Deliverance Ministry

talitha said:

I actually went a few times to a Mormon church when I was in college. They joked about throwing me into the baptismal, but I never joined up - although I actually sang a special song in church with two Mormon friends - haha! I heard about some pretty odd beliefs!! and you're right, the services are not very exciting, and they don't talk about hearing from God, other than the impression you're supposed to feel from the Lord at the beginning that these things are true. If anyone really ever feels anything in their spirits, I shudder to think what they might be feeling.


Yep, and to this day, some of the nicest, most outwardly Christ-like people I know are Mormons. It can mess with a person's theology!


Yeah, which is why I lost interest. There were so many young singles in that group, and I always wondered what kept them there.

Click to expand...

I admire them, but never felt I fit in or measured up. Not the easiest church for a single person to be a part of if you don't find your soulmate there.

On another topic, I seriously wonder if anyone today --- preachers or lay persons --- actually hear from God. I think it's more like we repeat what we've been taught from various sources down through the generations. People who question things tend to be shunned.

Sadly they preach another Jesus and another gospel. You can the Youtube video "The Godmakers" and have your eyes opened.

I worked for someone and mentioned that you can become a god (in their beliefs) and he threatened to fire me for saying it (his friends were Mormon). He didn't believe me. It's still true.

My ex-girlfriend (wonderful girl) came from a polygamist family and even though they have tight knit families, they are messed up!

You can pick up some demonic spirits reading their books and if you go into one, it's a good idea to renounce it and bind up anything associated from it. It's got darkness in it from the root.

I have a soft heart for cultists. I have read considerably about Mormons and just knowing a few basic facts should dispel their claims, but blindness is not cured by just facts.

They believe a huge ancient culture existed in Central America where the Jews supposedly went. DNA testing show "NOBODY" has a Jewish background there. Also, one of the biggest battles in history was supposed to take place on this hill in New York (with materials that didn't exist at that time and foods that didn't grow there). There's not even ONE artifact on that hill from that battle.

Do you mean you read things in the Bible and hear what other people teach/preach? Or do you believe God speaks to you personally about anything specific?

The methods we use to hear God speak are a mix between our natural, human abilities, and our spiritual sensitivities. We believe our God is in control of the world around us, and so sometimes all we get is a situation where "coincidence" points us down a certain path, or He guides us through something we heard or a passage of scripture we've read.

The other part though is hearing the "still small voice" of God. Where somehow, deep inside of us we can simply "know" what God has to say. Usually we take this "voice" and compare it with other signs, to see if indeed it is really God. We compare any knowledge given with scripture, to make sure the spoken word isn't a direct contradiction to the written word. Or if it has to do with a personal task that we believe He is asking us to do, we look for "open doors" and other forms of verification that God is really sending us to do His bidding.

It's a learned art.

It's easy to confuse our own desires for something we think God is saying. Many people try to follow God for the first time when it comes to getting advice on who to marry, which IMO is definitely NOT the place to start!

But as Charismatic Christians we believe that prophets still exist. And a prophet is going to have to be able to hear from God accurately enough to speak a message on His behalf without making any mistakes. Once a prophetic word is spoken, dozens of Christians take it and double check it against their knowledge of the Bible and their discernment of the spirit behind it. So seriously, there is a real need for accuracy when hearing the voice of God, which in the case of prophecy is verifiable to many Christians who hear it. It's definitely not something that can be faked, or attributed to simple cold readings and such that people who doubt everything supernatural would like to assume.

talitha said:

God speaks to all of us - it's a question of being able to hear Him. We need to have the spiritual ear canal, so to speak, cleaned out, and we need to be close enough, and we need to be paying attention.....

Click to expand...

yes we do .
i ,"think" ,sometimes folks don't hear from the lord for the simple reason that he is still waiting for them to listen to the last thing he asked of them .

back to your discussion id like to raise this point that another has posted to you (in part)

by you :But sometimes demons need to be cast out.

By Other: then said that no deliverance ministry was involved in casting out of demons, because after confession, repentance and forgiveness those demons had no authority to remain in that person’s “house” (Read Luke 11:24-26 again!)
It seems that you are saying that Christians cannot be demonized. IF that were true, then Christians would never manifest demons or be influenced by them, and nothing would happen when demons are cast out of them - but actually all of those things happen in real life!

Click to expand...

this piece of that conversation jumped out of me because when i was younger i was taught a christian cannot have an evil spirit in them .funnily enough it was that thinking which culminated in my deliverance. as a teen having given my heart to the lord , having been reared in a sort of Pentecostal home i had a very uneducated debate with my girlfriend whose parents minstered in counselling people and sometimes prayed to cast out evil spirits - hence the debate . i wrote a long letter explaining why a christian could not have a demon ..
not long later i was invited to sit in with them and receive council. they chatted and prayed with me ,all very friendly and extremely normal ... ..ok short story>> ...
the couple prayed then the wife said mike why are you climbing the chair.. i looked confused ,looked down and i had literally climbed backwards up the chair trying to distance myself from these two haha. was very weird so i sat down on the chair again ... shortened story >>> the wife said" i see ,, she leaned forward said in the name of Jesus come out of him and touched my head ... the moment she did there was an immense blinding flash in my head ..so bright and my body flew upwards twisting round and this weird as grunting manlike voice cried out Nooooooo and then my body slumped into the chair limp .. and it was gone..

again i share this because all my theories were made ridiculous that day haha .. i simply testify to that which happened in my own life .

in hindsight i saw that all my arguments about a christian not having an evil spirit were inspired by same said evil spirit trying to reinforce unbelief and thus maintain its position in my life to aid in my destruction . but God had other plans now that i was HIS by the blood of Jesus

hope that wasn't too long .;-)

soccercop said:

Matjohluk,

What are your detailed views on multiple personality disorders? How would you know if there are demons involved or not? Also how are the people with MPD healed?

Click to expand...

What are your detailed views on multiple personality disorders? How would you know if there are demons involved or not? Also how are the people with MPD healed?

Hi Soccercop,

Well, I believe that many forms of mental illnesses can be caused by many things, such as:

(1) Traumatic experiences that may cause Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD);
(2) Continual persecution throughout a person’s life; rejection;
(3) Loneliness;
(4) Being alone;
(5) Satanic ritual abuse;
(6) Dabbling in the occult;
(7) Dabbling with a Ouija board; and
(8) Many other organic deficiencies in a person’s body.

Many Christians who suffer these illnesses may end up being consulted by a psychiatrist and are prescribed medication to suppress the symptoms, instead of finding out what has caused the symptoms, or they may have some form of psychotherapy that normally doesn’t bring the sufferer to the root of their problem either.

I believe that Christians who have been diagnosed with schizophrenia, MPD, and bipolar and have been set free from captivity, have faced their “strong man/men of their strongholds”, by reconciling their past abuse, hurts, and offences. I believe that when people suffer this way they have allowed the abuse, hurt and offence to settle deep down within their “soul” (their “house”) allowing the “strongman/men” to build a “stronghold” within, and it then becomes reinforced by continual demonic attacks by the “rulers of darkness and spiritual hosts” (Satan’s forces).

I believe that after first-class and sound Christian counselling (not deliverance), and they discover seeing who they in our Lord Jesus Christ they will begin to see “the truth that will set them free” and their broken-heart begins to be healed, and are set free from captivity.

I believe that any deficiency or an excess of any substance in a person’s body will also cause a breakdown of a person’s health. And have seen that many Christians suffer from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, and Fibromyalgia that some deliverance ministries believe to be demonic disease, when it’s an organic deficiency and excess of this and that. For an example, in research, I discovered the medical approach to such deficiencies and excesses and if we are:

(1) Deficient in ZINC, then we may have high CALCIUM, but the medical profession will supplement with high levels of ZINC to overcome the deficiency, where they should be getting a person to reduce their CALCIUM intake.

(2) Deficient in COPPER, then we may have high CADMIUM. We realise that COPPER is very dangerous and if we begin to increase our intake of COPPER, then high COPPER will affect our ZINC, PHOSPHORUS, and IRON.

(3) Deficient in COPPER and IRON, as these two work together to form haemoglobin, and if we are deficient in either one, we can become anaemic, either iron-deficiency anaemia or copper-deficiency anaemia. Many people have reported that when they have been found to be anaemic their doctors began large amounts of IRON intake to correct the problem. When the anaemia failed to improve, their doctor increased the dosage, which didn’t help, and the person became dangerously ill. When COPPER was suggested and began to take COPPER their anaemia improved. It was shown that taking the extra IRON without COPPER further depleted their COPPER and worsened their health.

And you are now wondering why have I gone to so much depth on this subject, because it’s much the same as the people who are suffering, as many deliverance ministries are either spiritually deficient or excess in their knowledge of healing, and casting out of demons are not the real answer for people suffering this illness, and there is no happy medium.

I don’t just look at the person and say they are demonised; I take ALL things into account the same as a doctor, because I believe that 80% of Christians are being put through the torment of deliverance for no other reason that lack of knowledge and understanding.

As in the case of mental disorder, and when the patient begins to take in an overload of such things to compensate a deficiency we can then cause may other health problems, as in the case of the medical field, a deficiency in LITHIUM. Lithium, sodium, and potassium are important components in the cellular pumps that transport minerals and amino acids across cell membranes.

A deficiency of LITHIUM may cause mineral and amino acid deficiencies and then the patient may suffer from hyperthyroidism. From the medical side of things, we can see that LITHIUM one of the base medications for MPD or Bipolar; and schizophrenia has a high CALCIUM, low IRON, and high COPPER.

Therefore, when a deliverance ministry is trying to cast out demons in anyone who suffers from a mental illness, and lack any medical knowhow, then a problem can eventuate. I know of a couple of incidents, and those churches have had to settle out of court, because of their foolhardy and cowboy ministry.

Sorry for side-tracking, now back the subject. I believe that the other causation factors of any form of illness, we can find the “principalities, powers, rulers of darkness and spiritual hosts” in the background (Satan and his forces) in the background throwing their weapons of GUILT and SELF-CONDEMNATION upon these people for some unknown or known sin, which may also cause them to sin further. It becomes a vicious circle, and once they get on the merry-go-round, casting out of demons isn’t going to help.

We find that when sin has been confessed and forgiven, there is no need for the sinner to remain guilty or condemned. Then if a person continues to feel this way about themselves after it has been rightfully dealt with, then it’s likely that they have been vulnerable to a spirit, which is suppressing and oppressing them and is holding them into feeling guilty and condemned. But, trying to separate the demonic counterfeit from real feelings isn’t easy.

I’ve also discovered that if a person refuses to forgive themselves for what they had done, then they will open a door to the demonic realm in such a way that almost endless feelings of guilt and self-condemnation are inevitable the consequences that then can lead to these mental disorders, through paranoia and delusion. I believe that schizophrenia is a form of “double-mindedness”, a split “soul”!

Hearing voices is very common, and because they are reluctant to own up to having these symptoms for fear of being labelled mentally ill, eventually builds up into a stronghold and those voices never seem to stop.

I’ve always believed that whenever these symptoms are prevalent there is a certain spiritual dimension to the condition, and even through medical treatment and Christian reconciliation counselling many have been set free and no longer take medication.

I have no medical background, but from my own personal experiences, and other people’s experiences, and experiences in the reconciliation counselling ministry of deliverance, setting people free from their bondage and strongholds, we have been able to establish the relations ship through the demonic realm with many who suffer from schizophrenia, and MPD. In fact many ministries have found that they are not dealing with a demon but they are dealing with a “personality” what they refer to as an “ALTER”, which isn’t an evil spirit.

As I have unbelieving friends who are suffering from MPD and Bipolar and I cry when I see what their problem is and I can’t help them, and they are drugged out of their mind. All of them are carrying so many hurts and offences from physical and emotional abuse. And of have also discovered that many Christians sufferers keep their illness quiet. I have heard a number of testimonies of MPD who have been set free after first-class and sound Christian counselling and each personality left as they worked through prayer of confession, repentance, and forgiveness, but in all cases it had taken a very long time to get those people to that position, and it didn’t come from casting out demons, but good reconciliation counselling.

Blessings.

Hockey_Fan said:

Do you mean you read things in the Bible and hear what other people teach/preach? Or do you believe God speaks to you personally about anything specific?

Click to expand...

…as a new Christian, with no background in scripture it was essential that I hear from God. There were no people around me to teach me and the mormons came to my door. If not for the Lord's voice ??
Many times I am grateful that I didn't have a church background bc I didn't know you weren't supposed to hear from God, speak in tongues, heal the sick and many of the other marvelous things the Lord has given us that many churches deny.

Hockey_Fan said:

I admire them, but never felt I fit in or measured up. Not the easiest church for a single person to be a part of if you don't find your soulmate there.

On another topic, I seriously wonder if anyone today --- preachers or lay persons --- actually hear from God. I think it's more like we repeat what we've been taught from various sources down through the generations. People who question things tend to be shunned.

Click to expand...

Mormons are like the masonic lodge or a community club, they have a great support system and they use the bible but they really don't believe it outside of the Book of Mormon. BoM is first, Bible, then Doctrine and Covenants…. I would not envy them, they have the highest suicide rate in the country. Due in part to trying to live up to an impossible human standard and much of what you see is just that… they are very consumed with what you see.
…although I have found the best way to witness to a mormon is to just talk about what you have in common and how it is not our denomination that saves us, our good works or our life style but the cross. When mormons are proven wrong in their beliefs about Jos.Smith they often become bitter angry atheists. They know they were duped and they see millions of others duped also and have a very difficult time reconciling any belief in God bc they think they were already there….

Matjohluk said:

Hi Talitha,

I am sorry to see that all of my long-winded responses were not seen as part of a discussion. I believed that I made comments hoping that we would discuss my comments. My last comment was once again a general comment on comments of the questions I asked you, but I was commenting generally on:

Q1: Why do most churches believe in promoting their church by producing a deliverance ministry, before training disciples?

And you said: “Most churches do not do that, as far as I know.”

I explained in my opening sentence that I was going to respond to your other answers, and I was implying that I was commenting on your “answer” to “Question 1”. And I then said again that I was trying to set a foundation, and I noticed that you didn’t comment on anything I had said in all of my previous comments. After all I did go to some effort in my response, quoting Scriptures, and explaining things, but you made no comment to any of my comments. You ignored them completely, or you agreed with everything I had said.

I had commented that the principles of the healing of the sick need to be seen from a different angle and frame of mind as per God’s Word and our Great Commission in a person’s healing, delivering them from evil and setting them free through the truth of God’s Word, and not by casting out of demons, which is the last resort, that is, exorcism.

Did you read all the other long-winded comments I made in regards to confession, repentance, and forgiveness, and that these actions by our Lord’s Disciples in bringing a person who is in need of healing to a full understanding of HIS Great Commission, which is confession, repentance and forgiveness. Healing has nothing to do with being taken into the bowels of a deliverance room for extreme length of time as some deliverance ministries do. Screaming at a demon doesn’t to heal a broken-heart, deliver them from evil, and to set them free. The truth of His Word does all of this, only if you abide by them. This is what I have been trying to explain to you and hoping that you would ask a question or repute what I said.

I see many churches advertising and publicising their ministry on Internet that their main ministry is “Deliverance”, and then some of them say in the next breath that they charge you for their service. Hey, “freely receive, freely give”.


I said to you that I believe that many ministries have the wrong perception and theory of casting out demons, because I’ve seen more damage done to people than good, and many people who had enough emotional and physical sufferering being spiritually abused and accused of having no faith. I then went on and said that I there were a number of incidents of a deliverance ministry trying to cast out demons from a person who was suffering from multiple personality disorders, and demons weren’t involved. Those people were destroyed by these ministries. You didn’t comment on my remarks, which was open to discussion, and you completely ignored that very important comment.


I then went on to say that I have always believed that discipleship is the primary role of churches in training His Sheep as His disciples, not forming a deliverance ministry. I’ve discovered over many years that most new believers after salvation still struggle with numerous altering habits and attitudes from their past life that produced their beliefs (strongholds) that caused their emotional and physical problems, and I went onto to say that these problems were not developed while under the influence of demons, as most deliverance ministry members believe. You didn’t remark on my comments either. Do you disagree or agree with my statements I have made so far? I am open to discussion on these very important points on healing.

I then went on to say that a good “Freedom in Christ” counsellor will produce the healing that a broken-hearted person needs, by leading them into prayer, and of course making them aware of the Great Commission of our Yeshua. I said that when we talk about their strongholds of hurt, offences, anger, bitterness and/or resentfulness these people can be set free; and we don’t need to be standing over them screaming and telling these demons to get out of their “house”.

These poor souls are hurting, and all the pain in their body is like fish-hooks embedded deep-down in their hearts, and they need understanding what they are going through, and casting out of demons isn’t going to heal their heart-felt wounds.

I then went onto say that simple counselling, talking one-on-one about their feelings and suffering at the time of their abuse, hurt and offence brings them to a better understanding of a believers life and being saved, and our Yeshua HaMashiach ministry through His disciples---US!

I then went onto quoting a number of Scriptures and I now see that these Scriptures may mean nothing to you, because you didn’t comment or agree with me that by bringing these hurting people, who you are trying to deliver by casting out of demons, when simple confession of sins, simple repentance, simple forgiveness of their unforgiveness for those people who abused, hurt or offended them.

You see Talitha, TRUTH is what sets a person FREE not casting out of demons, because if the “house is empty, swept, and put in order” then that person’s broken-heart will not be healed, the evil one will return and bring back more demons back into their “house” (soul) and rebuild their strongholds.

Casting out of demons, do not bring that person closer to our Lord, or make them submit to our Messiah, or resist Satan and his forces, or cleanse their hands, or purify their heart, or make them humble (see James 4).

“Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much” (James 5:16)

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9)

“Forgive us our sins, as we forgive sins of others” (Matt. 6:12)

“And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you” (Eph. 4:32)

“I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:5).

These simple verses above are the clutch pin to any Healing Ministry of our Freedom in Christ, not casting out of demons. Three simple commands by simple prayers of confession, repentance and forgiveness can tear the walls of any stronghold down.


He then goes onto say: “Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven” (James 5:14-15).

Again I explained that a simple procedure for healing, being delivered from evil, being set free from captivity; and has nothing to do with the deliverance ministry and the casting out of demons, which you didn’t comment on.

I then went on to say that people are set free by simple prayer and admission of their sins of anger, bitterness, and resentfulness toward another person; and then led in prayer of confession these sins, repenting for their feelings toward those other people and forgiving those people there was an immediate release as the shadow of their guilt and the power it had over them lifted off them that had held them in chains in their strongholds. I then said that no deliverance ministry was involved in casting out of demons, because after confession, repentance and forgiveness those demons had no authority to remain in that person’s “house” (Read Luke 11:24-26 again!)

So, please Talitha, go back and read all of my long-winded comments again, and you might learn something new about the real truth of setting a person free, as the ministry of His Disciples are not founded on casting out of demons, but it seems as though churches makes this a priority over HIS GREAT COMMISSION!
You then said to me: “Matjohluk, you asked questions, I responded to them, and you then have nothing to say about those questions in return. I don't understand that. I am at a loss as to how your posts are contributing to the discussion I opened. I'm trying really hard to engage with you here, but I feel you are not engaging with me in return!”

I responded to Question 1, and did you see what I was trying to explain to you was about the real healing of a person’s hurts and offences, was about confession, was about repentance, about was forgiveness. The sad state of affairs Talitha is that most churches don’t preach this Gospel. These are the Great Commission of His Disciples, not casting out of demons.

And you said: “Most churches don’t do this, as far as you know”, which is correct, because you don’t know and nor does all the other poor unfortunate congregators who frequent churches suffering because the basics of HIS Commission isn’t taught and those churches do not preach on confession, repentance, forgiveness and the most of all “love”!

Blessings

Click to expand...

as someone who has been through deliverance, 12 step programs and many years of counseling. I also have a BS in Psy… I appreciate your writings. There are some diseases of the mind that are physiological…. they start with a physical predisposition toward something like bi-polar disorder or schizophrenia and a trauma occurs. It is like a weakening in the immune system, then a demon that is lurking or that was invited through an occult practice, no matter how innocent that person may see it or even how young. We can cast out the demon but the damaged person is still there with a weak immune system, or the chemical imbalance that now needs meds, time, and often counseling to reconcile the 'damaged mind and heart'. Unforgiveness is a huge part of many diseases and it would be great if we could just say 'I forgive so and so' but I found with my parents I would forgive thousands and thousands of times, and I knew from the words and emotions or lack there of, that there was still a lingering anger and unforgiveness… the Lord showed me I had done all I could do I just needed to love the parts of them that I could. It was very healing to stop beating myself up for things that were so old and over. Its like pulling a weed and never getting the root, until your willing to go deep it is always there.
They say the Lord never gives us more then we can bear but we weren't meant to bear a lifetimes worth of pain in one day. If we 'keep short accounts daily' we can bear all but to get rid of 20 to 50 years of old hurt may take awhile and we need one another. That is why we are to confess our sins one to another… it is humbling and healing. It is often healing just to see the compassion in someone else's eyes for the trauma suffered. Someone who can counsel the Lord's path to healing, can be necessary for a person who is genuinely damaged as so many people are today.
As long as we hold on to anger and unforgiveness we give power to the enemy and the very person who has hurt us; we are now allowing them to continue, by forgiving them we set ourselves free. To walk in unforgiveness is to rebuke the message of Jesus and accept the demonic… it is absolutely necessary to forgive and how does a person who has had their loved one raped, murdered and taken from them forgive? Only with the Lord is it possible and only then can they be set free. So many people have suffered unbearable tragedies …. they are ripe for demons to oppress them. For Satan comes to devour those that are weak in the faith. To deny that there are demons just allows them to continue to torment people.
Good night and God bless, andrea

Well thank you Talitha,

Yes, we do then to get confused, when we are no seeing the point that another person is trying make.

The reason why I am saying it over and over again, because you are not confirming me with your knowledge and understanding of the real deliverance ministry, which I would prefer to refer to as healing ministry, because all the Scriptures that I had kept on repeating is the basis of healing, and not once did you confirm and agree with me this is so. All you can thing about is “casting out of demons” and to be in the deliverance ministry.

Do you counsel people and bring them to complete confession, and repentance, and forgiveness? If you do, then why would you want to cast out demons?

As I said I was only trying to lay a foundation down to find out exactly what you don’t know, and I now know that you are aware of these things.


Ah, now I am seeing the light, so you ignored me? And you believe that my knowledge I am trying to share with you, that is, my experience in the healing (deliverance) ministry, is unrelated to your mission and agenda on deliverance, unrelated to setting the captives free by Biblical method? Therefore, you see confession, repentance and forgiveness as unrelated to healing, delivering a person from evil, and setting the captives free as being unrelated to casting out of demons?


Therefore, you are very conversant in all of our Lord’s Great Commission and you use it every time before your last resource is brought into action, such as casting out of demons. Just for your information the cast out a demons from anyone, they first need to have their “house filled, cleansed, purified, and walking in obedience to God’s Word, because if their “house is empty, swept and put in order”, then it’s a waste of time to cast out demons. When a person cleanses their hands and purifies their heart, then there is no room for demons, so why is casting out demons so important. I can share many stories about setting a person free from demons, but I didn’t have to go about raving and ranting and screaming at them.


Sorry if I had missed that part about you not agreeing to taking people to a separate room, and I agree that the demon was trying to disrupt the service, and even if that was so, the spirit of fear of offending other people was obvious, and their fear action that they had taken had already destroy the authority of that church. You speak to a demon in authority and it would shut up immediately, therefore, it tells me that the church’s leaders were in doubt of their authority.

Any demon that manifests in front of me in any church, I can assure you I would take authority. I wouldn’t run off and get an “authority form” signed by the pastor to do that. I do agree about certain things in private, but not when a demon tries to destroy a meeting, because they know that the leaders of that church are weak.


Well fair enough, so do you understand that I am a serious believer, and all I needed from you was a confirmation that you agreed with what I said, and you didn’t

The truth of His Word does all of this, only if you abide by them. This is what I have been trying to explain to you and hoping that you would ask a question or repute what I said. Well to demon-proof ourselves we have to confess, repent, forgive, love, submit to our Lord, draw near to our Lord, cleanse our hands, purify our hearts, resist Satan and his forces, and be humble.

Also, I assume that you are aware that about 70-80% of churches are wayside, stony, and thorny Christians, and when I explained that you made no comment. Do you agree with my thoughts on that or do you believe that all members of a church are 100-fold?


Sorry for a rabbit trail, but I was trying to establish how much knowledge and understanding you do have. Because when I hear people wanting to be involved with a deliverance ministry, I like to know how informed they are with modern medical conditions and practices, and are not one of these slam-dunk-kiss-me-Sam ministers.


Oh, so you are not concerned about the damage some leaders or Christians do to other people through working in no authority, not knowing the real medical condition of a person, and the possible damage that can be done when trying to cast out demons. So you are aware of all of these medical conditions, and you approach with much caution before attempting to cast out demons. Demons are liars and always remember that.


Okay, now I am aware that you do know a little bit more, because as I was saying I was laying a base to find out how much you do know. So, I am ready to find out how much more you do know. And you can ask me questions to test me!


Well I am so please that you have confirmed to me that you agree that discipleship is the primary role of churches, and not slam-dunk-kiss-me-Sam ministry, and that “strongholds” are controlled by a “strongman”.


I still use the actual and true Macquarie Dictionary meaning of “stronghold” that has been deleted from the modern dictionary of today. All Christian-orientated words have been intentionally removed the dictionary. The meaning that we used in the Body of Christ was: “A stronghold is a place where anything, as an ideology, opinion, attitude, outlook, feelings, mindset, habit, etc., that is STRONG!”
One of the simplest “strongholds” that most Christians bind themselves up with is that they have to confess all their sins personally to everybody, who they have wronged. And because we don’t do it, or are unable to do it, we begin to berate and badger ourself and feel shame and guilt, particularly when a person has passed away or have been dead for some time; it makes it hard for them. And this is how a demon suppresses and oppresses a person, but not possession. The other “stronghold” is to allow spoken words, such as “You have no faith”, or “You are a sinner”, or “I am a sinner and God loves me” to rule their belief!

Also, “strongman” and “possession” has been deleted from the Macquarie Dictionary:
STRONGMAN: A powerful person/being in an organisation, state, or the like.
POSSESSION: Being in an organisation, or state that has control over oneself, one’s mind, one’s tongue, one’s heart, one’s attitude, one’s action, one’s feelings, one’s ideas, etc., that also holds or occupancy, either with or without rights of ownership.

Oh, come Talitha, I wasn’t being patronising, and yes I am a Charitable person.


Well, we can talk around a demon in a normal tone of voice, and if that demon is the reason why the person’s house isn’t filled, cleansed, purified, submitting to our Yeshua, then we have no choice, but we still need to know where they got the right to be there, and that can only be handled by confession, repentance, and forgiveness.

Therefore, if you counsel in this way, then when a person has been set free, what steps do you take to make sure they maintain that freedom?

Well Talitha, this is the point I am trying to make, because counselling and casting out of demons comes under one parcel, if you haven’t counselled the person, through prayer, anointing of oil, confession of sins, repentance, and forgiveness; then you shouldn’t be casting out demons.

The first thing I ask a person when they come up for prayer for healing, before I lay hands on them, I ask if have they any sin to confess, and have they any unforgiveness in their heart? Then I proceed with prayer, and if a demon manifests, I then call the rest of the team to lay hands on the person. And by the power of the Spirit of God the demon leaves.


Anyway, you have answered my questions and confirmed to me that you do have knowledge and understanding, and that is all I was trying to establish first, because I have seen far too many slam-dunkers who want to cast out demons, and are not Scripture orientated, and please understand that I wasn’t trying to belittle you and there was no need for your “WOW” comment.


There sure is the need for “after-care”. I would about 90% of so-called deliverance or healings of people, who get up and testify that is so, and in a few weeks they are back where they were, because of the lack of “after-care” and their “empty house” has a sign outside “VACANCY!”

I am slow pleased that I now finally know where you are coming from.

Christian can be demonised, such as wayside, stony and thorny Christians, but believers (30-fold, 60-fol, and 100-fold) can’t, but they can be suppressed and oppressed! This is another reason why I brought this up about the Parable of the Sower, because far too many are Christians and not believers of our Yeshua HaMashiach.

When I assumed that the posting was just about casting out of demons, I assumed that the line was that this is the only way to go. And I am pleased that I now know that isn’t so, and I will now dismount my hobby horse. I do resent your comment about having a narrow experience of churches, churches are churches, either owned by the pastor or our Lord Jesus Christ, but more so the pastor and I do assume that your churches are no different to Australian churches. Sunday goers in our country forget about our Messiah until next Sunday
Blessings

Matjohluk,

I still waiting for your views about multiple personality disorder. I aopreciate your views.
Thanks.

Hi Andrea,

I thank you so much for your comments, as I have suffered a debilitating disorder from my past life that was caused by working in high radio radiation area for prolonged and long-termed periods of time. This destroyed my bodily systems and I have become sensitive to most electrical and electronic equipment and appliances. My sensitivity is a reason why I discern supernatural things so easily. For many years I thought I was going mad, and I was beginning to think that I was demonised.

From much research I discovered that I was suffering from CFS, ME, MCS and FMS, and during my research into MPD and Bipolar I discovered that electro sensitivity was causing many problems with people and within the church. Many don’t realise that over the past 20 years wireless technology has crept into all corners of churches, and if a person is spirit sensitive, then they will also be electro sensitive. I also discovered this when they installed a mobile phone tower outside of our church, and our church replaced all cable communications and installed wireless sound system and computers. I always left our church worse for wear after being radiated throughout the service by the tower, sound system and computers, and the phones left turned ON by the congregation.

This is also when I became aware that many poor, unfortunate Christians who were suffering these debilitating disorders were being spiritually abused by deliverance ministry quacks and those poor people ran out of the Body of Christ in fear. They were accused of being “backsliders”. Nobody considered that they were suffering an immune disorder, a mineral deficiency or excess, metal toxicity, neuro-toxins, and allergies. Then along come these wandering minstrels, the slam-dunkers, the overrated deliverers, faith healers, or whatever you would like to call them, who reckon that anyone suffering these symptoms were demonised, lacked faith, and were being punished by our Lord.

I also discovered that many who suffer from schizophrenia had dabbled with the Ouija board.

Yes forgiveness is very hard, because I have forgiven all who have hurt me then something comes up that jogs the memory and you begin to feel the anger or resentfulness toward that person who originally caused that hurt. But, I just got back to Satan and tell him to get in Jesus’ Name as I have been forgiven. The enemy doesn’t stop coming at you through guilt and condemnation. But, speaking our forgiveness to those people dead or alive verbally to the airways in prayer causes the angels to sing.

Yes Andrea, when we stop beating ourselves up, the release eventually comes, it’s not easy to overcome and conquer the powers of darkness, particularly now in the 21st Century, as the enemy is striking at HIS Church from all directions, and no doubt he is getting concerned about some members. I dread this year as there is going to be much going on, and I do believe a false-Christ is being manifested by an agenda, I see much on the Internet, and particularly after the death of the Israel PM.

Well, it’s our faith that gives us the strength to bear our pain, just the same as Paul and his thorn.

Yes, that is why I have been led to the healing ministry, because of what I have gone through over the past sixty years. I have many a story to tell.

Yes, anger is the destroyer, and Satan and his forces are always there in the background working through other people to steal, destroy and kill any joy or peace that comes our way. I notice that when I am driving down the motorway, all these idiots come out on the road at the same time when I am driving. 

So true Andrea, how can anyone who has been sexually abused to forgive the person who had conducted the offence against their body. I’ve heard them say so many times: “How can I forgive them, you don’t know how much it hurt!” But, you eventually get through, and have some success. I served in the Army and I had an officer I served with in Vietnam, and I hated him. He died soon after arriving home a few months after I arrived home and we were back together again in the same unit. I hated him, and then this night he was killed in a car accident.
I went to his military funeral and danced over his grave. Then thirty years later to the day, I was driving into town, along a lonely country road, and I heard this faint voice: “Do you forgive him?” Straight away the officers’ name came to mind. And I said: “You got to be kidding!”

Four weeks later, I was driving into town again, and His voice said: “Do you forgive him?” And I said: “Yes Lord!” And HE said: “But do you love him?” Well, that floored me, and I broke down while I was driving. But, I couldn’t love him.

A week later again our Lord said: “Do you love him?” And finally I could say after thirty years: “Yes Lord, I love him!” And this great wall lifted off me immediately!

Andrea, I have had so many encounters with the power of darkness, and our Lord has save me a number of times from harm. I love Him, and will NEVER leave Him.

I try so hard to stop people from reading His Word literally, as the truth is there but it’s been hidden away under the veil of deletions, insertions, distortions, and watering down.

Good night Andrea and many blessings from our Lord Jesus Christ.

soccercop said:

Matjohluk,

I still waiting for your views about multiple personality disorder. I aopreciate your views.
Thanks.

Click to expand...

Sorry that you didn't look back far enough, so go back to Item 109, as my comments are there!

Hockey_Fan said:

I admire them, but never felt I fit in or measured up. Not the easiest church for a single person to be a part of if you don't find your soulmate there.

On another topic, I seriously wonder if anyone today --- preachers or lay persons --- actually hear from God. I think it's more like we repeat what we've been taught from various sources down through the generations. People who question things tend to be shunned.

Click to expand...

Hi Hockey Fan,

I've found that many churches in our country is much the same as a Mormon church, if you walk with our Lord, you stand out from the crowd and are shunned.

We hear so many people prophesying in old English, and as far as I am concerned our Lord knows our language, and we like to hear in our own accent. But, you hear the same old dribble all the time, and no real specifics.

As His Word says that you know them by their fruit!

Blessings.

Andrea411 said:

…as a new Christian, with no background in scripture it was essential that I hear from God. There were no people around me to teach me and the mormons came to my door. If not for the Lord's voice ??
Many times I am grateful that I didn't have a church background bc I didn't know you weren't supposed to hear from God, speak in tongues, heal the sick and many of the other marvelous things the Lord has given us that many churches deny.

Click to expand...

It's hard to know what to believe. I understand that different people have different points of reference and that's OK. I don't reject someone because their background or beliefs are different from mine, but I wonder if there is an objective reality.

Either demons or real or they are imagined. Just because I don't happen to be possessed by one doesn't mean someone else might not be. Ditto for healings, speaking in tongues and other things. All I have are my own experiences and the experiences of others whom I can trust.