainly knew what happens to Christians in his country. He knew it when the Chinese Christian first uttered the name "Jesus" to him (I don't know what techniques Chinese evangelists are using, but they seem to be highly effective). He knew that as a government official, he'd be executed without question.

He knew when he returned to North Korea that every person he attempted to share the gospel with could be the person who would turn him in. Yet, he did it...and even built a small congregation before he was caught.

The Holy Spirit amazes me in things like that. I'm amazed and ashamed of my own paltry activities in His service.

When I was in military intelligence in the mid-90s in South Korea, we got a South Korean intelligence compilation of defector debriefings regarding the treatment of Christian prisoners in North Korea (you may not realize that South Korea is just over 50% Christian now). The defectors were mostly prison guards from those camps.

The stories were too atrocious to recount in public, and people would not believe me if I recounted them in detail--nobody does things like that to people in the experience of anyone reading this thread. It's the kind of thing people see in the worst gore movies. I'll put it in two ways. First, the North Korean guards were actually decorated (given medals) for coming up with creative ways to torture and mutilate these "enemies of the state" short of killing them.

Second, my boss at the time was a Marine colonel who had been an enlisted infantryman in Vietnam, having gone there three times. He had five Purple Heart awards, had been in the 1983 Marine barracks bombing in Lebanon. He had scars running all across his face and scalp--he looked like Frankenstein. He was one of the best bosses I ever had in the military, but if he'd ever chewed me out, I'd probably have cried.

He was an extremely tough man who had seen a lot of horror. But he read three pages into that document, turned white as a sheet, and pushed it away from him saying, "I can't read any more of that @#$#@&."

At the time, we estimated there were about 6,000 Christians in North Korean prisons--that astounded me, considering how oppressed it is. But I've heard more recent estimates of as many as 50,000 Christians in underground congregations.

But Kim Jong Un has done something new. He is setting up a captive "North Korean Orthodox Church" (getting some advice from the Putin regime on how the Soviets managed the Russian Orthodox Church). This is, in a way, an admission that after three generations of the most brutal oppression since Valerian...he can't kill the Church. So he's going to try to control it.

Joining the NKOC will, of course, make those members easy to identify and tracked. I expect that they will be prevented from having any jobs of significance or influence at the very least. I also expect that Christians who refuse to join the NKOC will be executed rather than imprisoned.

But to answer your question of why...because that is the nature of the world and Jesus prophesied it. Just in case you might think there are no longer Christians who will stand in the colosseum for what they believe...now you know they are still doing so.

Willie T said:

Parogar, you don't seem to be listening.

Who wrote, Haters Gonna Hate? That was also just a big "rant" that accomplished nothing.

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This doesn't belong here, Willie.

MOD HAT ON

Stick to the topic! If you're not Lutheran and only here to criticize the other posters, step away because that will not be tolerated.

MOD HAT OFF

Parogar said:

I guess this is my REAL question for the thread.

What does a Lutheran do or feel about this? Is it morally wrong to want to exact vengeance? Is it wrong to hate these people and want to do the same exact things to them as they are doing to people right now?

And if these murderers repented (theoretically) would anyone be willing to personally forgive them for their crimes against humanity?

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Honestly, Parogar, we PRAY. WE PRAY UNCEASINGLY.

Vengeance is for the Lord. Think of what the unbelievers have coming.

Forgiveness? YES, we MUST forgive when one repents. Jesus didn't die on the cross just for the "right" kind of sinner...

I know it's hard. The bible tells us it's going to get harder, too.

We can pray that this man comes to faith, maybe with the help of the very Christians he's persecuting. We don't want to take pleasure in an unbeliever's fate, either. No "I hope he rots in hell" from me on this one. I want him to believe. I want him to be like Paul.

The Bible shows us time and time again that the Christian walk is not easy and there will be persecution. There are also many different kinds. While we don't have executions here in the USA, we still get ostracized for not accepting homosexual activity or being forced to pay for things/provide services we don't agree with. No, I'm not trying to downplay what's happening in North Korea.

Aibrean said:

The Bible shows us time and time again that the Christian walk is not easy and there will be persecution. There are also many different kinds. While we don't have executions here in the USA, we still get ostracized for not accepting homosexual activity or being forced to pay for things/provide services we don't agree with. No, I'm not trying to downplay what's happening in North Korea.

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Yeah things are really hard for us Christians in the USA. We can't marry who we want to, we can be fired from work for no reason and we get denied basic health care because somebody thinks differently then we do. Oh wait.

But to go back to the point of this thread, yes it is perfectly natural to feel hate towards those who perform such acts of evil like this. However, we must pray for the power to forgive, as Jesus forgave those who tortured and executed him. It's hard, I won't lie. But it is something we are called to do, love even those who hate us.