Deliverance Ministry

Willie T said:

Should you concentrate on trying to learn to know your enemy... or should you know your Commander-in-Chief, and his decrees, since he already knows all about the enemy?

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Both actually - but with balance.
We want pure & deep intimacy with Yeshua HaMashiach, and we want to be aware of how the enemy works as well so we are not ignorant or causing harm to others who have been through horrible things unaware.
Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices - 2 Cor 2:11

What's that saying? "It's not paranoia if THEY really are out to get you!!"


I have no way to prove that there is not huge satanic conspiracy taking over the world. If I point out the fact that there isn't a scrap of evidence to prove it, the "true believer" will simply take that to mean that these people are even smarter and more dangerous than they thought!


All I can say, is that there are certain things that seem to work in the spiritual realm, and things that don't. Just like how things happen in church. There are certain things we can do to invite the Holy Spirit into a meeting, and there are theories and beliefs that never seem to pan out. Those who are sensitive to the Spirit just shake their heads at those who keep trying the same theory over and over again expecting different results. But when God does something many people can tell it's real. Even if it defies the pastors expectations.


The demonic realm is just the same. We can hold theories about what will work and why, but the true test is: does it work? What is the fruit of studying all about the common beliefs of those in Spiritual Warfare and Deliverance? Does it bring you closer to God? Give you instant victory over the enemy? Or does it feed a driving lust inside of those types of people, letting them have a "Christian" excuse for studying demonology? Fueling the exact same pride we see in those who are actually in the Occult, saying "Look at me! I know so much. Don't you ever question my knowledge or make me look like a fool, cause I will rip. your. head. off..."

*raises hand* I've been there.


As Christians, we are presented two completely different ideas about the spiritual realm. Many believe that God is in control. That the demons are subject to Him, and therefore we hardly need to give them a second thought.

The opposing view is that there is a desperate cosmic struggle between God and Satan; and Satan seems to be winning. God has lost control, and the Devil seems to get away with doing most anything he wants to Christians. The Christian's only hope then is to learn how to fight back and defend himself, because God won't do much for him otherwise.

I not only believe in example #1, but have experienced it for quite some time now. God takes care of me, just like the Bible teaches. It is not conditional that I know all of the wiles of the enemy! In fact, I can now see that my worst enemy was always me. Because it was me choosing other gods before Him; me choosing the darkness instead of the Light. So of course the demons always got a foothold! I was a double-minded man.

Those in Spiritual Warfare do often see only a world of hostile spirits. Why? Because... well, try this sometime. Walk down the street in full body armor, carrying a machine gun and an assortment of grenades and other weapons. Then see how many nice and friendly people you meet!

Trust me, all the nice and friendlies will go running inside their houses, while the police and other military types will be standing there with their weapons drawn! That's what happens in the spiritual realm too when you think that all spirits (no matter what shape size or color) are servants of Satan. But spirits are just as complex as we are, and are not all recruited as covert warriors for Satan's kingdom.

I've seen a whole different side to the spiritual realm, when I put down my weapons and started to walk though life as a son of the King; as more than a conqueror who's daddy already won the battle, so he doesn't need to even know how to fight!

Just for the record, we are told in scripture that it will appear the saints are losing the battle as satan attacks in the days of darkness.. you're familiar with that scripture right?

Those in Spiritual Warfare do often see only a word of hostile spirits. Why? Because... well, try this sometime. Walk down the street in full body armor, carrying a machine gun and an assortment of grenades and other weapons. Then see how many nice and friendly people you meet!

Trust me, all the nice and friendlies will go running inside their houses, while the police and other military types will be standing there with their weapons drawn! That's what happens in the spiritual realm too when you think that all spirits (no matter what shape size or color) are servants of Satan. But spirits are just as complex as we are, and are not all recruited as covert warriors for Satan's kingdom.

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I don't know what people you've met who are "in spiritual warfare" (we live it btw & SW is all around a believer 24/7 - you don't have to think about it all the time for it to be true).. but I don't know any one who fits this strange stereo-type you've given... Ok maybe I do know one or two now that I think of it, lol. But aside from those 2, your description is really off the wall for those who are called to deliverance.

I got a kick out of your illustration though, it was fun reading

HisSparkPlug said:

Just for the record, we are told in scripture that it will appear the saints are losing the battle as satan attacks in the days of darkness.. you're familiar with that scripture right?

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I can't imagine which passage you are talking about. So... no.

I don't know what people you've met who are "in spiritual warfare" (we live it btw & SW is all around a believer 24/7 - you don't have to think about it all the time for it to be true).. but I don't know any one who fits this strange stereo-type you've given... Ok maybe I do know one or two now that I think of it, lol. But aside from those 2, your description is really off the wall for those who are called to deliverance.

I got a kick out of your illustration though, it was fun reading

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I've been a deliverance minister at church, and have been involved in spiritual warfare since my H.S. days. I've met lots of people who fit the description! Myself as example #1.

Mostly though, I was attempting to explain why many Christians only see the "hostile" side of the spiritual realm, whenever they are doing anything besides worshiping God in church. I place a lot of validity in what we can see and experience in the spirit, rather than rely upon theories only. I think it is a mistake to think that the spirit realm is not anything at all like it appears; presuming instead that the Devil is fooling us at every turn or every entity is a demon in disguise. Many Christians trade in their own good senses in exchange for Christian folklore beliefs, which are neither Bible based nor what anybody sensitive to the spirit world experiences.

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Tobias said:

I can't imagine which passage you are talking about. So... no.

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4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. - Revelation 13: 4-7 kjv

This is what it will look like in these end times until the Lord comes to visit His people and enable them to rise up & be the overcomer instead of the 'overcome'

I've been a deliverance minister at church, and have been involved in spiritual warfare since my H.S. days. I've met lots of people who fit the description! Myself as example #1.

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ok, so what you're saying is that you are familiar with casting demons out of people then, right? - That means you understand that one needs to actually admit there are demons and know a little about D's and this sort of ministry to function in it. Jesus sent those who were ready out to do this. If my assertion here is correct, then I'm glad you are not like the stereo-typed deliverance workers you described.. Lol

Just for the record, we are told in scripture that it will appear the saints are losing the battle as satan attacks in the days of darkness.. you're familiar with that scripture right?

Those in Spiritual Warfare do often see only a word of hostile spirits. Why? Because... well, try this sometime. Walk down the street in full body armor, carrying a machine gun and an assortment of grenades and other weapons. Then see how many nice and friendly people you meet!

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Trust me, all the nice and friendlies will go running inside their houses, while the police and other military types will be standing there with their weapons drawn! That's what happens in the spiritual realm too when you think that all spirits (no matter what shape size or color) are servants of Satan. But spirits are just as complex as we are, and are not all recruited as covert warriors for Satan's kingdom.
I don't know what people you've met who are "in spiritual warfare" (we live it btw & SW is all around a believer 24/7 - you don't have to think about it all the time for it to be true).. but I don't know any one who fits this strange stereo-type you've given... Ok maybe I do know one or two now that I think of it, lol. But aside from those 2, your description is really off the wall for those who are called to deliverance.

I got a kick out of your illustration though, it was fun reading

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Also, what you concentrate on, (ie: Law vs Grace) is what you will find yourself drawn to.

(The idea behind... What you feed, grows; what you starve, dies) I think that is why we are told to keep our eyes on Jesus. Hand to the plow, and don't look back.... Peter looking at the waves and wind instead of Jesus.... the straight road, neither left nor right... No other name... lean not on your own understanding... and several others I'm sure you can recall.

FoundInGrace said:

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FoundInGrace said:

Glad that mostly we agree

Putting on the whole armour.. only one piece of that out of many pieces is about investigating the enemy. To me that says the bulk of our focus is to be on standing in Christ, walking in righteousness, knowing the Word/Truth about God so we can stand and are ready to share the gospel.
what i'm saying is the balance in what we fill our minds with is important. If there is too much focus on the demonic (and there is a lot of silliness Christians will believe lets face it!) then the devil not Christ gets glorified. There are many so distracted and so fascinated by weird spiritual rubbish that they have lost sight of the simple truths like repent and draw near to God.

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Yes Fig,

I say all below in love and honesty!

I am pleased that you are glad that you mostly agree with what I said. Did you agree with anything I added to what you had said?

We can do all what we say: “Put on the whole armour of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil” (Eph. 6:11).

But the word “wiles” covers many things such as deception through trickery, which would be to the deepest level, and wouldn’t be some schoolboy deception. The evil one, and his forces of “principalities and powers” are in “high places”, such as government departments where they are strongest, and they will use all their power and control through being cunning and skilled in stealing, destroying and killing that they would apply to no good purpose, but for evil reasons.

Our enemy is the master of wiles and lies.

He lies to us, wants to trap us, discourage us and snares us, and he does that through those people who are in power, those flesh and blood who don’t know they are being controlled by the “principalities, powers, rulers of darkness and spiritual hosts”, and I find such people in the Body of Christ.

He will use his forces to do anything that he can do with cunning satanic diversity to weaken us and destroy us. He goes to work daily to produce hindrances, uncertainties, lack of sympathy, loss of patience and self-control, and imbalance. He is our chief enemy, but deals in wiles and intense strategy through the flesh and blood who are in bondage, within and without.

Of course we have to stand in our Lord Jesus Christ, because if we didn’t we wouldn’t be able to do those things as HIS Disciples, as most are doing right now, on this forum. Yair righteousness and knowing the truth is only a few things, there are twenty other truths or more that you are not focusing on. Which part of the Gospel do you share---ALL or just parts thereof?

FIG, in the military many saw the balance of Christians, the balance you talk about as balanced Christians laid down their arms and held their hands up in surrender and were gunned down by the terrorists.

Please get off this bandwagon and stop accusing us of giving glory to Satan, we are talking about how to set people free from Satan and his forces, the very weapons that the enemy are holding many Christians to bondage to through religious spirits and the leviathan spirit that are many in the Body of Christ today.

And don’t accuse another believer that what we are sharing is SPIRITUAL RUBBISH, because I can assure you that I haven’t lost the simple truths, because your simple truths of REPENT and DRAW near to God, is only two of the twenty odd truths of the Gospel. Here are some of them, and if you can answer them, then we all might be on the right playing field.

When was the last time you confessed sin?
When was the last time you repented sin?
When was the last time you forgave another person?
When was the last time you asked another person for forgiveness?
When was the last time you submitted to our Messiah? (You did say draw, but no mention about submission!)
When was the last time you cleansed your hands through confession, repentance, and forgiveness?
When was the last time you purified your heart through confession, repentance and forgiveness?
When was the last time you said: I ADMIT, I MADE A MISTAKE?
When was the last time you said: YOU DID A GOOD JOB?
When was the last time you said: WHAT IS YOUR OPINION?
When was the last time you said: IF YOU PLEASE?
When was the last time you said: I NEED HELP?
When was the last time you said: I NEED ADVICE?
When was the last time you said: YOU ARE RIGHT?
When was the last time you said: I AM WRONG?
When was the last time you said: I AM SORRY?
When was the last time you said: I LOVE YOU?
When was the last time you said: THANK YOU?
When was the last time you said: WE?
When was the last time you said: I?
When was the last time you let the sun set on anger?
When was the last time you allowed the root of bitterness to swell up?
When was the last time you were not humble?

FIG, I not trying to offend you, but these are the simple home truths of our Yeshua HaMashiach Gospel of TRUTH that you are talking about, and if you can get a perfect score then you will speak Biblical truth!

And I agree wholeheartedly that REPENTANCE is one thing most of us shy away from, we don’t speak the word: “I tell you, nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:3)

Blessings.

Tobias said:

I honestly don't care if Satanists can track me. What are they going to do about it? What power does the darkness have over the Light?

I'm not paranoid if the Government can spy on me with their satellites either. I'm not breaking any laws, so who cares?


No discussion about deliverance is worthwhile if we don't give God the proper glory. It's easy to make it sound like the enemy is so great, and so troublesome that we forget he has already been conquered! The only thing we really have to be concerned with is what misguided people try to do in his name.


I have never been in the military. My Dad was a missionary pilot when I was growing us, so I lived in Ecuador and Papua New Guinea. Now I live in Crestline California, which is Mike Warnke's hometown. In his book The Satan Seller, Warnke lied to Christians about being a high priest of Satan. He claimed to have once summoned a demon and sent it to burn down a building, and his friend being in awe as it burnt to the ground. But the building is still standing here in town, untouched by any demonic flames.

Crestline is one town over from Hesperia, which is where Rebekkah Brown and Elaine lived. In her book, He Came to Set the Captives Free, Brown lies about all sorts demonic and satanic happenings. I found my copy of the book at Chick Publications soon after it first appeared. I used to go to the same church as Jack Chick, and during my HS years lived within walking distance of his print shop (and attached little bookstore). I know what sort of man he is, and how he would print any delusional story as long as it fits his worldview.


Needless to say, I take issue with Christians lying to other Christians about Satanism. I admit, "Once bitten, twice shy." I have no proof that this stuff is not happening. Just like I have no proof that aliens haven't landed in Washington and have taken over the government!

But as people we have the responsibility to determine what we find believable and what is most likely not. We have to figure that some people find life too boring as it is, and create fantastic stories to make it more tolerable. That doesn't mean there isn't any truth to those stories! But we do need to know when things are blown completely out of proportion.

One person living in a war zone is going to imagine the entire world is on fire. When really, their perception is only local. I think this is often the problem with Deliverance. I felt it too when I was in the thick of it! Now I understand that some people really do need to just avoid talking about it altogether, because it brings them down, reduces their faith, and actually makes inroads for the enemy.

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Hi Tobias,

The sad thing about this subject it has started from a simple question for people their views. Now I don’t believe your views were views but being impersonal. The article wasn’t intended to bring into about Satanists can track you; I would be more worried about your government over the next nine months, particularly if you have any weapons in your home.

There is nothing about paranoia mate, if they can track us or not, but during the tracking there is other things that come with it, and that is malicious targeting that have experienced for decades, and because you haven’t experienced it then that doesn’t make you right and the other people wrong. The sad thing about it that there are many Christians who they are being demonically attacked when they are being electronically attacks, and they are hearing voices and feeling strange manifestations in their body. They go through all the paraphernalia for freedom and it begins to get worse. Then they look to deliverance, and they get worse. Deliverance ministry people need to be able to discern between the supernatural and targeting including extreme illnesses.

Many Christians suffer from minerals and amino acids that put their body out of whack, something I had explained and shared many pages back when dealing with MPD and Bipolar. Your body is out of whack and is acidic can cause all the symptoms of being demonised. And what I have been saying for a very long time that the awareness of deliverance ministry is very one-sided and haven’t gone into the facts of healing a real human body by natural means, such as supplements and the right food.

Well, if you feel that deliverance isn’t worth the trouble to discuss, then what in the world are you here for causing this unnecessary debate?

Yes there are a lot of misguided people, and you just have to sort out the wheat from the tares, and the sheep from the goats.

Sorry, I thought you said you were in the military at one time or another, my mistake!

Yair may be Rebecca Brown and Mike Warnke has said much, but you or anyone else isn’t in a place to judge them on such things when we have no knowledge or understanding, because their information could be true. What proof have you got? I can say that I have had many encounters with Satanists in the past, and I know basically what they are talking about.

Yes, I had a large bushfire around our home, and I lived on 10 acres, and the whole bush was burnt out around our home up to 50 metres of our home, and through our next door with a garden hose and the help of God’s Angels our house was saved.

Yes, I can accept that mate, as all false teachers are liars, and I can’t accept that they are just deceived. The spirit of mammon has much control of teachers and prophets and they all love to tickle the itchy ears. Our Yeshua tells us when they lie to forgive them and love them.

Crikey mate and I haven’t any proof that they landed on the moon either. Maybe the aliens on the moon chased them away or hitched a ride back with them, and now living in the Pentagon. I suppose you don’t believe in ghosts either!

Tobias, you seem to forget there are many members in the body who have many Special Gifts given to them from our Messiah, and I guess you don’t believe that there are Watchmen either? Well mate, the Spirit of God will tell you if it’s a lie or not and when he does I hope you say that you forgive him and love him. You know mate, just by doing that you will be amazed that the person may stop lying.

You have a strange sense of perception. Now I can’t accept deliverance ministry either, because in my day it was called the healing ministry, and counselling was the most important part of the ministry. We coached the people through overcoming and conquering their hurts and offences, bring them to forgiveness and repentance, and then to love those people they have forgiven. But at the same time we brought them to make sure they are forgiven for the people they hurt and offended. There are many fishhooks still imbedded in many Christians and that is what James 4:7-10 means about cleansing your hands and purifying your heart, and resisting the evil one. Deliverance was the next step in regards to some deep seated occultic or satanic demon. Many Christians have MPD and that can be hard to overcome and conquer through prayer and fasting. Sometimes deliverance removes the thorn that is stopping the person from reacting to the Spirit of God.

Anyway, I have no deep down word from our Yeshua telling me stop what I am doing, because HE is the reason why I am doing what I am doing, and you can only do what you believe is right.

Blessings.

Matjohluk,

I have been reading your past posts. How do you discern between sickness caused by demons or lack of certain minerals? How do you discern between alters and demons? How do you discern people are electronically attacked?

For the above questions, my answers will be God revealing the answers Himself. It can be Him giving words or knowledge, words of wisdom or discerning of spirits. God's answers are 100% accurate.

How do you discern? God tells you the all the answers? Or sometimes you discern with your experience?

Matjohluk said:

Well, if you feel that deliverance isn’t worth the trouble to discuss, then what in the world are you here for causing this unnecessary debate?

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What unnecessary debate?


I have no problems with Deliverance. Casting out demons is something Christians should be able to do. Spiritual warfare has it's place too, where we need to know how to reclaim ground taken over by the assignments of the enemy. I don't mind either if you want to mix some inner healing in with it too, and work on unraveling the damage done to a person by the enemy when they were helplessly locked under his authority.


What I protest, is some of the extra stuff we wrongfully associate with Deliverance. This is what I've addressed in this thread. Like studying the Occult just because we are curious. If anyone wants to study the Occult, then they should just call it that, instead of pretending it has anything to do with Deliverance! Demonology would be included in this, along with reading (and believing) the book of Enoch. I'm not saying it's the same as studying the Occult, but it also is not Deliverance because nobody ever needs to know the origins of demons before they can cast them out!

Lies of course are another issue. Many Christian books are full of lies. Perhaps that statement is a little bit judgmental. The books are full of mistakes none the less, and learning them/believing them is something that would be nice for us to avoid.

How is that being anti-Deliverance? Deliverance at it's core is the ability to cast out demons. And to do so, one must know Jesus. Fasting and prayer are recommended by the Bible to help the would be Deliverance minister. I don't see me protesting the study of demonology, while promoting a closer relationship with God, as signs of me being anti-Deliverance.

Willie T said:

Should you concentrate on trying to learn to know your enemy... or should you know your Commander-in-Chief, and his decrees, since he already knows all about the enemy?

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Hi Willie, I sent you my Commanders Operating Instructions via message.

Blessings.

Tobias said:

What unnecessary debate? ....me being anti-Deliverance.

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Sorry Tobias, I must have read it wrong, I only read this "No discussion about deliverance is worthwhile"---sorry.

Will comment later tomorrow. Off to bed 10:45PM.

Blessings.

soccercop said:

Matjohluk,

I have been reading your past posts. How do you discern between sickness caused by demons or lack of certain minerals? How do you discern between alters and demons? How do you discern people are electronically attacked?

For the above questions, my answers will be God revealing the answers Himself. It can be Him giving words or knowledge, words of wisdom or discerning of spirits. God's answers are 100% accurate.

How do you discern? God tells you the all the answers? Or sometimes you discern with your experience?

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Gee mate, these are tough questions. It all happens with counselling. We can say we are suffering and if we have PAIN and we THINK too much, then that will equal SUFFERING (PAIN + THINK = SUFFERING).

I normally ask the people about their diet, eating the right food, too much coca cola, too much fatty foods, too much of the wrong stuff. All of this will cause acidosis, and acidosis in the modern world will cause CFS, FMS and MS. I also ask if they have had a blood test. When I ask them the symptoms they are experiencing and I check them out with other illnesses, and possible deficiency and excess of minerals and amino acids.

When our Lord speaks I feel a warmth upon my heart.

Most of what I write, I talk from personal experience in my life of an old man.

I can remember one day in church, one of our lady elders was praying for a young women. And they were praying and praying and praying, and I could see the spirit of pride upon the person, but out of the blue I heard this voice say to me: "Tell them to cry with her!" I said to the elder what our Lord had said. They all began to cry, and next minute I heard a crack, and her back was put back into place. But, she still stayed there in a kneeling position, I walked up to her and said: "Gee you must feel great now that you are healed?" She said to me: "Why?" I said: "Well, why not thank our Lord for your healing!" And she said: "I know my Lord and I don't have to!" I said: "I believe to confirm your thanks, please thank him!" She got up and walked out of the church. I got a phone call next day from her mother accusing me of abusing her daughter. Anyway, I found out later that when she got home that night she lost her healing. And her mother was probably accusing me for her daughter losing her healing.

Now as for all of you questions, then send me a message with what you really want to know and we can talk.

Blessings.

Tobias said:

What unnecessary debate?


I have no problems with Deliverance. Casting out demons is something Christians should be able to do. Spiritual warfare has it's place too, where we need to know how to reclaim ground taken over by the assignments of the enemy. I don't mind either if you want to mix some inner healing in with it too, and work on unraveling the damage done to a person by the enemy when they were helplessly locked under his authority.


What I protest, is some of the extra stuff we wrongfully associate with Deliverance. This is what I've addressed in this thread. Like studying the Occult just because we are curious. If anyone wants to study the Occult, then they should just call it that, instead of pretending it has anything to do with Deliverance! Demonology would be included in this, along with reading (and believing) the book of Enoch. I'm not saying it's the same as studying the Occult, but it also is not Deliverance because nobody ever needs to know the origins of demons before they can cast them out!

Lies of course are another issue. Many Christian books are full of lies. Perhaps that statement is a little bit judgmental. The books are full of mistakes none the less, and learning them/believing them is something that would be nice for us to avoid.

How is that being anti-Deliverance? Deliverance at it's core is the ability to cast out demons. And to do so, one must know Jesus. Fasting and prayer are recommended by the Bible to help the would be Deliverance minister. I don't see me protesting the study of demonology, while promoting a closer relationship with God, as signs of me being anti-Deliverance.

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G’day Tobias,

I have no problems with Deliverance ministry either, but I would prefer it to be called healing ministry, because there are far too many Mickey Mouse points against these ministries because of much quackery.

Spiritual Warfare is very important to take back the land, because a lot of land has been lost over the past decade, particularly in the US.

Inner healing is always my priority, which can only come from one on one counselling, but sadly far too many pastors take to the psychotherapy, which does as much damage as bad deliverance ministries.

No Tobias that is a very wrong assessment about extra stuff and studying the occult, but I do agree with you in regards to those who are just curious. If I am a worker in a trade and there is an opposition to my trade, I would definitely like to know how they work to combat their principles of their trade. Do you get the drift mate?

Well this demonology stuff is also much to accept as a word, and as for the Book of Enoch, I suggest you read it before you start knocking it. You can’t knock anything or anyone if you haven’t tried it. I can speak out about certain false teachers because I’ve attended their seminars in our country, and that is how I know they false, I tried them. You go and read the Book of Enoch.

Yep, many Christian books are full of lies; after all they are the best money grabbing business that is funded by the devil himself. I know of one particular person who has made millions by ripping off Christians, and is being investigated, because they pay no tax, because it’s all legit under the church, and that church and person bleeding their people dry. The shareholders of one Christian bookstore are high degree masons, and very high.

I have been anti-deliverance for a long time, because like our Yeshua, HE focused on teaching and preaching, not deliverance, but, when the need arose; HE drove out demons the same as we do today. But, others have got onto the bandwagon like those in the Bible who said they did it in HIS Name, and HE told them that HE didn’t know them.

Far too many specialise in deliverance and all it is is a version of exorcism, which isn’t a speciality. If the pastors of churches would teach God’s Word, then they wouldn’t need to go to “sister deliverance” whenever someone needs to be set free from demons. Inner healing does that, and once you begin to confess, repent, forgive and love then there is no place for a demon to hide in their “house”.

As one anti-deliverance minister said that the specialists have a sign at their door: “Bring your paper sack with you and prepare to vomit your demons into it!” Yes, I’ve seen “the evil spirit shake the main violently and came out of him with a shriek” (Mark 1:26), as it has said “with shrieks evil spirits came out of many” (Acts 8:7).

Do you know that our big mouth is where the demons gain entrance? I can remember one day my next-door neighbour, across the road, would call over to help him cleanse his home. He had two young children (8 and 10). There were some mean demons in that house and they came into the house through the mouth of their father and possibly their daughter. His daughter was always sick, and I would pray over him and her and they would be set free. Then my neighbour became an elder in our church, now a wayside Christian as an elder. Anyway, we had a falling out because of his waysideness.

He didn’t call out for help anymore. His daughter was always sick, and this day I was working out in the front garden, and across come our elder, with his daughter. HE says to me: “I don’t know why I am here, so can you tell me?” I just looked at him aghast, and then at his daughter, I could see the demon cringing in her. All I did was wet my thumb with saliva, placed in on her forehead and made a across. She shuddered and vomited up this great large block of phlegm. Immediately her face changed, she was bright, and looked great. She was set free from the demon that her father had no authority over because it came there by his mouth. The other thing is that the next-door neighbour beside our home was a Satanist and he was throwing fiery darts in all directions. Our Lord soon set them running when the SPW got too hot for them.

Blessings.

Matjohluk said:

Yes Fig,

I say all below in love and honesty!

I am pleased that you are glad that you mostly agree with what I said. Did you agree with anything I added to what you had said?

We can do all what we say: “Put on the whole armour of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil” (Eph. 6:11).

But the word “wiles” covers many things such as deception through trickery, which would be to the deepest level, and wouldn’t be some schoolboy deception. The evil one, and his forces of “principalities and powers” are in “high places”, such as government departments where they are strongest, and they will use all their power and control through being cunning and skilled in stealing, destroying and killing that they would apply to no good purpose, but for evil reasons.

Our enemy is the master of wiles and lies.

He lies to us, wants to trap us, discourage us and snares us, and he does that through those people who are in power, those flesh and blood who don’t know they are being controlled by the “principalities, powers, rulers of darkness and spiritual hosts”, and I find such people in the Body of Christ.

He will use his forces to do anything that he can do with cunning satanic diversity to weaken us and destroy us. He goes to work daily to produce hindrances, uncertainties, lack of sympathy, loss of patience and self-control, and imbalance. He is our chief enemy, but deals in wiles and intense strategy through the flesh and blood who are in bondage, within and without.

Of course we have to stand in our Lord Jesus Christ, because if we didn’t we wouldn’t be able to do those things as HIS Disciples, as most are doing right now, on this forum. Yair righteousness and knowing the truth is only a few things, there are twenty other truths or more that you are not focusing on. Which part of the Gospel do you share---ALL or just parts thereof?

FIG, in the military many saw the balance of Christians, the balance you talk about as balanced Christians laid down their arms and held their hands up in surrender and were gunned down by the terrorists.

Please get off this bandwagon and stop accusing us of giving glory to Satan, we are talking about how to set people free from Satan and his forces, the very weapons that the enemy are holding many Christians to bondage to through religious spirits and the leviathan spirit that are many in the Body of Christ today.

And don’t accuse another believer that what we are sharing is SPIRITUAL RUBBISH, because I can assure you that I haven’t lost the simple truths, because your simple truths of REPENT and DRAW near to God, is only two of the twenty odd truths of the Gospel. Here are some of them, and if you can answer them, then we all might be on the right playing field.

When was the last time you confessed sin?
When was the last time you repented sin?
When was the last time you forgave another person?
When was the last time you asked another person for forgiveness?
When was the last time you submitted to our Messiah? (You did say draw, but no mention about submission!)
When was the last time you cleansed your hands through confession, repentance, and forgiveness?
When was the last time you purified your heart through confession, repentance and forgiveness?
When was the last time you said: I ADMIT, I MADE A MISTAKE?
When was the last time you said: YOU DID A GOOD JOB?
When was the last time you said: WHAT IS YOUR OPINION?
When was the last time you said: IF YOU PLEASE?
When was the last time you said: I NEED HELP?
When was the last time you said: I NEED ADVICE?
When was the last time you said: YOU ARE RIGHT?
When was the last time you said: I AM WRONG?
When was the last time you said: I AM SORRY?
When was the last time you said: I LOVE YOU?
When was the last time you said: THANK YOU?
When was the last time you said: WE?
When was the last time you said: I?
When was the last time you let the sun set on anger?
When was the last time you allowed the root of bitterness to swell up?
When was the last time you were not humble?

FIG, I not trying to offend you, but these are the simple home truths of our Yeshua HaMashiach Gospel of TRUTH that you are talking about, and if you can get a perfect score then you will speak Biblical truth!

And I agree wholeheartedly that REPENTANCE is one thing most of us shy away from, we don’t speak the word: “I tell you, nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:3)

Blessings.

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I answer only to God friend on all those questions you asked - as do you, and maybe you're being a bit sensitive perhaps. taking offense is also used by our enemy to divide. Gods been teaching me about that recently which has been very helpful.

Fact is sometimes there is a lot of silliness associated with the demonic and deliverance ministry, some do see demons everywhere when a lot of the time it is the flesh, or just life in this fallen world that's going on but in some circles they will try and cast out stuff that's not even there. The weird and wacky stuff that fascinates most likely could be perpetuated by demons probably to keep people distracted from thinking about Jesus - another tactic of the enemy.

There's nothing wrong with highlighting that kind of deception and tactic of the enemy for people, because some people will accept anything as truth without filtering it.

I haven't read many of your posts in their entirety I'm sorry simply because they are long and what I needed to know God mercifully showed me so I don't have any questions about it currently so when I've posted its not always addressing what you may think I am addressing its more what a post may have sparked in me that I respond to here in this thread. I guess I'm fortunate in that when God freed me it was simple, down to earth and done with deep compassion and there was something very final about it, in Jesus Name, so that is how I see deliverance, although I realize not all are as fortunate.

like God says in His Word 'when I act who can reverse it'.

however the topic of deliverance ministry does interest me because God did deliver me from darkness. To be honest though the stuff people seem to often think you need to know about the occult, or the nephilim, or even generational stuff etc etc that tends to be associated with deliverance ministry I think end up sometimes being bogging deliverance ministry down perhaps. With my experience of being dellivered it didn't even seem important or relevant at the time to know about that stuff in detail. I dont think I even talked about it. Maybe it was all there, but did it help knowing exact detail etc? When I was desperate at the feet of Jesus knowing only God Himself could help me I didn't care about all that. What was important was being able to get to God.
And so the stuff in the way was just stuff in the way. It didn't matter the details of the stuff all that mattered was that Jesus got rid of it.

so yeah sometimes to me it all does seem like spiritual rubbish when people are spending hours and hours of their life discussing all the ins and outs of it all because essentially its all just stuff that Jesus can and will take away.

Jesus just sorts it sometimes thankfully. When you seek God with all your heart He will be found.

And when you're ready God leads you to real down to earth people who walk in their God given Authority in Christ in their everyday life. Or sometimes God reaches into your life and delivers you just you and Him

so hopefully you have more of an idea of where I'm coming from, darkness to me is just not as interesting as Jesus is.
Jesus freed me so He's pretty cool in my eyes

it's only of course that demonic spirits would congregate at these type of services. just like dead religious spirits would flow to a more formal type of church, and false teachers would come to a church that prized its teaching.

you see what im getting at. whatever form of church it is or "specializes" in then that's what the counterfeit type stuff will try to infiltrate.

HI FIG,

I answer only to God friend on all those questions you asked - as do you, and maybe you're being a bit sensitive perhaps. taking offense is also used by our enemy to divide. Gods been teaching me about that recently which has been very helpful.

NO NOT SENSITIVE, BUT CONCERNED WHEN ANOTHER SEES THINGS THROUGH DIFFERENT GLASSES, AND SAYS THINGS THAT ARE ACCUSSING.

Fact is sometimes there is a lot of silliness associated with the demonic and deliverance ministry, some do see demons everywhere when a lot of the time it is the flesh, or just life in this fallen world that's going on but in some circles they will try and cast out stuff that's not even there. The weird and wacky stuff that fascinates most likely could be perpetuated by demons probably to keep people distracted from thinking about Jesus - another tactic of the enemy.

SORRY, THERE IS NO SILLINESS; IT’S THE ENEMY IN ACTION THROUGH PROUD WAYSIDE, STONY AND THORNY CHRISTIANS. WHEN THEY SEE DEMONS EVERYWHERE, THEN YOU KNOW BY THEIR FRUIT, AND THEY ARE DEMONISED.

There's nothing wrong with highlighting that kind of deception and tactic of the enemy for people, because some people will accept anything as truth without filtering it.

NOT TOO MANY CHRISTIANS FILTER VERY WELL, BECAUSE OF THEIR LEVEL OF HEART SOIL, FILTERING BEGINS AT THE 30-FOLD AND 60-FOLD.

I haven't read many of your posts in their entirety I'm sorry simply because they are long and what I needed to know God mercifully showed me so I don't have any questions about it currently so when I've posted its not always addressing what you may think I am addressing its more what a post may have sparked in me that I respond to here in this thread. I guess I'm fortunate in that when God freed me it was simple, down to earth and done with deep compassion and there was something very final about it, in Jesus Name, so that is how I see deliverance, although I realize not all are as fortunate.

THAT’S ALRIGHT, I DO GET LONG WINDED, BUT TO EXPLAIN MY BELIEFS AND THOUGHTS NEED TO BE EXPLAINED IN THIS MANNER, AND IN THE CASE, YOU HAVE POSSIBLY MISSED WHAT I AM SAYING IF YOU DIDN’T READ THE ENTIRE RANT. WHEN I GO TO THE TROUBLE TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING, I DO SPEAK IN SCRIPTURES, NOT LIKE SOME WHO MAKE SHORT AND SIMPLE CONDEMNING OR ACCUSING STATEMENTS WITHOUT ANY DEPTH.

like God says in His Word 'when I act who can reverse it'.

“I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior. Yes, and from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?” (Isaiah 43:11,13 NIV)

YES THE LORD IS ALWAYS AT WORK IN OUR LIVES, SAVING, PROTECTING, GUIDING AND DISCIPLINING HIS PEOPLE, AND WHEN HE DOES THAT WE CAN SAY “WHO CAN REVERSE IT”. WELL THE ENEMY CAN AND FALSE TEACHERS CAN!

however the topic of deliverance ministry does interest me because God did deliver me from darkness. To be honest though the stuff people seem to often think you need to know about the occult, or the nephilim, or even generational stuff etc etc that tends to be associated with deliverance ministry I think end up sometimes being bogging deliverance ministry down perhaps. With my experience of being dellivered it didn't even seem important or relevant at the time to know about that stuff in detail. I dont think I even talked about it. Maybe it was all there, but did it help knowing exact detail etc? When I was desperate at the feet of Jesus knowing only God Himself could help me I didn't care about all that. What was important was being able to get to God.
And so the stuff in the way was just stuff in the way. It didn't matter the details of the stuff all that mattered was that Jesus got rid of it.

I’VE SEEN A LOT IN MY LIFE, AND HIS WORD HAS ANSWERED MANY OF MY QUESTIONS, UNTIL A FALSE TEACHER COMES ALONG AND TRYS TO STEAL, DESTROY, AND KILL THAT KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING OF THE HEAVENLY AND EARTHLY THINGS THAT I KNOW FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AND OUR MESSIAH’S GUIDING AND LEADING.
MANY DABBLERS OF THE DELIVERANCE MINISTRY ARE PLAYING WITH FIRE, BECAUSE WE ARE IN THE LATTER DAYS, AND THEY NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT WHO THEY ARE DEALING WITH. THEY ALL GO OFF HALF-COCKED AND GET CAUGHT UP IN THEIR IMPORTANCE AND SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT THEY DON’T SEE THAT THE ENEMY IS USING THEM IN THEIR AGENDA.

I KNOW THE OCCULT, I KNOW WHO THE NEPHILIM ARE AND I KNOW THEY ARE REAL, AND ARE NOTHING LIKE WHAT MOST CHRISTIANS IMAGINE.

so yeah sometimes to me it all does seem like spiritual rubbish when people are spending hours and hours of their life discussing all the ins and outs of it all because essentially its all just stuff that Jesus can and will take away.

WELL I AM SPENDING HOURS ON JUST ONE SITE, AND I AM HERE TO PASS ON WHAT I CAN TO OTHERS, AND ALL I SEE ON THIS SITE ARE KNOCKERS AND HINDERANCES WHO GO OUT OF THERE WAY TO HINDER TO WORK OF OUR YESHUA.

THIS IS A RESPONSE I MADE TO ANOTHER PERSON WHO SEEM TO BE CRITICAL OF THINGS AND I BELIEVE I HAVE PUT CHRISTIANITY IN THE BOTTLE WITH THESE QUOTES:

The aim of Christian Science and Theology is not to open the door of endless wisdom, knowledge and understanding; but to put a limit on endless error of their greatest obstacle, which isn’t ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge.

It becomes dangerous to be right in matters where established men and women are wrong; because it is dangerous to be right when the church leaders are wrong. Therefore, we face many things that cannot be changed; but until we face those things, we will never know that they can be changed.

Sadly, a true slave is the man or woman who cannot speak their mind; and immortality will be given to those who unravel the ignorance of their version of the Good News.

The further the modern Christian society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

I BELIEVE THAT IS SO TRUE OF THE BODY OF CHRIST!
And when you're ready God leads you to real down to earth people who walk in their God given Authority in Christ in their everyday life. Or sometimes God reaches into your life and delivers you just you and Him

WELL I HAVE BEEN WAITING A LONG TIME TO FIND REAL DOWN TO EARTH PEOPLE, BECAUSE IF YOU SHARE THINGS WITH THEM OF YOUR LIFE THAT DOESN’T MARRY UP WITH THE WORLDLY SCIENCE AND MEDIA THEY LOOK AT YOU IF YOU SAID TO THEM “GET BEHIND ME SATAN”, BECAUSE THEY KNOW I AM THINKING IT. SO WHERE WOULD THAT THOUGHT COME FROM? NOT FROM SATAN!

so hopefully you have more of an idea of where I'm coming from, darkness to me is just not as interesting as Jesus is.
Jesus freed me so He's pretty cool in my eyes

YEP, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE IN OUR MESSIAH, AND I AGREE WITH MUCH THAT YOU SAY, BUT WHEN OUR LORD SAID TO ME THOSE MANY YEARS AGO: “EARTHLY AND HEAVENLY THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW!” AND WHEN HE GAVE ME MY SPIRITUAL EYES, ALL OF THOSE THINGS OF THE NATURAL AND SUPERNATURAL REALMS EXPLODED BEFORE MY EYES. IT WAS FRIGHTENING AT FIRST, EVEN FOR AN OLD SOLDIER LIKE ME, BUT AS HE SHOWED ME AND THINGS THAT I LEARNT FROM MAKING THE WRONG CHOICES AND DECISIONS I BEGAN TO THE SEE THE REAL TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH OF THE BOOK OF ENOCH.

THERE IS MUCH COMING AGAINST US IN 2014, AND WE ALL NEED TO BE PREPARED AND ON OUR GUARD. THE FALSE-CHRIST IS ALREADY BEGINNING TO RISE UP.

BLESSINGS.

HisSparkPlug said:

Just for the record, we are told in scripture that it will appear the saints are losing the battle as satan attacks in the days of darkness.. you're familiar with that scripture right?


I don't know what people you've met who are "in spiritual warfare" (we live it btw & SW is all around a believer 24/7 - you don't have to think about it all the time for it to be true).. but I don't know any one who fits this strange stereo-type you've given... Ok maybe I do know one or two now that I think of it, lol. But aside from those 2, your description is really off the wall for those who are called to deliverance.

I got a kick out of your illustration though, it was fun reading

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Satan and his forces have been doing it all subtly through our governments for years, and those people with rifles drawn and tazers in hand will knocking on the doors of many homes in America soon. Yes, we need to know the wiles of the enemy.