Christians: How do you know that a god exists?

RestoreMe · Jan 27, 2014

Hello Rattus58

Rattus58 said:
I'm pretty certain that God exists.

Pretty certain does not mean 100% certainty. Every Christian has some degree of doubt which is exactly what Faith is for!

The Faith you have in your wife is not the same as Faith in God. Faith in God is about trusting in him, even though he has not stood in front of your face.

God will not stand in front of anyone and jostle their shoulders because it's faith that separates the believers from the non believers. Those who truly love and trust in God by Faith do not need to test him for 100% objective certainty. We love and trust without it, this is how he tests us. :amen:

This is just what I believe. Thanks for your question!

Rattus58 · Jan 27, 2014

RestoreMe said:
Hello Rattus58

Pretty certain does not mean 100% certainty. Every Christian has some degree of doubt which is exactly what Faith is for!

The Faith you have in your wife is not the same as Faith in God. Faith in God is about trusting in him, even though he has not stood in front of your face.

God will not stand in front of anyone and jostle their shoulders because it's faith that separates the believers from the non believers. Those who truly love and trust in God by Faith do not need to test him for 100% objective certainty. We love and trust without it, this is how he tests us.

This is just what I believe. Thanks for your question!

I understand what you are saying... however, I have no doubts about God. In my mind, to clarify for you, I am 100% certain that he exists and I'm 100% certain that he has answered my prayers.

The faith in my wife and my animals was one of analogy... I don't control them but even when they are not here, have faith in them. People say that they can't see God... but they have faith in him. This may be where you and I depart some, for I see God in all living things.

Much Aloha,

RestoreMe · Jan 27, 2014

Rattus58 said:
I understand what you are saying... however, I have no doubts about God. In my mind, to clarify for you, I am 100% certain that he exists and I'm 100% certain that he has answered my prayers.

The faith in my wife and my animals was one of analogy... I don't control them but even when they are not here, have faith in them. People say that they can't see God... but they have faith in him. This may be where you and I depart some, for I see God in all living things.

Much Aloha,

I would say 100% is knowledge, not Faith. You would not "believe" or "hope" for something (as the scriptures describe Faith) if you know it is 100% certain. In my humble opinion, no one can have knowledge or know 100% of God's existence. I think the closest anyone can be is 99.99999%, the remainder is Trust and Faith

Scott1979 · Jan 27, 2014

Rattus58 said:
Hi Scott.... Is an answered prayer concrete?

Aloha...

Totally. Everybody you talk to has there own way they have experienced God. These experiences give people 100% proof as in your case or not.

Rattus58 · Jan 27, 2014

RestoreMe said:
I would say 100% is knowledge, not Faith. You would not "believe" or "hope" for something (as the scriptures describe Faith) if you know it is 100% certain. In my humble opinion, no one can have knowledge or know 100% of God's existence. I think the closest anyone can be is 99.99999%, the remainder is Trust and Faith

Well not being into the math part of religion too much i think that I can say I trust God, I believe in God and Jesus Christ, and I try to serve as best I can...

If the rest of it is Faith... so be it... :clap:

Thank you... and Much Aloha..

Rattus58 · Jan 27, 2014

Scott1979 said:
Totally. Everybody you talk to has there own way they have experienced God. These experiences give people 100% proof as in your case or not.

They have been.... :clap:

Thank you... Much Aloha...

~Anastasia~ · Jan 27, 2014

Scott1979 said:
I may be wrong but what I think RestoreMe is talking about is 100% concrete fact that God exists. People believe God exists and they have no doubt of it. That's faith. Believing in what you don't know to be 100% true.

Not directing this at anyone in particular, or trying to argue.

But you can go back to the philosophical question of "what can I know with a certainty?" and arrive at the point of "I think, therefore I am". So ... I am 100% certain that I exist. Does the chair I'm sitting in exist? What if I experience it only through my thoughts and I'm not really here ... ??? And so on.

You need to accept some level of "evidence" as allowing you to say that you are 100% certain the chair exists. You can sit in it, you can see it, you can touch it, you can subject it to material things and it will react with some - and you have accepted that your eyes and ears give you reliable information. OK, the chair exists. You are 100% sure now.

You keep allowing for "evidence" at various levels. How much can you trust it? Must you see and touch yourself? Do you trust what scientists tell you is true? Do you believe your parents? Your government leaders? Can you believe what the Bible says is true?

It becomes arbitrary, doesn't it, when we say we are 100% sure of this or that, but not of God.

If God turns out to be the only logical explanation in 100 situations in a row, do you then say it can't be coincidence and it must be God? Are you now 100% sure? If not, do you require 500 trials? Or did you reach certainty at 25 trials?

(Not that I'm saying we should test God, only that we see evidences of Him that are variously credible and variously strong in their suggestion that He exists.)

I'm really not a huge fan of philosophy, most of the time, LOL. But one person can reach 100% certainty, perhaps more easily than another will.

Fortunately, I'm a bit of a skeptic by nature, and God was gracious enough to give me enough "proof" that I could reach no other honest conclusion, and at the same time made my foundation what I believe to be unshakeable. Does that mean I don't have faith? (Not arguing with you.)

I don't think it means that I don't have faith. It might mean that I'm hard-headed and difficult to convince, and that further my potential for faithfulness is weak, so that He knew I'd NEED so many "proofs" in order to hang in there.

I love that He gives each of us what we need, when we need it.

Sometimes we just have to get desperate enough.

Rattus58 · Jan 27, 2014

Kylissa said:
Not directing this at anyone in particular, or trying to argue.

But you can go back to the philosophical question of "what can I know with a certainty?" and arrive at the point of "I think, therefore I am". So ... I am 100% certain that I exist. Does the chair I'm sitting in exist? What if I experience it only through my thoughts and I'm not really here ... ??? And so on.

You need to accept some level of "evidence" as allowing you to say that you are 100% certain the chair exists. You can sit in it, you can see it, you can touch it, you can subject it to material things and it will react with some - and you have accepted that your eyes and ears give you reliable information. OK, the chair exists. You are 100% sure now.

You keep allowing for "evidence" at various levels. How much can you trust it? Must you see and touch yourself? Do you trust what scientists tell you is true? Do you believe your parents? Your government leaders? Can you believe what the Bible says is true?

It becomes arbitrary, doesn't it, when we say we are 100% sure of this or that, but not of God.

If God turns out to be the only logical explanation in 100 situations in a row, do you then say it can't be coincidence and it must be God? Are you now 100% sure? If not, do you require 500 trials? Or did you reach certainty at 25 trials?

(Not that I'm saying we should test God, only that we see evidences of Him that are variously credible and variously strong in their suggestion that He exists.)

I'm really not a huge fan of philosophy, most of the time, LOL. But one person can reach 100% certainty, perhaps more easily than another will.

Fortunately, I'm a bit of a skeptic by nature, and God was gracious enough to give me enough "proof" that I could reach no other honest conclusion, and at the same time made my foundation what I believe to be unshakeable. Does that mean I don't have faith? (Not arguing with you.)

I don't think it means that I don't have faith. It might mean that I'm hard-headed and difficult to convince, and that further my potential for faithfulness is weak, so that He knew I'd NEED so many "proofs" in order to hang in there.

I love that He gives each of us what we need, when we need it. Sometimes we just have to get desperate enough.

Being of simple mind... three in a row does it for me...

Much Aloha...

~Anastasia~ · Jan 27, 2014

Rattus58 said:
Being of simple mind... three in a row does it for me...

Much Aloha...

Perhaps in the end you will be more blessed for that, instead of my case being one that emulates Thomas in some ways.

Though that is the first time I've placed myself on that side of that particular fence. I used to take comfort in the fact when I first read Jesus' words on the subject that at least I believed without having to touch and handle ...

The point is though, that I believe.

Scott1979 · Jan 27, 2014

Kylissa said:
Not directing this at anyone in particular, or trying to argue.

But you can go back to the philosophical question of "what can I know with a certainty?" and arrive at the point of "I think, therefore I am". So ... I am 100% certain that I exist. Does the chair I'm sitting in exist? What if I experience it only through my thoughts and I'm not really here ... ??? And so on.

You need to accept some level of "evidence" as allowing you to say that you are 100% certain the chair exists. You can sit in it, you can see it, you can touch it, you can subject it to material things and it will react with some - and you have accepted that your eyes and ears give you reliable information. OK, the chair exists. You are 100% sure now.

You keep allowing for "evidence" at various levels. How much can you trust it? Must you see and touch yourself? Do you trust what scientists tell you is true? Do you believe your parents? Your government leaders? Can you believe what the Bible says is true?

It becomes arbitrary, doesn't it, when we say we are 100% sure of this or that, but not of God.

If God turns out to be the only logical explanation in 100 situations in a row, do you then say it can't be coincidence and it must be God? Are you now 100% sure? If not, do you require 500 trials? Or did you reach certainty at 25 trials?

(Not that I'm saying we should test God, only that we see evidences of Him that are variously credible and variously strong in their suggestion that He exists.)

I'm really not a huge fan of philosophy, most of the time, LOL. But one person can reach 100% certainty, perhaps more easily than another will.

Fortunately, I'm a bit of a skeptic by nature, and God was gracious enough to give me enough "proof" that I could reach no other honest conclusion, and at the same time made my foundation what I believe to be unshakeable. Does that mean I don't have faith? (Not arguing with you.)

I don't think it means that I don't have faith. It might mean that I'm hard-headed and difficult to convince, and that further my potential for faithfulness is weak, so that He knew I'd NEED so many "proofs" in order to hang in there.

I love that He gives each of us what we need, when we need it. Sometimes we just have to get desperate enough.

If you look at it like that there is very little we can be certain of.

~Anastasia~ · Jan 27, 2014

Scott1979 said:
If you look at it like that there is very little we can be certain of.

I don't actually look at it like that. I didn't enjoy having to run through those kinds of debates, generally speaking.

No, God has more than given me adequate reason to believe in Him. I'm one of those who would say I'm 100% sure. It would be harder for me NOT to believe than to believe at this point.

But ... I still think I have faith.

And I believe my chair exists, and my house, and my car, and my husband, daughter, and cat. I even believe in the electrons and microbes I can't see, and air too.

Scott1979 · Jan 27, 2014

Kylissa said:
I don't actually look at it like that. I didn't enjoy having to run through those kinds of debates, generally speaking.

No, God has more than given me adequate reason to believe in Him. I'm one of those who would say I'm 100% sure. It would be harder for me NOT to believe than to believe at this point.

But ... I still think I have faith.

And I believe my chair exists, and my house, and my car, and my husband, daughter, and cat. I even believe in the electrons and microbes I can't see, and air too.

I just expressed my opinion. I'm not going to hijack a thread about this. You said your piece and I did mine. This is done.

Akureyri · Jan 28, 2014

Jeffwhosoever said:
Who could realistically believe that we all got here by random chance? If I were walking on the beach and came across a nice Lamborghini, would I say to the car, wow, look what happened over billions of years of evolution, or would I say, I wonder who designed and made such a fine auto vehicle? Now, how does that motor vehicle compare to the complexity of a human being?

Have you seen an auto vehicle which was not designed? If not, then how could you distinguish between one that was designed and one which was not designed?

Let me ask you another question. You want to know how we know that God is real. Do you have a family? How do you know their love for you is real?

I'm glad you asked. I know their love is real by watching their actions. I have never seen any actions of any god. If you have, then how do you know those actions are actions of a god?

How do I know God is real? Because by knowing Him, I became a different person.

How do you know that you became a different person because you know God?
How do you know for sure that you really do know God?

The corollary of your question, is, how do you know that God doesn't exist?

If you're positing a logically impossible God (e.g. one that knows everything and can do anything or one that loves everyone and can do anything), then simple logical deduction tells me such a god doesn't exist. However, if you posit a god that is not logically impossible, I don't know for sure that it doesn't exist. But the amount of evidence I'd need to believe such any claim would have to be in sync with how substantial a claim is. For example, if you claimed you owned a dog, I would only need your word to believe you. However, if you claimed you owned an interstellar spacecraft, I would have to see it first hand.

Akureyri · Jan 28, 2014

Kylissa said:
There are many other reasons, but I simply chose to give you one.

By the sheer magnitude of what I discovered. Had I discovered a few sentences, a few principles, I could easily discard it as coincidence. When the evidence becomes a mountain, I would be foolish to do so.

So you don't know what is the cause of this coincidence, but you call it God. Do you know for sure that this coincidence is caused by a supernatural force? If so, how do you know?

Unless you wish to posit that fairies or maybe elves read the Bible, whispered in my ear at night, and tried to convince me God exists. Oh, and then read my mind, and arranged for answers to hundreds of prayers. And arranged for many other coincidences as well. I could go on ... but you see, it's ridiculous.

I simply know. I'm not here to prove anything to you, but I did answer your questions. What you choose to do with that is up to you.

I'm not interested so much in what you know, but how you know these things.

Akureyri · Jan 28, 2014

oi_antz said:
Does God want everyone to believe he exists?

Click to expand...

I don't know. I think He probably would prefer that, but if He wanted that then I imagine He would probably get it.

Thank you for being humble and admitting you don't know. Why do you suppose so many Christians claim they know things they don't really know?

Is God capable of doing anything?

Click to expand...

I expect so.

Do you believe God can stop rapists from raping children? Do you believe God can prevent diseases from causing millions of young children suffer terribly?

If Yes to both, then we can conduct tests on God.

Click to expand...

Why does it have to be conditional on those questions? Why not just test according to His expected behaviour?

The expected behavior of a god is to do nothing. Say "hi" to God and you get no response. That tells you if an all-powerful and all-knowing god exists, that he doesn't really care enough about the person who said "hi God".

Did God reveal himself to all of those who obeys the commandments? If so, how did the people know it was God?

Click to expand...

I don't know. You would have to see if you can find someone who claims to have accepted His commandments and chosen to obey Him, who claims that He hasn't revealed Himself to them. I think your second question is answered in Luke 11:11-13.

11 Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[a] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!

I asked how did the people know it was God. Luke 11:11-13 doesn't explain how those people knew it was God. So how could those people have known it was God?

Akureyri · Jan 28, 2014

TPeterY said:
I'm tempted to answer all those questions but I'm trying to figure out whether if you're here just to kill time or is really looking for answers.

I'm trying to get a better understanding of why Christians claim to know things they don't really know.

I just joined this website a week ago because God wanted me to help others find Him, grow and get to know Him personally.

How do you know God wants you to help others find him?

I noticed there's a lot of people on this website asking questions daily so I can't devote my time debating unless the person is serious about considering God, as I need to help others too.

I'm willing to consider something to be real if the evidence supports the claim. What sort of evidence do you have that a god exists?

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you some questions instead of thinking you're here to kill time. So lemme ask you this, did something happened to you in your childhood years that cause you to disbelieve God?

Not applicable. I was born without the belief that a god exists and have never been provided sufficient evidence that a god does exist.

I just wanna know why is it so hard to believe something?

It's not hard to believe something - provided the evidence supports the claim. Do you have evidence to support the existence of your god?

~Anastasia~ · Jan 28, 2014

Akureyri said:
So you don't know what is the cause of this coincidence, but you call it God. Do you know for sure that this coincidence is caused by a supernatural force? If so, how do you know?

I'm not interested so much in what you know, but how you know these things.

Let me ask you this, Akureyri ...

If you flipped a coin ten times and it came up heads every time, and you check the coin and found it was a normally balanced 2-headed coin, what would you think?

Then flip it another 200 times, and watch it come up heads every time.

Would you still call it a coincidence, or would you think something else must be going on?

My evidence is the sheer volume of "coincidence" without variation. Plus the nature and volume of knowledge that I have that has no explanation for how it got there. Clearly SOMETHING out of the ordinary is going on.

The only other possible explanation I can imagine is that something other than God is making a special and concerted effort to convince me that it is, in fact, God. I see absolutely no support for that idea, and find it absurd.

As I said, there is more, but this is what I offer for now.

Rattus58 · Jan 28, 2014

Kylissa said:
Let me ask you this, Akureyri ...

If you flipped a coin ten times and it came up heads every time, and you check the coin and found it was a normally balanced 2-headed coin, what would you think?

Then flip it another 200 times, and watch it come up heads every time.

Would you still call it a coincidence, or would you think something else must be going on?

My evidence is the sheer volume of "coincidence" without variation. Plus the nature and volume of knowledge that I have that has no explanation for how it got there. Clearly SOMETHING out of the ordinary is going on.

The only other possible explanation I can imagine is that something other than God is making a special and concerted effort to convince me that it is, in fact, God. I see absolutely no support for that idea, and find it absurd.

As I said, there is more, but this is what I offer for now.

Don't you sometimes get the feeling that several on here follow the same theme patterns that lead absolutely nowhere... to where of course they seem comfortable... I mean if yer nowhere you can't be lost... if you're somewhere, you're somewhere new.... and that is sorta what a walk with God is like for me... and it's true I've not been the best at map reading... But there is always a light somewhere for the asking.. nicely.. with a little humility and the trips are always exhilarating ...

Aloha..

~Anastasia~ · Jan 28, 2014

Rattus58 said:
Don't you sometimes get the feeling that several on here follow the same theme patterns that lead absolutely nowhere... to where of course they seem comfortable... I mean if yer nowhere you can't be lost... if you're somewhere, you're somewhere new.... and that is sorta what a walk with God is like for me... and it's true I've not been the best at map reading... But there is always a light somewhere for the asking.. nicely.. with a little humility and the trips are always exhilarating ...

Aloha..

Yep ...

earningmywings · Jan 28, 2014

I don't..it's called faith
The best way for myself to explain it , is rather like a scene in Indianna Jones where he steps out into a void to cross a canyon and the moment he takes the step into thin air , big towers of rock come up to meet him.
That to me is faith..it will only happen when you step out to meet it and only when you take the step will you know for sure. Until then, you will always "have no proof"
I will never know with absolute certainty till the day I die, but until then I trust in the relationship and experiences I have had with my "faith"
In my view God does not need to "prove" himself, nor do I need to explain his existence.
It is simply a choice, we believe or we don't.
Maybe you just need to ask yourself, other than this man called Jesus, who else has ever claimed to love you so much they are willing to die trying? Might be worth a little step one day..Just a thought
what a great question to ask and thank you for your thread

Christians: How do you know that a god exists?

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