"Legend of Korra", Eastern Views, T.V & Ethics: What Can Christians learn from Anime?

Zoness said:

Greg I will check out your suggestion. It sort of sounds like a Miyazaki movie before Miyazaki. I will let you know what I think. Plus I have something thoughts on Korra after getting current awhile ago.

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Who's Greg, by the way? If you were referring to me, that's not my name nor do I think I'ver ever said it was or said others could call me that

But yeah, if you were speaking to me, let me know what you think. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the suggestion I brought up and definitely look forward to hearing your thoughts on Korra now that you're caught up - was wondering if you finally got through the entire series and saw the final battle Korra had to face

Zoness said:

Haha the typo was a result of it being too late at night for me.

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Okay, cool - figured it had to be that

I'll talk about Korra after work

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Looking forward to it and seeing your thoughts - so glad we're finally caught up

Zoness said:

I'll talk about Korra after work

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You meant after work from yesterday or later?

Zoness said:

That's just me over-promising and under-delivering. I'll get on it after work. I have so much to talk about I will probably address it in segments.

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That makes sense - of course, don't over-promise. It seems like the last season really gave a lot to think about (as I told you it would)

Zoness said:

I have so much to talk about I will probably address it in segments.

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Let me know when you'll actually write a segment so I won't miss it....

Zoness said:

Historically, the conflict between the warring water tribes is a believable one: one kingdom thinks itself superior to another culturally and/or spiritually so it seeks to violate the rights of the other party in order to install their own culture and religion while wiping out of the vassalized nation's identity. I'm glad that we began to address some spiritual things in this season because I find Asian spirituality to be fascinating and its portrayal in LoK is definitely thought-provoking. While it seems as if Season 1 was "materialist" focused (Nationalists, Communists, the relevance of bending questioned), Season 2 was much more supernatural which gave the series some much needed breathing room.

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The Civil War aspect was truly amazing as it concerns the ways the North saw itself as superior and was just as much of a threat as the Fire Nation was with its "Big Brother" mentality in subjecting it so that they could "unify" the nations/make the Southern tribe truly prosperous in the full sense rather than just materially. Amazingly, what they were doing was spiritually corrupt even though their main leader always made it out as if the Spiritual was what mattered/was lost in the South after the 100yr war with the Fire nation.

To see the people of the North (at least in the army) truly believe as they did was very much a historical dynamic that can be traced back to multiple points in history - and not just from a spiritual perspective. Whether you have regimes where Christians or Theistic belief systems began to persecute those who were Non-Theistic in order to "improve them" (i.e. Inquisitions come to mind alongside Witch Hunts and other things) or in systems that were Atheistic and trying to eradicate all forms of Theism/belief in God in order to "enlighten the people" /bring progress as they saw it (like with Mao's Boxer rebellion leading to the oppression of the people of Tibet/monks/millions who died - or what occurred in the Communist Revolution/its persecution of those in the Church and others)......this is a big deal and I'm glad Korra dared to touch on the issue.

And with the spiritual aspect, the focus was more directed - although I appreciated the ways they chose to focus on the ways that it was spirituality that could be JUST as dangerous as anything such as the materialism from the first season in LOK. And as with the last season, seeing how those turning to materialism were complicated in their reasons even as they did damage, so it was with this season with showed Asian Spirituality from two sides - one that showed the need to be more spiritual and the other showing how not all forms of spirituality were ever healthy or opposite from damaging people.

It is for this reason that I honestly felt that Unalaq was truly the best villian brought into the Avatar universe thus far. It has often been the case that others are drawn to the Asian spirituality of the Avatar universe since it's placed within a positive light as if all things pertaining to being spiritual are good - and yet they may not realize that many things are deadly.

As much as it's a temptation to want to look ahead to "Legend Of Korra" Season 3 for potential spoilers, we cannot do so without looking back to what happened in Book 2 of LOK Avatar. For the threat of Unalaq in "Legend Of Korra" may have been worse than Book 1's Amon -- depending on how you look at it. Specifically, while Amon threatened to -- and actually did -- take away Korra's bending for the sake of ending the symbol of what he felt was inequality, Unalaq nearly destroyed the entire Avatar cycle as we know it. ...all for the sake of bringing back the Spiritual focus he felt the world had lost while connecting the Spirit world back with the physical.

Korra would have been able to keep her bending but she was almost the last Avatar to ever exist. And even though Avatar Korra has lost her connection to her past lives, it's still a good trade off for having the rebirth cycle still intact.

But no other Avatar had that battle...

Aang had to fight the evil Firebender nation army for his story, but Korra seems to have had to deal with evil Waterbenders trying to take over the world because both Amon and Unalaq were Waterbenders. ....in addition to Varrick (from a non-spiritual but corrupt perspective) who brought corruption via propoganda and war-mongering for profit.

I'm honestly hoping that perhaps the next season will show us getting evil Earth and Wind benders - as said before, I would love to see an evil Airbending monk abusing their powers and attempting to take over the world....and yet doing so from a spiritual perspective, as that was something Aang's era seemed to miss a lot since their focus was on imperialism and fighting enemies who had a lot of power/might - while Korra's villian in Book 2 was opposite in that he fought from both a power and SPIRITUAL perspective.

I loved seeing the evolution of Unalaq - the fact that he was a corrupt Shaman who was the "hero in his own story" even though he was deadly on every turn.

The fact that he was even able to control somneone like Wan Shi was wild enough - but to control other spirits was no joke..


For when Unalaq explained his master plan to Korra, the main take away, aside from useful exposition that raised the dramatic stakes, was a glimpse into Unalaq’s true ideology. Although some may say he bought into being evil a little too easily, it seemed he was truly corrupted by Vaatu and his lust for power/selfishness that often was used to justify himself when he developed his abilitiy spiritually - yet he genuinely believes that there should be no separation between the Material World and the Spirit World.

In his mind, both worlds were in dire need of a new kind of Avatar and he was willing to be that Avatar. ...even if it meant wiping out the previous one. As the series went on, I went back to study Unalaq since he seemed very fundamentalist initially and yet sympathetic - and yet even as he seemed more and more unhinged as his facade wore off near his end game, he still had valid points..

Unalaq is evil because he is a spirit supremacist who thinks there shouldn't be a barrier between the worlds, and that civilisation should end. And as said in one review:

Unalaq was a formidable foe and managed to do something I didn’t think was possible: he upped the ante compared to Airbender. In Airbender, Aang had to save the entire world from the Firelord. It was a lofty goal, and the importance cannot be understated: the world had been at war for a hundred years. Fireload Ozai was on the verge of burning down the Earth Kingdom.

When Korra was announced, I thought, “There’s no way they can top Airbender. What, are they going to have her save the entire world again?” Korra did save the entire world again, but her mission was no repeat Death Star a la Return of the Jedi. The stakes for Korra were arguably higher.

Unalaq knew exactly what he wanted, and he had the right amount of charm and evil: he managed to coax Korra to his side for a few episodes, remember?

Even more interesting about Unalaq is how Korra actually believed in his message at the end. Unalaq thought that there should be no bridge between the spirit and physical world. Korra surprisingly agreed and united the worlds (well, it remains to be seen how united they are) in a different, less violent way than Unalaq intended.

The only thing I didn’t like about Unalaq was his immense understanding of the spirit world. Why are there so many people this season who seem to know so much about the spirit world, when Aang’s world was basically clueless about spirits?​

And as said before:

An evil shaman was what Unalaq was essentially...


My logic is that there is now a dark Avatar cycle that has been set in motion...

From an artistic standpoint, I immensely enjoyed the Avatar's "Beginnings" micro-arc which not only filled in a lot of back story but was very expressive and interesting in its art form which depicted a world clearly lost to the sands of time and story.

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So true - "Beginnings" was beautiful and one of a kind, episodes that could have been a series in/of itself. It was amazed how they flipped everything in the Avatar universe on its head in the backstory....

And the ART form was very captivating in showing the ancient side of things..

I think that the story of Tenzin's family is important; I think it showed a very human side of Tenzin that he couldn't just "enter the spirit world" but his daughter good. It made it more human and brought him down to a level easier to relate with as a guy who couldn't do it all. Again the overarching Asian spiritual themes are pretty awesome.

These are some of my preliminary thoughts.

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Tenzin did go through a lot of growth and I was glad his family came through..

Amazingly, it is a trip to see how Team Avatar was more of Tenzin's family rather than Bolin, Asami and Mako....the family was wonderful

Zoness said:

Historically, the conflict between the warring water tribes is a believable one: one kingdom thinks itself superior to another culturally and/or spiritually so it seeks to violate the rights of the other party in order to install their own culture and religion while wiping out of the vassalized nation's identity. I'm glad that we began to address some spiritual things in this season because I find Asian spirituality to be fascinating and its portrayal in LoK is definitely thought-provoking. While it seems as if Season 1 was "materialist" focused (Nationalists, Communists, the relevance of bending questioned), Season 2 was much more supernatural which gave the series some much needed breathing room.

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Curious as to what you found fascinating within LoK when it came to the Asian Spirituality as well as the plot dynamic in how it went

Zoness said:

...there's an illustration of how "accessible" religion and spirituality can be or not be. There is a lot of implied cultural restrictions and cultural appropriation doesn't seem to be a concept that anyone is aware of. Ya know, you don't see the average Republic City citizens practicing "air nomad religion" or "southern water tribe mysticism", rather that is left to those ethno-cultural groups.

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The dynamic you noted is something that goes with the underlying theme of how the one thing that was accessible to others was technology - and the ability to join together with others.

The Equalist Revolution could succeed due to others who were benders having better treatment than non-benders - and then adding to the problem was the fact that those not born with certain abilities had to deal with problems alone many times.

Technology - especially in an era where spirtuality was NOT valued and it was solely about who did or didn't have spiritual power - allowed for others to be on an equal playing field. Of course, with the spiritual being a focus, a lot could be done. Sokka's Master was a non-bender with the White Lotus - and yet he was highly spiritual ....and so even those who are not born with bending powers or abilites allowing for more spiritual sensitivities (as a bender) could still be spiritual.













There are others who could be brought up - but the point in saying that is that spirituality was NOT something that was ever meant to be limited to one group alone. Who's to say that only Benders could learn how to enter into the Spirit World or know how to deal with it?

I think the dynamic in Legend of Korra is interesting because spirituality appears to be open to everyone but I am not so sure; it seems to be a gift that some people are born with and others aren't (ex: Tenzin and his daughter) but on the other hand, one can still be a spiritual person and in tune with nature even with natural shortcomings (Tenzin).

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The dynamic of seeing if there are others born with more of a connection to the Spirit world was intriguing - but they resolved it amazingly with Tenzin, as some can train others to enter into places/handle it while others have the ability to enter/sense things and yet have no training on how to handle it and walk in wisdom....

And others have the ability to do damage to the spiritual world by virtue of their abilities or neglect - as was the case with the Avatar IN Korra, who was angering spirits all over the place due to the imbalances she had and the ways she allowed it due to the focus on materialism.

The previous series had a LOT of deistic/animistic spirituality, while Korra has been more about the use of the natural forces as something that can be exploited for material gains (.Which is to say that The Last Airbender was more high-fantasy while Legend of Korra is more science fiction - at least till entering into this season which has brought things full circle)

It's kind of interesting because the way I see Asian spirituality is that it is fascinating and worth studying but I can help feeling that adhering to Eastern religions isn't steeped in a specific ethnic bias (western religions can be and often are the same way). Lots of accusations of cultural appropriation get thrown around, I think people view westerners following an eastern religion with suspicion.

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I think the reality with Asian Spirituality in certain places is that there is an ethnic bias that many are not aware of - especially when considering in other places where looking a certain way means being treated wrongly..

A practical example of this is the Caste system dynamic that's present in Hindu culture, the Indian Caste System and how others who are untouchables....especially with what has occurred with the Black Untouchables. Even Ghandi fell into that sadly (more shared here and here)- something many are unaware of..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRmkJh4P4bg
India Untouched: Darker side of India: 1 [HQ] - YouTube

This is highly relevant, IMHO, when keeping in mind the ways that the North felt it was its right to impose itself on the South - as if it was it's DUTY to be in dominance of the Southern Water Tribe....and using the spiritual side of things to impose that thinking itself more spiritual by nature.

I've generally had an affinity towards most Animistic spirituality (which I realize is hardly exclusive to Asia) for a long time now. I'm not sure what draws me to it, I think the lack of a rigid structure and restrictive rules maybe but it is pretty central to certain cultures and isn't wide open.

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I do think it's very true what you noted when it comes to the Animistic spirituality not being rigid.....



And with the focus on nature being present/having to respect its power, that is also something that you don't see in many other religions. For myself, when seeing the Animistic spirituality aspect, I couldn't help but be reminded on Christianity and the ways others for it have addressed.....for many are not aware of the ways that Christ addresses Folk Religions..

And in the event you've not heard of it, Christian Animism is something many have noted over the years more and more.... as seen in Defining an Animistic Worldview : The Missiology Homepage and Animism: The Default Religion of the World - Missions Mandate and Animism: - International Journal of Frontier Missions


Read a really amazing book on the issue recently called "Along the Silk Road" as it concerns the Silk Road - and it was amazing seeing the different religions that came together/interacted, as well as how they developed - from animism to theism. From Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan to Tajikistan ...to Kashgar, China, to Istanbul, Turkey and so many others pertaining to the peoples of Central Asia and their rich cultures. ...and religious experiences...

[URL="http://www.amazon.com/The-Silk-Road-New-History-ebook/dp/B008YGWQT0"] ​

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Whenever I watched LoK, it reminded me of the ways that there always seems to be a lot of interaction with Animism, Secularism and Theism - Theism not being seen as much in LoK but the other two seeming to interact with one another....and with Theism, I couldn't help but consider the ways that it best addresses the issue of Amimism and Secularism. In many respects...Animistic salvation is utilitarian, selfish, human-directed, and this-worldly....for an animist is chiefly concerned with self as he he seeks power to fulfill his own earthly needs (much as the people in Korra's world sought to appease the spirits in order to have them off their backs) - but conversely, Christian salvation is a response to grace, altruistic and self-giving, God-focused, and includes the immediate as well as the eternal. For a Christian, unlike the earthly focused animist, seeks to fulfill the purposes of God.

Having to do a research project on St. Patrick, I was recently amazed at the ways he went about handling it. For Christianity had a toe-hold in Ireland before Patrick, but the religion in Ireland before Patrick was animism IN ADDITION to belief in superstition, omens, soothsaying, magic, curses and the power of sacred places.

Like the people in Korra's universe when it came to the spirits, the Irish also believed many unpredictable supernatural forces – including shape shifting hidden dangers. Patrick too believed in supernatural force but all coming from a good and loving God. At one point, Patrick made his way to the Hill of Tara, Co. Meath, seat of the high king of Ireland. Arriving on the eve of Easter, he lit a paschal fire on the nearby Hill of Slane. At this time of year, it was pagan practice to put out all fires before a new one was lit at Tara. When the druids at Tara saw the light from Slane, they warned King Laoghaire that he must extinguish it or it would burn forever...but. Patrick was summoned to Tara, and on the way he and his followers chanted the hymn known as "The Lorica" or "Saint Patrick's Breastplate".

Although Laoghaire remained a pagan, he was so impressed by the saint that he gave him permission to make converts throughout his realm. Muirchu's Life of Patrick, written two centuries later, describes a contest of magic in which Laoghaire's druids had to concede victory to the saint. And later Patrick travelled widely in Ireland, making converts and establishing new churches, though he eventually made his headquarters at Armagh.

There's a lot that can be seen with the vibrant gospel witness of Celtic Christians. With St. Patrick, his evangelizing the pagans of Ireland has much to be commended for our day since they lived in Christian community while living in close proximity to those who worshipped many gods. By voice of their preaching and example of gospel living together in good works, Celtic Christianity spread rapidly over Ireland. Their faith was alive to creation with God the Trinity as the great creator. Their theology was very practical and suited to a simple farming people and they did not deal in some of the abstract theologizing that lead to debate throughout the empire. They were faithful to the truth but contextualized it for the agrarian Celts whose historical ties were deep with creation. This is seen powerfully in the Irish prayer known as “Saint Patrick’s Breastplate” (mentioned earlier) dating to perhaps a century or so after Patrick. Though the form that survives most likely is not from the pen of Patrick, yet it certainly encapsulates the Christian faith he established amongst this once barbarous people. It is a prayer dancing with both God and the natural world and ends with a phrase familiar to many who have heard of Patrick.
More can be found in the book entitled "How the Irish Saved Civilization " by Thomas Cahill ...excellent study


As he noted:

The difference between Patrick’s magic and the magic of the druids is that in Patrick’s world all beings and events come from the hand of a good God, who loves human beings and wishes them success.....

This magical world, though full of adventure and surprise, is no longer full of dread. Rather, Christ has trodden all pathways before us, and at every crossroads and by every tree the Word of God speaks out. We have only to be quiet and listen, as Patrick learned to do during the silence of his “novitiate” as a shepherd on the slopes of Sliabh Mis. | This sense of the world as holy, as the Book of God — as a healing mystery, fraught with divine messages — could never have risen out of Greco-Roman civilization, threaded with the profound pessimism of the ancients and their Platonic suspicion of the body as unholy and the world as devoid of meaning....

“It seems that as some point in the development of every culture, human sacrifice becomes unthinkable, and animals are from then on substituted for human victims…At all events, the Irish had not reached this point and were still sacrificing human beings to their gods when Patrick began his mission…Patrick declared that such sacrifices were no longer needed. Christ has died once for all…Yes, the Irish would have said, here is a story that answers our deepest needs – and answers them in a way so good that we could never even have dared dream of it. We can put away our knives and abandon our altars. These are no longer required. The God of the Three Faces has given us his own Son, and we are washed clean in the blood of this lamb. God does not hate us; he loves us. Greater love than this no man has than that he should lay down his life for his friends. That is what God’s Word, made flesh, did for us. From now on, we are all sacrifices – but without the shedding of blood. It is our lives, not our deaths that this God wants. But we are to be sacrifices, for Paul adds to the hymn this advice to all: ‘Let this [same] mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.’ .

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Zoness said:

These are some of my preliminary thoughts.

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What exactly were the other thoughts you were going to share that were not preliminary? Was it on Asian Spirituality, the villian, Korra's actions or other issues?

awitch said:

Fully agree with 1. I felt the love triangle was distracting filler. Perhaps it was meant to play up the characters' immaturity, but it wasn't interesting.

For number I disagree. It would make sense to have firearms if they have combustion engines, aircraft, ships, and explosives that can be set off with wireless detonators, but I like that they don't. Besides still being a cartoon and that level of violence won't make it past American censors, I think it takes away from the world they've created.

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As it concerns firearms, I think it'd make sense to include it seeing that cartoons have already made it past American censors with that (like Batman the Animated series with Tommy Guns and all..or Spiderman where they had all sorts of weapons used to blast at the hero).

Within the Avatar world, they already have combustion engines and the things you noted....and as they already had swords/other weapons used by non-benders, having guns or something similar would make sense. Arrows at the least...

I'll also agree with 3. They went through all that trouble to take away Kora's past lives so don't come up with some convenient plot device to get them all back. We saw Aang do it, so it's more interesting if Kora can't.

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True - it truly makes her unique and sets the stage for how things will be new in the end...

Give or take on 4. Traipsing the world might be much for a single season so it might feel rushed. It would be cool, but I'm OK staying in Republic City.

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I think it should be a good mix of both - but more so on showing the Earth Kingdom and Fire Nation as well...

I disagree on 5. Bending without the motions? No way.

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Indeed..

For number 6, it would seem Kora already is the Avatar after the second season battle.

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Yep - she pretty much proved herself well in battle..

I strongly agree with 7: a human villain would be more interesting than a spirit villain. I like the idea that spirits are not malevolent unless compelled to be so by a human.

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Unlike Vaatu who was malevolent by nature and other spirits who chose to work with the enemy (like Wan Shi Tong who betrayed Jinora after seeing in his view that Unalaq was a true friend of spirits and was feeling still bitter over the actions of Avatar Aang), the spirits do seem to go both ways.

A human villian would be refreshing and an opportunity for a unique enemy without bending who could challenge benders and spirits - although it'd have to be someone who'd take everyone off guard. Sort of like Xanatos from Gargoyles. - fully amoral and yet engaging in the way he views the world and is highly pragmatic in getting the goals done that he feels are worthy, even impacting things concerning the spiritual side of things even though he's not spiritual.

David Xanatos Is a Badass - YouTube

Disagree with number 8: Now that the spirit world and real world are bridged, how can they not have a story about their interaction?

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True...

Agree with 9. I also predicted Verrick would try to capitalize on the spirit world.

Agree with 10: The family turmoil thing has been done with Kora and Airbender already.

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Good points..

11? Sure. Not much to say about things not being what they seem.

12 could be interesting if the spirits see how far humanity has come with technology, but perhaps they retain their superior feelings when they see what we use it for.

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If they could find a way for technology to begin to be fused with the spiritual side of things, that would be amazing....rather than having technology and spirits being opposite of one another, it'd be cool to show that the spirits would either find ways of interacting with it to their goals (if some spirits wanted to keep humans at bay) or show humans who are spiritually attuned to finding ways of making non-benders better at connecting with the spiritual side of things..

Magic and technology don't have to be shown as as competing forces (or at least independent spheres existing side by side) - and I appreciate shows displaying things in the sense of magic-as-science,


The rationalistic and reductionist view of spirituality seems to be more prevalent in the West than in an Eastern worldview of science/religion - such as from China or Japan and what's often found in differing animes were the supernatural, technological and natural were all present.

In the sci-fi/fantasy/horror genres, science will be combined with magic (like the force in Star Wars), with magic sometimes shown to be superior.

The mix of science and magic seems to be on the rise nowadays. They had a comic series on that here in the West, entitled "Battle Chasers"...and it did some of the same, even though the artwork/concept was amazing.






It was like being in the Middle Ages and seeing the magical side contrasted with science (science itself being deemed a type of magic/sorcery). But the genre of stories taking place in an arcanepunk setting is very similar to what we see today. Every item that we see in the series (including the flying ships and the mechanic war-golems) are magic-driven.

On the same token, there was plenty in there to show that there were differing spheres as well. The Skyhold prison is a good example as there were many prisoners in it that were restricted by magical forces. Specifically, Skyhold is a "prison without walls". While the normal human occupants are held in standard cells, the most powerful villians are held in check by the willpower of the Mentu, a high order of monks with powerful psionic abilities.

​

It is here that Ryon del Soya was kept before being freed by Red Monika. However, during their escape, a mana containment center was breached, causing an explosion that disrupted the concentration of the Mentu allowing many powerful criminals to escape - one of them being a powerful/evil Djinn who could only be restrained by monks acting as wardens concerntrating in Eastern style and using their meditation techniques to restrain him.









And to see how they flawlessly merged things together with technology proving a serious challenge to the spiritual or supernatural was a trip...

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Old school T.V Shows like Disney's Gargoyles were very much focused on showing the ways that the concepts of magic/science could overlap and yet be different spheres of influence. world of the Gargoyles, magic most definitely exists in it. In that series, it was treated as a form of energy that can be manipulated in a large variety of ways.

Some notable episodes where such occurred were ones like Reawakening or "[URL="http://youtu.be/0CR5HQZj70I"]III Met By Moonlight" [/URL] or Avalon and The Gathering..



As it stands, interestingly enough, science in the real world is also a sort of descendant of "arcane arts", and it was not that long ago that the two of them parted ways. And to show that in the Avatar universe would be rather amazing. Alchemy led to chemistry, astrology led to astronomy, and physics derives from the same study of the natural world that once inspired all sorts of esoteric disciplines - so to add that into the world of Avatar would make a lot of sense...

Strongly agree with 13. Lin was supposed to be legendary and she's met quite a bit of failure in the past seasons. I also mentioned that when terrorists are blowing up buildings, law enforcement is going to want to follow every lead and she dismissed the obvious one.

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They definitely need to do more with Lin and show her has having A LOT of significance to Avatar Korra and show her how much she means.....they seemed to dumb her down and at times show her at certain points even though she seemed to be present for its own sake.