If you want to go deeply into what happened in Rev. then -

vinsight4u said:

Hi ebedmelech,

So, do you think the holy being wrote Daniel 11?

Why is the holy being speaking at the beginning of it and for how many verses of Daniel 11?
Where is the holy being getting this prophecy message from?

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No I don't. Daniel is speaking there! He is the one who "arises to be an encouragement and protector to the king, he's advisor to him. That is not the angel speaking...and it's a whole different time frame.

Daniel 10 is in the 3rd year of Cyrus (as verse 1 says), so Daniel 11, which opens telling you it's the 1st year of Darius, isn't carry over from Daniel 10. Daniel 11 is given there because Daniel 10 ends up speaking of the rise of Greece to prominence. They were prophesied at different times though.

If anything you couple Daniel 9 (which is also the first year of Darius), with Daniel 11 because bot were given in the first year of Darius, They both tell you that in verse 1.

vinsight4u said:

Do you see where in Daniel 10 he first rejected speaking to any holy beings? Daniel needed one to strengthen him first?

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He had been fasting for three weeks...he says so in verses 2 and 3.

vinsight4u said:

So if the holy being for the first time - strengthened Daniel in the days of Cyrus, then how come the holy being also claimed to have done so in the days of Darius?

Daniel 11
Also I

/Doesn't this show part of this is missing?

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I don't think so. You first have to understand Daniel is speaking in Daniel 11. The angel never speaks with the king, only Daniel. This is likely information Daniel didn't give us in Daniel 9 which is also the first year of Darius.

I believe the reason Daniel 10 is in between them is because Daniel 10 ends bringing Greece to power.

Keep this passage in mind form Daniel 6:28:
28 So this Daniel enjoyed success in the reign of Darius and in the reign of Cyrus the Persian.

Cyrus comes after Darius and yet we have the 3rd year of Cyrus, which is Daniel 10 stuck in between Daniel 9 and 11 which are both in the first year of Darius. It makes sense because Greece comes to power at the end of Daniel 10...and Daniel discusses Greece coming to power at the beginning of Daniel 11.

This is curious stuff though. I'm going to look into it a bit.

vinsight4u said:

"Also I in the first year of Darius..."

"And now will I shew thee the truth..."
/Daniel 11:1-2

/The "I" is the same being for both verses.
The "I" cannot be Daniel.

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Since when did an angel arise to to be a comfort to the king?

Look at the last few verses of Daniel 10:18-21
18 Then this one with human appearance touched me again and strengthened me.
Daniel is weak from fasting so he is strengthened by the angel.

Next:

19 He said, “O man of high esteem, do not be afraid. Peace be with you; take courage and be courageous!” Now as soon as he spoke to me, I received strength and said, “May my lord speak, for you have strengthened me.”
Daniel is now strong from the touch of the angel, and he is ready to receive what the angel came to tell him.

Next

20 Then he said, “Do you understand why I came to you? But I shall now return to fight against the prince of Persia; so I am going forth, and behold, the prince of Greece is about to come.

The angel now explains to Daniel he has to leave and fight the prince of Persia but that also the prince of Greece is about to come.

Next (this is how we know it's not the angel speaking in chapter 11, but Daniel:
21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

Now...entire chapter was in the third year of Cyrus. Chapter 11 is another time entirely and we know this because Daniel tells us when it is in the first portion of 11:1:
“In the first year of Darius the Mede, I arose to be an encouragement and a protection for him.

Daniel is the "I" in this verse. He serves as second to the king. In verse 2 Daniel is still speaking:
2 And now I will tell you the truth. Behold, three more kings are going to arise in Persia. Then a fourth will gain far more riches than all of them; as soon as he becomes strong through his riches, he will arouse the whole empire against the realm of Greece.

Daniel is writing what he received AFTER THE FACT... and God's angels do not lie! So...why would an angel say "and now I will tell you the truth"? That ought to give you a hint right there that this is Daniel! Daniel is speaking..and we simply don't know when he received what he reveals.

Daniel is writing this and it is obvious that what he writes in chapter 11 was given him at a time that is not revealed.

vinsight4u said:

Daniel does not give strength to kings.
Holy beings give strength to Daniel.

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Really? Do yourself a favor and look up this word you use "strength"...it means encouragement. Daniel's ability to advise kings by his prophetic office is well known already as he has served kings Nebuchadnezzar, Belshazzar, and now Darius.

vinsight4u said:

Daniel wrote what was in the scripture of truth section that he was allowed to view.

The same I in 11:1 is the same I in 11:2.

now will I shew thee the truth

/This is what a holy being is going to do to Daniel.
The same holy being that had in the past days strengthened Daniel - during the past days of when Darius had been in power over Babylon.

The holy being had let Daniel know that he would do this - but then he'd be going away -to fight the prince of Persia. It seems that this battle would also lead to he will have to fight the prnce of Grecia.

Once the holy being is done showing the scripture of truth verses to Daniel, the holy being is off, and we find that Daniel soon refers to I Daniel looked.

12:3
"Then I Daniel looked..."

This all is showing that Daniel is the writer of the events to come, but he was not the one revealing them to him. Daniel is writing down what he learned from the scripture of truth writings. A holy being is letting him see verses - 11:1-12:2.
At 12:3 other holy beings show up.
The other holy being has left to go battle the prince of Persia.

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You can think what you want vinsight4u...but once again I'm going to try to point this out.

What Daniel is sharing here is revelation he had in the 1st year of Darius, and for some reason he didn't share it earlier...but he decides to share it here.

The information in Daniel 10 is during the 3rd year of Cyrus...it is not the same time of Daniel 11. Daniel is writing this in a way for us to receive it. What you're doing is trying to make it all fit together chronologically...and it doesn't. Daniel, inspired by the Holy Spirit to write, has done so, in a manner for us to understand. You do well to accept that.

Once again...Daniel is speaking in Daniel 11...think about that...he wrote it down...angels don't write prophecy, prophets do...and Daniel is the prophet. He is the "I" in Daniel 11:1, 2.

You have a strange way of approaching prophecy.

vinsight4u said:

Daniel saw other two - by the river.

This shows that Daniel was continuing a prior prophecy message - by was seeing more than these two by the river.

Daniel did not tell us what river, because he is continuing the same story from Daniel 10 where he mentioned that he was by the river /Tigris.

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Ok...so lets look at that:

Daniel tells us exactly when this was he says in Daniel 10:1:
In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a message was revealed to Daniel, who was named Belteshazzar; and the message was true and one of great conflict, but he understood the message and had an understanding of the vision.

Daniel receives a revelation of great conflict and it's clear he understands what he saw. Daniel nails it down to the month and the day in Daniel 10:4:
4 On the twenty-fourth day of the first month, while I was by the bank of the great river, that is, the Tigris,
Now we know the month and the day!

This CANNOT be the same time as Daniel 11, because Daniel tells us when Daniel 11 was given to him in Daniel 11:1:
“In the first year of Darius the Mede, I arose to be an encouragement and a protection for him.

Why are you constantly trying to make what is clearly two separate events, the same?

The only thing we can conclude, is Daniel has put them together for us which means Daniel finally has a complete understanding of these revelations and how they apply and is led by the Holy Spirit in HOW to record them.

That's all he does...Daniel records it in a way we can get the picture.

Daniel doesn't *always* understand everything he sees! Take Daniel 8:27:
27 Then I, Daniel, was exhausted and sick for days. Then I got up again and carried on the king’s business; but I was astounded at the vision, and there was none to explain it.
That vision, Daniel didn't understand! It was not explained to him until Gabriel visited him in Daniel 9, which was in the first year of Darius according to Daniel 9:1.

What we have in Daniel 11, is a revelation he had received, and he simply didn't decide to reveal it until that time, which was the 1st year of Darius.

You're making this harder than it needs to be.

vinsight4u said:

The holy being is referring to how he had come to strengthen Daniel in the days of Darius. Daniel doesn't strengthen anyone then. Daniel had been told by this holy being that he would show him what is written.
This is what Daniel is finding out. It was written how the holy being was to in the past days strengthen him, and now he was to show Daniel the truth. Daniel is not speaking until clear to chapter 12. The holy being had told Daniel that when - he would leave - not that he was leaving right then. He was letting Daniel know that first he would be shown what is in the scripture of truth, then - he would depart to go battle the prince of Persia. Look at chapter 12 - how after Daniel has to close the book (the scripture of truth) -then that holy being seems to disappear from the scene. Daniel then refers to himself and what he sees. Daniel is still by the same river from chapter 10, that is why he doesn't say what river it is.

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Absolutely not. Simply read it.

vinsight4u said:

Daniel is receiving prophecy by reading/seeing it being shown to him from
a book - the scripture of truth. This book has ancient history in it - that included the event of when the holy being had previously come to Daniel to strengthen him. The holy being told Daniel that he would shew him what is written - and does so in the entire chapter of 11.

This is why when this holy being disappears after he told Daniel to close the book - Daniel refers to how he sees other two by the river. Daniel is still by the same river scenes as in chapter 10. He has been finding out information about the visions he has seen in chapter 10, The first holy being came to tell him about the vision, but he didn't strengthen Daniel, so Daniel noted that to him - and either that one came again -or another one did. This time Daniel was strengthened and would be shown events written in the scripture of truth.

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Incredibly wrong. Daniel is a prophet revealing to you how he received the prophecy he wrote, which happens to be the book of Daniel.

So once again, if you don't hold context, you lose track of who is speaking.

In Daniel 11, Daniel is speaking, not an angel. Daniel 11:1:
“In the first year of Darius the Mede, I arose to be an encouragement and a protection for him.

The first thing you have to do is get your time frames right...and you're not. I've shown this to you starting at post 74.

Unless you stay within the time frames Daniel gives you, you will keep getting this wrong.

Once more:
Daniel 10:1
In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a message was revealed to Daniel, who was named Belteshazzar; and the message was true and one of great conflict, but he understood the message and had an understanding of the vision.

Daniel 11:1:
“In the first year of Darius the Mede, I arose to be an encouragement and a protection for him.
This is Daniel speaking, and Daniel who arose, not an angel. Daniel is the Kings advisor.

Whenever an angel speaks to Daniel they APPEAR...they don't ARISE. Daniel says he arose (stood up).

In Daniel 11:2 Daniel says:
2 And now I will tell you the truth. Behold, three more kings are going to arise in Persia. Then a fourth will gain far more riches than all of them; as soon as he becomes strong through his riches, he will arouse the whole empire against the realm of Greece.

What is he referring to? Daniel is telling you what he couldn't tell you in his vision of Daniel 8. He had see a vision he could not understand, so he says in Daniel 8:27:
27 Then I, Daniel, was exhausted and sick for days. Then I got up again and carried on the king’s business; but I was astounded at the vision, and there was none to explain it.

That's what Daniel is telling you about in Daniel 11.

vinsight4u said:

There are many timeframes in Daniel 12.

the man
the river


This shows that Daniel had already told us about these subjects.

Daniel is not speaking Daniel 11 - Daniel did not know the prophecy.
He has to have prophecies revealed to him in various ways.

Daniel is the thee.
Look back in Daniel 10- Daniel is referred to as - thee.

I will show thee
wherefore I come unto thee
I am come to make thee understand

Daniel 11:2
"And now will I shew thee..."

This is the holy being that strengthened Daniel back in the time of
chapter 10 talkng now. He is revealing prophecy to Daniel.

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Ok...well keep with what you think instead of reading what it says.