If you want to go deeply into what happened in Rev. then -

ebedmelech · Dec 27, 2013

vinsight4u said:
All of Daniel's prophecies are not sealed up. Daniel 10-12 was made into a separate section. This is when Daniel is being shown what is written in the scripture of truth.

That's why I specifically said Daniel 12. That portion Daniel was not given understanding of. He was told "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time."

vinsight4u said:
Daniel 7 - If you take it piece by piece, what do you find?

first - one vision time - brings seeing four great beasts

second - The first beast is seen for just how long during this first vision?

We know that the leopard came after seeing the bear. Daniel also has the first beast as lifted up from the earth. This is the only beast time where Daniel told us he beheld till. So, did other beasts get seen while the first beast was also seen?
Great beasts - bring successive kings.
The first great beast is made to stand as a man.
Is this because there will be no more successive kings of his land - after him?

The leopard beast was seen - with both one head and then again - having four heads.

beast - like a lion -beheld till - man
like a bear
after this
like a leopard
the beast - had also four heads

This is the four great beasts section. Daniel 7:7 begins to tell of the events of the second vision of that night. visions
Daniel starts out telling us about the fourth beast.
The other three beasts for this vision- had their dominion taken away.
Just like the great beasts of the first vision of this night - we learn that the fourth beast is diverse from the others.

vision
by night
saw
four great beasts
diverse from one another

visions
by night
saw
four smaller beasts
fourth diverse from the others that were before it

vision - great beasts /kings
visions - smaller beasts/kingdoms

How is any of this relevant since Daniel explains these beast in Daniel 7? As I indicated I referred to Daniel attempting to understand Daniel 12.

vinsight4u · Dec 27, 2013

vinsight4u · Dec 27, 2013

ebedmelech · Dec 27, 2013

vinsight4u said:
We were talking about how Daniel 7 and Rev. 13 blend together, and then in your post you said - something as - all of this. We were not just talking about Daniel 12, is how it seemed to me. Sorry.

I didn't explain myself completely. Sorry.

Daniel pretty much provides us with the explanations of all of his visions except his last one in chapter 12. When he sought understanding of that one he was told to "go his way" and that portion was sealed up.

vinsight4u · Dec 27, 2013

ebedmelech · Dec 27, 2013

vinsight4u said:
No problem, Do you see that the chapter 12 vision began in chapter 10?
Daniel saw visions during chapter 10, then we get the details from chapter 11-12.

Well actually no. Chapter 10 tells you when it is... Daniel says it's the 3rd year of Cyrus. Daniel gets a glimpse of Jesus and it scares him. It ends with Greece about to be removed as an empire.

Chapter 11 is what goes with chapter 10! It is in the 1st year of Darius, and divides the kingdom of Alexander the Great among 4 kings...which is what Daniel 10 is getting to.

Chapter 12:1 changes the focus entirely...it looks to the end.

vinsight4u · Dec 29, 2013

ebedmelech · Dec 29, 2013

vinsight4u said:
Daniel 10 contains a thing - a vision. Daniel understood the thing - vision.

Okay, now what did Daniel understand that he saw?
We don't know. Daniel saw stuff, but he didn't tell us the details.

A few days later, Daniel saw another vision.
This one was of a certain man.

Daniel 12 does not start a new vision or a new story.
The chapter begins with "And".

12:1 is just continuing the message that was still going at the time of the end of chapter 11.

Go back and read what I said. I said Daniel 12 "changes the focus". Watch the flow:
Daniel 10:20, 21 end with Greece about to come to power, but the angel also tells Daniel that Michael will stand with him:
20 Then he said, Do you understand why I came to you? But I shall now return to fight against the prince of Persia; so I am going forth, and behold, the prince of Greece is about to come.
21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

Daniel 11 is Greece coming to power, being divided, and the rise and fall of Antiochus Epiphanes, who commits the "abomination of desolation". Daniel 11:45 closes it out:
45 He will pitch the tents of his royal pavilion between the seas and the beautiful Holy Mountain; yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.

Now notice how the focus changer to Israel...Daniel 12:1:
Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.

The focus has changed Israel! Michael is the prince of Daniel's people who are Israel. Daniel then receives another vision at 12:5.

vinsight4u · Dec 30, 2013

vinsight4u · Dec 30, 2013

vinsight4u · Dec 30, 2013

vinsight4u · Dec 30, 2013

vinsight4u · Dec 30, 2013

ebedmelech · Dec 30, 2013

vinsight4u said:
The focus changed to Israel back in Daniel 11:14.

the robbers of thy people

Daniel 10:14

what shall befall thy people
in the latter days

/The holy being starts that message in 11:14.

No. You must consider Daniel 10 is given in the "third year of Cyrus" (10:1)...Daniel 10:14 is a statement of the angel of what he came to do. However, he doesn't do it because he has to go deal with "the prince of Persia" at 10:20.

Daniel tells us when Daniel 11 is given...it's the 3rd year of Darius vinsight4u, (Daniel 11:1), you cannot just jump around as you do without asking who, what, when, where, and why...because it will make you miss things! Daniel 11 is a revelation of the fall of Greece and the division of Greece into 4. It culminates with the rise and fall of Antiochus Epiphanes.

It is Daniel 12 where the angel changes the focus to Israel.

vinsight4u · Dec 31, 2013

vinsight4u · Dec 31, 2013

ebedmelech · Dec 31, 2013

vinsight4u said:
The holy being does not leave right then in Daniel 10. This holy being will first begin to show thing to Daniel that are written in the scripture of truth.

What is written in it?
Lots of things -events are written down.
Daniel will get to see this.

The holy being seems to begin with the point of how he was to come to Darius - and strengthen him or Daniel.

Next, we find the holy being still reading about himself.

I
I
So off Daniel 11 goes revealing the events in the scripture of truth.
Verse after verse, but there is a point where the holy being must return to fight with the prince of Persia.

Where do you get that from? Daniel 10:20:
20 Then he said, “Do you understand why I came to you? But I shall now return to fight against the prince of Persia; so I am going forth, and behold, the prince of Greece is about to come.
It's very clear...he came and left, it's right there! However, he informed Daniel that he would tell him but he and Michael had to go against the forces of Persia. It's crystal clear.

vinsight4u said:
Look in Daniel 12 as to how Daniel switches to him as being - the I.
I Daniel lifted up mine eyes - and at this point he sees two others.

Not before before he prophesies the coming of Michael.

vinsight4u said:
The holy being had only stated that he would show him what was in the scripture of truth. After Daniel closes that book, did the being leave to go battle the prince of Persia?

Indeed he did! Why do you think he said "But NOW I shall return to fight the prince of Persia"? He had to go. When he told Daniel anything is not given and Daniel 11:1 tells you this was a few years earlier.

vinsight4u said:
The holy being wanted Daniel to know why he came.
He came to show what would befall thy people in the latter days.
This is a vision that links back to the certain man girded with the fine gold of Uphaz.

Which he doesn't tell him at that time. You can't make things up vinsight4u. He told Daniel he would leave and he left. After that there's nothing the scene totally shifts to Daniel 11 which is the "first year of Darius". You have to flow with what the text provides.

vinsight4u said:
Daniel 10 reveals two visions to Daniel.
one - ends and then Daniel mourns for three full weeks

the second begins at the 24th day
Daniel sees a certain man.
Daniel returns to being sad.
By the vision my sorrows are turned upon me.

Yes. Daniel gets a vision of Jesus, the same description of Revelation 1:13-16

vinsight4u said:
Daniel 11:14
"...to establish the vision..."
This is going to tell us what Daniel saw in that first vision of chapter 10.
This is what will befall thy people in the latter days.

No. Once again Daniel 10 and 11 have "time stamps" in the first verse of each chapter telling you when the visions occurred.

*Daniel 10 is in the 3rd year of Cyrus.

*Daniel 11 is in the 1st year of Darius.

You can't just overlook such things.

vinsight4u · Jan 1, 2014

ebedmelech · Jan 1, 2014

vinsight4u said:
Daniel 10:21
"But I will shew thee the truth..." /3rd year of Cyrus

11:2
"And now will I shew thee the truth..." still the 3rd year of Cyrus

No. Daniel 11:1 Daniel tells when this is:
“In the first year of Darius the Mede, I arose to be an encouragement and a protection for him.

That's your time stamp. Daniel is being an encouragement to TO DARIUS...not Cyrus.

vinsight4u said:
What is this truth?
It is the revealing of what is in the scripture of truth.

No. You have to realize what he's speaking to in Daniel 11! Think about the time stamp.

*Darius reigned before Cyrus.

*Cyrus reigned after Darius

So you have a problem...you're approaching this as if it's chronological...it's not!

Daniel 10 is really speaking of a time after Daniel 11

vinsight4u said:
Lots of events long past are written in it and way into the future.

So where does Daniel get to start learning from it?
At the beginning?
Back as far as the days of Moses?
Back as far as the days of David, maybe?

no- The words are opened to him at the point in history of when Darius ruled in the past - and the holy being came back in those days.
But it is then the actual timepoint in Daniel's life as to he is in the third year of Cyrus. There would be four more kings in Persia.
(not including Cyrus).

Look at Daniel 11 as totally being a time of showing Daniel what is written in the scripture of truth.

That would be total error! Daniel is writing scripture here! Daniel tells you clear as day there would be "3 more kings" and Persia will fall.

vinsight4u said:
The book section where Daniel gets revealed to him opens at the time of the holy being and Darius.
Next, was foretold how this holy being (I) was to come to Daniel and show him the truth. When the revealing of these writings ends - the holy being will leave and first Daniel was told to shut the book. The book has more information in it - but Daniel had to close it. Daniel would not get to read or be told any further what is written in it.

When you get to Daniel 12:4, that holy being seems to leave.
Daniel begins to write now as to I - being him.

Daniel 12:5
"Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two..."

/It seems like now is when the other holy being has done his job of revealing the events as to what is written in the scripture of truth - and has left to go battle the prince of Persia. I do not know if he told Daniel about the prince of Grecia coming as to where that prince would come.
I have thought that maybe it meant the holy being would now have to fight not just the prince of Persia but also the prince of Grecia -so don't expect any more messages from him.

-----
Daniel 10:16
"...one like the similitude of man..."

10:18
"Then came again...one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me..."

Daniel 11:1
"Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I stood to strengthen him..."

/The time is being read from the scripture of truth.
The holy being is reading about his own acts in the scripture of truth.

11:2
"And now will I shew thee the truth...yet three kings in Persia..."
/not Cyrus - Cyrus already stood up in Persia

11:3
"...and the fourth shall be far richer than they all..." Xerses

The future is still being read from the scripture of truth and on and on -all the way into chapter 12 -when Daniel must close the book.
Now, the holy being can leave, and seems to.
Off he goes to battle the prince of Persia and - maybe too the prince of Grecia.
--------

So how many holy beings that came to Daniel had been battling the prince of Persia first?

Daniel 10:13
"...but the prince of Persia withstood me..." /doesn't strengthen Daniel?

10:18
"Then came again...like the appearance of a man...." /strengthens Daniel
10:20
"...I will return to fight with the prince of Persia..."

So, does the same holy being come twice, or is there more than one holy being that comes from the battle of fighting the prince of Persia?

At Daniel 12:5, Daniel will tell of two other holy beings.
Daniel is still by the same river as in chapter 10.
Chapters 10-12 all link together.

It is as if Daniel rejects learning about the latter days from the first being that came, because that being did not strengthen him.

Daniel 10:17
"For how can the servant...talk with me...no strength..."

To all that I say...

This is what I know:

*Daniel 10 prophecy is the 3rd year of Cyrus who reigned AFTER Darius. Daniel 11 prophecy is is the 1st year of Darius...so think about that.

*Daniel 11:1, 2 says there will be 3 more Persian kings after Darius (who is the king as Daniel speaks)...they were Cyrus, Artaxerses, and Ahasuerus.

*Daniel 11:3,4 tells you Greece takes the empire from Persia but that shortly after that the Empire of Greece (Alexander the Great), is broken up into four parts.

You're getting caught up in "holy beings" who are helping Daniel understand what he's being told...how many it is doesn't really matter so much "WHAT THEY SAID to Daniel is what matters.

vinsight4u · Jan 2, 2014

If you want to go deeply into what happened in Rev. then -

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