Was the Historical Jesus White?

Luther073082 · Dec 18, 2013

Rhamiel said:
race is a socially constructed thing

so if you count ancient Mediterranean Hebrews as "white" then yeah, they are white
race is such a made up thing...

I would agree with you for the most part that it's socially constructed.

However under our current social construction of race they would not be considered to be white as our current social construction of race indicates white as being someone who's ancestry is almost entirely European in nature.

Once you introduce an ancestry within the last 2 or 3 generations that is east of Greece, South of Sicily or West of Portugal, you are not considered under our current social construct to be white.

Or the current social construct could be more or less based on how pale your skin is. Either way Jesus would not have fit as white under our current social construct. If Jesus was in front of most people today, they would not consider him to be white assuming his identity remained a secret.

Of course I think many would try to find a way to make Jesus into their own race.

gurneyhalleck1 · Dec 18, 2013

Not so fast! I grew up with Powell also. "Jesus of Nazareth" came out when I was a little kid in the 70's. I LOVED IT! I still watch the dvd's with my kids. Good stuff. I constantly see him as Jesus, too. It's just lately we've seen the Passion a lot, so yeah, I tend to picture him a bit more.

In reality He probably resembles neither! ^_^

I'm a big fan of that show "Person of Interest." Jim C. plays Reese on there, a tough guy former Black Ops CIA type guy. Now when I go back to watch the Passion, it's going to be weird to see him play Jesus! ^_^

Hetta said:
Because I am older than you, I see Robert Powell ("Jesus of Nazareth").

Erth · Dec 18, 2013

ebia said:
True

But that only makes it worse to say "Jesus was white".

Oh come on.

Erth · Dec 18, 2013

Luther073082 said:
The people who lived where Jesus lived at his time where not white. There is no reason from either scripture or church tradition or history to believe that Jesus was a different race from these people.

Therefore it is factually incorrect to assert that Jesus was white.

There are innumerable sources of fault in those extrapolations.

gurneyhalleck1 · Dec 18, 2013

Two fifty-dollar words in one sentence! Nicely-done!

Erth said:
There are innumerable sources of fault in those extrapolations.

Rhamiel · Dec 18, 2013

ebia said:
True

But that only makes it worse to say "Jesus was white".

no, it does not make it worse

in her view of race, Jesus was white

she is entitled to that view

others can say Jesus was a Mediterranean Jew
that is more precise, but it is not more "true" then anything else

what about the article
Santa Claus an old white man? Not anymore. Meet Santa the Penguin, a new Christmas symbol.

this is ridicules

For one thing, making Santa Claus an animal rather than an old white male could spare millions of nonwhite kids the insecurity and shame that I remember from childhood.

she felt shame because Santa was white?
this is the ravings of an emotionally deranged person, she should not be given a second thought
I am not upset at what Kelly said
I am upset that she even wasted the time to respond to this article
might as well argue with the crazy guy who thinks he is the King of Mars
what a sense of entitlement "I had bad feelings as a kid, so I think the US culture has to destroy one of its most beloved icons and replace it with something dumb"

ebia · Dec 18, 2013

Rhamiel said:
no, it does not make it worse in her view of race, Jesus was white she is entitled to that view others can say Jesus was a Mediterranean Jew that is more precise, but it is not more "true" then anything else what about the article Santa Claus an old white man? Not anymore. Meet Santa the Penguin, a new Christmas symbol. this is ridicules she felt shame because Santa was white? this is the ravings of an emotionally deranged person, she should not be given a second thought I am not upset at what Kelly said I am upset that she even wasted the time to respond to this article might as well argue with the crazy guy who thinks he is the King of Mars what a sense of entitlement "I had bad feelings as a kid, so I think the US culture has to destroy one of its most beloved icons and replace it with something dumb"

last time I looked Santa wasn't real - he can be portrayed as black, penguins, whatever,... A quick skim of the article and it seems deliberately provocative in an attempt to get people to think about American icons work in a multi-ethnic society. Not especially well done, but well enough to provoke a revealing response it seems.

Rhamiel · Dec 18, 2013

ebia said:
last time I looked Santa wasn't real - he can be portrayed as black, penguins, whatever,...

well Santa is loosely based off of St. Nicholas or Myra
who was "of European decent"

since Santa is the HIGHLY fictionalized descendant of St.Nick, I have no problem with black Santa or Mexican Santa or any other race of Santa
we have seen that in every culture, people make Santa look like them

but to get rid of St.Nick all together and replace him with a bird?!?!?!?!
how unchristian

Rhamiel · Dec 18, 2013

ebia said:
last time I looked Santa wasn't real - he can be portrayed as black, penguins, whatever,... A quick skim of the article and it seems deliberately provocative in an attempt to get people to think about American icons work in a multi-ethnic society. Not especially well done, but well enough to provoke a revealing response it seems.

I think that the person who wrote the article just has a blind hatred of older white men
I do not like debating the merits of racists

gurneyhalleck1 · Dec 18, 2013

Actually everytime I go to the Philippines, I see Santa images everywhere I turn and they are all WHITE and look like the ones we have here in the states!

I wonder what's next? Perhaps leprechauns during St. Patrick's Day will be Korean or black? LOL!

Rhamiel said:
well Santa is loosely based off of St. Nicholas or Myra
who was "of European decent"

since Santa is the HIGHLY fictionalized descendant of St.Nick, I have no problem with black Santa or Mexican Santa or any other race of Santa
we have seen that in every culture, people make Santa look like them

but to get rid of St.Nick all together and replace him with a bird?!?!?!?!
how unchristian

Root of Jesse · Dec 18, 2013

gurneyhalleck1 said:
Actually everytime I go to the Philippines, I see Santa images everywhere I turn and they are all WHITE and look like the ones we have here in the states!

That's cuz Philippinos get their relatives in California to go to Costco and buy them...

I wonder what's next? Perhaps leprechauns during St. Patrick's Day will be Korean or black? LOL!

Here's the way I see it. The person of Santa, St. Nicholas, was Caucasian. Possbily Middle Eastern (he was bishop of Myra, in Mediterranean Turkey) so maybe darker. But I know native Iranians who are pale and look Causcasian. So there's the person.

But when you talk of the spirit of St. Nicholas, the spirit of giving to those in need...is there a color to that?

Bottom line...if black parents teach their children that white people are oppressive and mean, then white Santas will bee seen as oppressive and mean.

Regarding Jesus, I think he was dark complexioned, at least like Middle Easterners. But does it really matter?

ebia · Dec 18, 2013

Rhamiel said:
well Santa is loosely based off of St. Nicholas or Myra who was "of European decent"

Myra is in Asia, not Europe, though I'm not sure what its ethnic make up,would have been in the 3rd century. I doubt he looked like a grossly obese Scandinavian. But he certainly didn't have reindeer and wear woolly red clothes.

Root of Jesse · Dec 18, 2013

ebia said:
NM

Michie · Dec 18, 2013

Root of Jesse said:
ebia said:

NM

Click to expand...

I have often thought the apparitions of Jesus & Mary appearing to people in ways they can understand & relate to says regardless of the bodies they had on earth they are beyond race & nationality.

mark46 · Dec 18, 2013

When someone in the US says that Jesus is "white", that person usually has a view of someone with light brown hair and blue eyes. This goes along with a red-faced Santa from the far North.

A Semite who spends most of the year out in the sun is not what they have in mind. As we know, such a person is Caucasian, but not most person's idea of "white". Similarly, natives of India are Caucasian, but white Southerners and many Europeans would not call them "white".

I find it interesting that the Middle East has moved to Europe.

Most Turks that I have met have appeared similar to others in the regions, darkly complected, but not black (or white).

So for me, Jesus and Saint Nicholas were Middle Eastern with dark skin and brown eyes. Obviously, Father Christmas and Santa Claus can be whatever race anyone wishes, as befits a mythical character.

mark46 · Dec 18, 2013

It matters when so many find it offensive that Jesus didn't have blond hair and blue eyes.

Accepting those with dark skin as equals and as God's children is difficult for many. To accept that Jesus did not look like they do is a bit harder.

Root of Jesse said:
Regarding Jesus, I think he was dark complexioned, at least like Middle Easterners. But does it really matter?

football5680 · Dec 18, 2013

Luther073082 said:
The people who lived where Jesus lived at his time where not white. There is no reason from either scripture or church tradition or history to believe that Jesus was a different race from these people.

Therefore it is factually incorrect to assert that Jesus was white. Just as it was factually incorrect to assert that he was black (African).

I would go with middle eastern Hebrew as the best description.

White is a color, nobody is saying he is European. Saint Augustine was white but he was also an African.

Rhamiel · Dec 18, 2013

she wants to replace Santa Clause with a penguin...
how come that is not the controversial statement?

ebia · Dec 18, 2013

football5680 said:
White is a color, nobody is saying he is European. Saint Augustine was white but he was also an African.

Nobody is actually the colour white; in this context it's a racial identifier.

ebia · Dec 18, 2013

Rhamiel said:
she wants to replace Santa Clause with a penguin...

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "... to turn Santa Claus into a penguin"?

how come that is not the controversial statement?

Because a game can be made into whatever people want it to be.

Whereas "Jesus was white" is a claim about an historical fact.

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