The Wrap on Reverened Polar Bear

I'm looking at changing churches now. The Church that I attend now is just so dry and it leaves me feeling kinda unsatisfied. I see other churches nearby and I'm thinking about taking a look inside. I just don't like being a new face and I don't like the feeling of giving up on the church I'm at now.

A church faithfully preaching the Gospel and faithfully administering the Sacraments is the definition of a living, active, Spirit-filled Church.

Everything else is cheap imitation.

Spirituality can't be found in cheap, subjective feelings. Why?

"The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately sick;
who can understand it?" - Jeremiah 17:9


Why trust in men rather than the Word of God that is spoken to you, saying, "You are forgiven."?

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

A church faithfully preaching the Gospel and faithfully administering the Sacraments is the definition of a living, active, Spirit-filled Church.

Everything else is cheap imitation.

Spirituality can't be found in cheap, subjective feelings. Why?

"The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately sick;
who can understand it?" - Jeremiah 17:9


Why trust in men rather than the Word of God that is spoken to you, saying, "You are forgiven."?

-CryptoLutheran

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Amen

rockytopva said:

There is nothing like justifying the spiritual cold...

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What you call "spiritually cold" is what Christians, for two thousand years, have called having church. Every minute facet of the traditional Christian service is designed to point you and me back to Jesus Christ, and it does this principally by being so utterly and completely saturated with Scripture that you can't avoid it. The entire service is a flood of Scripture, all directing the entire focus back to Christ, and what He has done for us.

That is where the Holy Spirit is present.

"Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, 'Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?' Jesus answered him, 'If anyone loves Me, He will guard My word, and My Father will love Him, and we will come to Him and make our home with him. ... These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to remembrance all that I have said to you." John 14:22-26

The Spirit, sent by the Father, in the name of the Son, will teach and bring to remembrance all that the Lord said to His apostles; and thus this was true and the apostles indeed remember and were taught the things of Christ. The Spirit will teach me, personally, everything the Lord said to me, personally? No, the Spirit will teach the apostles and bring remembrance to them of all that our Lord said.

And what did they do? They taught it, remember the Great Commission? "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them all that I have said to you." They did this, the Spirit poured out, quickening them to the task to go forth and be His witnesses starting in Jerusalem, then in Judea and Samaria, and finally to the ends of the earth.

The Word the Apostles preached, the same Word that is written down for us, as the New Testament, that Word went forth doing what Christ said it would do, for the forgiveness of sins.

And so when that same Word is preached in the proclamation of this same Word: in our confession of our sins and this Word proclaimed to us, "Your sins are forgiven" because our Lord gave His apostles and the sacred office of the ministry the right to pronounce that forgiveness ("Whoever's sins you forgive are forgiven them"), in the preached Word in reading of the Scriptures and the sermon; and this same Word is given us in the Lord's Supper, very body and blood of Christ for us. This Word does what Christ set it out to do, to be forgiveness and life everlasting, because St. Peter spoke truly, "Lord, to whom shall we go? Your words are everlasting life" (John 6:68).

Where is the Holy Spirit? In my feelings? In emotional euphoria? The sparkly, happy, tinglies caused by a rush of endorphins and other brain chemicals that I mistakenly call the Holy Spirit?

No. The Holy Spirit is present, quickening the dead by the Word of the Holy Gospel which truly, and actually, brings the dead to life and puts flesh on dead, decayed bones.

-CryptoLutheran

rockytopva said:

When the Holy Spirit came upon my soul it was with a divine light and energy. Let's look at Einsteins E = mc2 theory...

E (Energy) = mc2 (mass * light * light)

We can divide and conclude that....

Mass (m) = E (energy) / c2 (light * light) and their are three varieties...

Mass - That which has weight is basically cooled plasma (E/c2)
Intelligence - Our thinking can produce a spiritual light!
Spirituality - Let me break that down!


Spiritual E/c2

Spiritual E (Energy) - Motivation, warmth, and love.
Spiritual c2 (light) - Faith, hope, charity, joy

Products of Spiritual c2 include...

SPIRITUAL LIGHT

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Strangely I'm reminded of Gnosticism and Mormonism in this presentation.

A. CHARITY Galatians 5 (The Holy Bible): Love, Joy , Peace, Fortitude, Patience, Gentleness, Goodness,
Temperance, Meekness. I COR. 13 (The Holy Bible): Kindness, Politeness, and Perfection
Caritus: Latin’s highest form of Love. Charit'e: French derivative, "Cheri" means beloved.
Charis: The Greek word for Grace (Unconditional Love). Chara: The Greek word for Joy.
Eucharisteo: The Greek word for gratitude… Arguably one of the most important wavelengths of light
Charizomai: The Greek word for well-favored…. This is that “lucky” feeling that inspires us to move forward!
Chairo: The Greek word for Cheer. English expletive "Cheerio Mate!"
Chrestos: Useful (in manner or morals), gracious. Chrestotes: Excellence in character.
Chara- Greek work for Joy Euchrestos: Greek for profitable.
Charisma: Heavenly Graciousness Chrisma: Heavenly Anointing
English derivatives can form Charm, Character, Courtesy, Care, Charisma, etc.

B. FAITH - Jesus Christ sought to build this in his Gospels

C. HOPE "My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." - Ovid

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Yeah, no. You can't turn ἀγάπη into χαρισμά and using ICo 13:13 for it is not only eisegesis but in complete and flagrant disregard to the argument that the Apostle is making at this point in time.

SPIRITUAL ENERGY - Love, warmth, encouragement, motivation

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Obviously you don't have enough understanding to be blessed by a traditional service, I have always encountered these things there.

***The opposite of E/c2 is z (absolute zero) / d (darkness)****

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Nope, you're just making things up, do you even math?

SPIRITUAL ABSOLUTE ZERO - Cold, hatred, discouragement, laziness

SPIRITUAL DARKNESS - Hate, Fear, depression, sorrow, melancholy

The spiritual cold is opposite of the spiritual energy and I do not dig it!

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So lets see, you hate self-control because you'd rather be in a state of fervor because that is somehow more spiritual, you fear a well balanced Christian life where grief can occur just as much as ecstasy.

rockytopva said:

Most Christians I know are so into their own world that they forget why people visit the churches. There are three things that the sinful heart longs for...

Acceptance, Appreciation, Attention... Spiritual things!

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The sinful heart does not long for these things, he is at enmity with God, he cannot understand spiritual things and he will happily exchange true acceptance for a false acceptance being based on lies and his ability to pass under the radar by working himself up into a carnal fervor, (quite easy to do when you don't have the fruit of self-control)

If they go to church and find a spiritual waste land don't be surprised if you do not see them any more!

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While the church does still have unregenerate within I don't see why we should compromise in order to bring more in.

rockytopva said:

I believe that the churches are seven...

1.Ephesus – Apostolic – Leaving the first love… “All they which are in Asia be turned away from me…” – II Timothy 1:15
2.Smyrna – Martyrs – Persecutions ten days… Foxes Book of Martyrs describes ten Roman persecutions.
3.Pergamos – Orthodox – A pyrgos is a fortified structure – Needed for the dark ages.
4.Thyatira – Catholic – The Spirit of Jezebel is to persecute, control, and to dominate. This spirit can invade any church!
5.Sardis – Protestant – A sardius is a gem, elegant yet hard and rigid. Doctrine in the head, little in the heart.
6.Philadelphia – Methodist – To obtain sanctification was to do so with love.
7.Laodicea – Charismatic – Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?


In which to the Sardisean everything must fit in the mindset... With an actual fear of anything 'emotional!' But I am not Sardisean!

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Why make it an allegory? Why make it in this way? You are the only person I have come across who makes this application, it is an interpretation that would have made absolutely no sense to the Seven Churches to which it was sent;


Further I think I take issue with how you view the Laodicean church; This is the Amen's complaint against them:
"You are neither hot nor cold, I wish that you were one of them so that I wouldn't need to spit you out of my mouth, though you deceive yourselves you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. Come back to me and be healed, open to my knocking and I will eat with you."

I do not believe that you can hold both your Church Age view of the 7 Churches and your belief that the Charismatic church is spiritually alive and be consistent.

rockytopva said:

I kinda believe that Jimmy Swaggert and the old PTL bunch were spewed out. The Lord has his issues with the age.

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And that has relevance to you self-identifying with the Church that God says is neither hot nor cold how? If you believe that they have been removed from the Church, yet still identify yourself with that Church you're still saying that you self-identify as lukewarm.

Not to mention that you are still struggling upstream away from a historical-critical reading where the book is Pastoral and immediate in that it takes the idea from Daniel of the book of prophecy being sealed up and declares it now unsealed at the end of the age (this phrase being present tense and applicable to the first century when John wrote it).

rockytopva said:

Separate our self from foolishness and contrariness... Disobedience and mess!
If your not going God's way... I do not want to be bothered with you.
And the bible says that they will think it strange, when you don't run with them!
But... That's all right! If I got to walk alone... I will just walk alone!
For God I live... And for God I die!

And folks are coming into the church... And their coming for something...
But it's so dead and cold in our churches, until you can iceskate down to the pulpit!
And whose standing behind that pulpit y'all.. Reverend Polar Bear!
Somebody say Amen!
Cold as ice! No deliverance! No life! No Holy Ghost! No power!
No separation! No Holiness! The devil is a liar!

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Amen.

rockytopva said:

The hottest ticket these days are in the Charismatic independent church. Few care about doctrine these days. The message to the Laodiceans fits the day and the time.

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Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mt 7:15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mt 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mt 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mt 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mt 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mt 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mt 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mt 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mt 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Mt 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Mt 7:29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh 14:25 ¶ These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Ps 1:1 ¶ Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Ps 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Ps 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

oh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

progmonk said:

Why make it an allegory? Why make it in this way? You are the only person I have come across who makes this application, it is an interpretation that would have made absolutely no sense to the Seven Churches to which it was sent;

Further I think I take issue with how you view the Laodicean church; This is the Amen's complaint against them:
"You are neither hot nor cold, I wish that you were one of them so that I wouldn't need to spit you out of my mouth, though you deceive yourselves you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. Come back to me and be healed, open to my knocking and I will eat with you."

I do not believe that you can hold both your Church Age view of the 7 Churches and your belief that the Charismatic church is spiritually alive and be consistent.

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I gotta ask: What brand of Baptist are you? Kinda sounds like a not long to be Baptist kinda Baptist. I remember being a similar kind of Baptist. I seemed to cause some ulcers in the deacons.