Why Haven't I Spoken In Tongues?
- Thread starter HolyRevival
- Start date
In the life of George Clark Rankin we have a teenager brought up Presbyterian and then desiring to shout like the Methodist... I have posted this in the Pentecostal forum... I think the story bares repeating...
http://www.christianforums.com/t7757196/
"Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin
Then he got it good in the Methodist church in Georgia...
After the team had been fed and we had been to supper we put the mules to the wagon, filled it with chairs and we were off to the meeting. When we reached the locality it was about dark and the people were assembling. Their horses and wagons filled up the cleared spaces and the singing was already in progress. My uncle and his family went well up toward the front, but I dropped into a seat well to the rear. It was an old-fashioned Church, ancient in appearance, oblong in shape and unpretentious. It was situated in a grove about one hundred yards from the road. It was lighted with old tallow-dip candles furnished by the neighbors. It was not a prepossessing-looking place, but it was soon crowded and evidently there was a great deal of interest. A cadaverous-looking man stood up in front with a tuning fork and raised and led the songs. There were a few prayers and the minister came in with his saddlebags and entered the pulpit. He was the Rev. W. H. Heath, the circuit rider. His prayer impressed me with his earnestness and there were many amens to it in the audience. I do not remember his text, but it was a typical revival sermon, full of unction and power.
At its close he invited penitents to the altar and a great many young people flocked to it and bowed for prayer. Many of them became very much affected and they cried out distressingly for mercy. It had a strange effect on me. It made me nervous and I wanted to retire. Directly my uncle came back to me, put his arm around my shoulder and asked me if I did not want to be religious. I told him that I had always had that desire, that mother had brought me up that way, and really I did not know anything else. Then he wanted to know if I had ever professed religion. I hardly understood what he meant and did not answer him. He changed his question and asked me if I had ever been to the altar for prayer, and I answered him in the negative. Then he earnestly besought me to let him take me up to the altar and join the others in being prayed for. It really embarrassed me and I hardly knew what to say to him. He spoke to me of my mother and said that when she was a little girl she went to the altar and that Christ accepted her and she had been a good Christian all these years. That touched me in a tender spot, for mother always did do what was right; and then I was far away from her and wanted to see her. Oh, if she were there to tell me what to do!
By and by I yielded to his entreaty and he led forward to the altar. The minister took me by the hand and spoke tenderly to me as I knelt at the altar. I had gone more out of sympathy than conviction, and I did not know what to do after I bowed there. The others were praying aloud and now and then one would rise shoutingly happy and make the old building ring with his glad praise. It was a novel experience to me. I did not know what to pray for, neither did I know what to expect if I did pray. I spent the most of the hour wondering why I was there and what it all meant. No one explained anything to me. Once in awhile some good old brother or sister would pass my way, strike me on the back and tell me to look up and believe and the blessing would come. But that was not encouraging to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense and the noise was distracting me. Even in my crude way of thinking I had an idea that religion was a sensible thing and that people ought to become religious intelligently and without all that hurrah. I presume that my ideas were the result of the Presbyterian training given to me by old grandfather.By and by my knees grew tired and the skin was nearly rubbed off my elbows. I thought the service never would close, and when it did conclude with the benediction I heaved a sigh of relief. That was my first experience at the mourner's bench.
As we drove home I did not have much to say, but I listened attentively to the conversation between my uncle and his wife. They were greatly impressed with the meeting, and they spoke first of this one and that one who had "come through" and what a change it would make in the community, as many of them were bad boys. As we were putting up the team my uncle spoke very encouragingly to me; he was delighted with the step I had taken and he pleaded with me not to turn back, but to press on until I found the pearl of great price. He knew my mother would be very happy over the start I had made. Before going to sleep I fell into a train of thought, though I was tired and exhausted. I wondered why I had gone to that altar and what I had gained by it. I felt no special conviction and had received no special impression, but then if my mother had started that way there must be something in it, for she always did what was right. I silently lifted my heart to God in prayer for conviction and guidance. I knew how to pray, for I had come up through prayer, but not the mourner's bench sort. So I determined to continue to attend the meeting and keep on going to the altar until I got religion.
Early the next morning I was up and in a serious frame of mind. I went with the other hands to the cottonfield and at noon I slipped off in the barn and prayed. But the more I thought of the way those young people were moved in the meeting and with what glad hearts they had shouted their praises to God the more it puzzled and confused me. I could not feel the conviction that they had and my heart did not feel melted and tender. I was callous and unmoved in feeling and my distress on account of sin was nothing like theirs. I did not understand my own state of mind and heart. It troubled me, for by this time I really wanted to have an experience like theirs.
When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.
After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me:
"Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions."
And the following questions were asked and answered:
"My son, do you not love God?"
"I cannot remember when I did not love him."
"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"
"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."
"Do you accept him as your Savior?"
"I certainly do, and have always done so."
"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"
"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."
"Do you love everybody?"
"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."
"Can you forgive him?"
"Yes, if he wanted me to."
"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"
"Yes, sir; I can do that."
"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."
Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."
The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."
That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.
As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.
I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. "
Notice in the story that the circuit rider emphasized the uniqueness of the professor. You simply cannot go after other peoples blessing. Here in Virginia the Spirit would fall and everyone would get a unique blessing. Some would fall out in the Spirit, some would weep, some would shout, some would speak in tongues, and some would interpret. But it was all unique, no one would speak in tongues alike.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7757196/
"Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin
Then he got it good in the Methodist church in Georgia...
After the team had been fed and we had been to supper we put the mules to the wagon, filled it with chairs and we were off to the meeting. When we reached the locality it was about dark and the people were assembling. Their horses and wagons filled up the cleared spaces and the singing was already in progress. My uncle and his family went well up toward the front, but I dropped into a seat well to the rear. It was an old-fashioned Church, ancient in appearance, oblong in shape and unpretentious. It was situated in a grove about one hundred yards from the road. It was lighted with old tallow-dip candles furnished by the neighbors. It was not a prepossessing-looking place, but it was soon crowded and evidently there was a great deal of interest. A cadaverous-looking man stood up in front with a tuning fork and raised and led the songs. There were a few prayers and the minister came in with his saddlebags and entered the pulpit. He was the Rev. W. H. Heath, the circuit rider. His prayer impressed me with his earnestness and there were many amens to it in the audience. I do not remember his text, but it was a typical revival sermon, full of unction and power.
At its close he invited penitents to the altar and a great many young people flocked to it and bowed for prayer. Many of them became very much affected and they cried out distressingly for mercy. It had a strange effect on me. It made me nervous and I wanted to retire. Directly my uncle came back to me, put his arm around my shoulder and asked me if I did not want to be religious. I told him that I had always had that desire, that mother had brought me up that way, and really I did not know anything else. Then he wanted to know if I had ever professed religion. I hardly understood what he meant and did not answer him. He changed his question and asked me if I had ever been to the altar for prayer, and I answered him in the negative. Then he earnestly besought me to let him take me up to the altar and join the others in being prayed for. It really embarrassed me and I hardly knew what to say to him. He spoke to me of my mother and said that when she was a little girl she went to the altar and that Christ accepted her and she had been a good Christian all these years. That touched me in a tender spot, for mother always did do what was right; and then I was far away from her and wanted to see her. Oh, if she were there to tell me what to do!
By and by I yielded to his entreaty and he led forward to the altar. The minister took me by the hand and spoke tenderly to me as I knelt at the altar. I had gone more out of sympathy than conviction, and I did not know what to do after I bowed there. The others were praying aloud and now and then one would rise shoutingly happy and make the old building ring with his glad praise. It was a novel experience to me. I did not know what to pray for, neither did I know what to expect if I did pray. I spent the most of the hour wondering why I was there and what it all meant. No one explained anything to me. Once in awhile some good old brother or sister would pass my way, strike me on the back and tell me to look up and believe and the blessing would come. But that was not encouraging to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense and the noise was distracting me. Even in my crude way of thinking I had an idea that religion was a sensible thing and that people ought to become religious intelligently and without all that hurrah. I presume that my ideas were the result of the Presbyterian training given to me by old grandfather.By and by my knees grew tired and the skin was nearly rubbed off my elbows. I thought the service never would close, and when it did conclude with the benediction I heaved a sigh of relief. That was my first experience at the mourner's bench.
As we drove home I did not have much to say, but I listened attentively to the conversation between my uncle and his wife. They were greatly impressed with the meeting, and they spoke first of this one and that one who had "come through" and what a change it would make in the community, as many of them were bad boys. As we were putting up the team my uncle spoke very encouragingly to me; he was delighted with the step I had taken and he pleaded with me not to turn back, but to press on until I found the pearl of great price. He knew my mother would be very happy over the start I had made. Before going to sleep I fell into a train of thought, though I was tired and exhausted. I wondered why I had gone to that altar and what I had gained by it. I felt no special conviction and had received no special impression, but then if my mother had started that way there must be something in it, for she always did what was right. I silently lifted my heart to God in prayer for conviction and guidance. I knew how to pray, for I had come up through prayer, but not the mourner's bench sort. So I determined to continue to attend the meeting and keep on going to the altar until I got religion.
Early the next morning I was up and in a serious frame of mind. I went with the other hands to the cottonfield and at noon I slipped off in the barn and prayed. But the more I thought of the way those young people were moved in the meeting and with what glad hearts they had shouted their praises to God the more it puzzled and confused me. I could not feel the conviction that they had and my heart did not feel melted and tender. I was callous and unmoved in feeling and my distress on account of sin was nothing like theirs. I did not understand my own state of mind and heart. It troubled me, for by this time I really wanted to have an experience like theirs.
When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.
After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me:
"Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions."
And the following questions were asked and answered:
"My son, do you not love God?"
"I cannot remember when I did not love him."
"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"
"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."
"Do you accept him as your Savior?"
"I certainly do, and have always done so."
"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"
"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."
"Do you love everybody?"
"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."
"Can you forgive him?"
"Yes, if he wanted me to."
"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"
"Yes, sir; I can do that."
"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."
Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."
The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."
That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.
As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.
I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. "
Notice in the story that the circuit rider emphasized the uniqueness of the professor. You simply cannot go after other peoples blessing. Here in Virginia the Spirit would fall and everyone would get a unique blessing. Some would fall out in the Spirit, some would weep, some would shout, some would speak in tongues, and some would interpret. But it was all unique, no one would speak in tongues alike.
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Smith Wigglesworth had the same struggle, here is the story as I have read it. In which I also post a video...
Two stirring spiritual experiences changed him and his ministry forever:
(1) In 1893 while attending one of the famous "higher life" conferences at the resort town of Keswick, the equivalent of an American camp meeting, he testified to being sanctified or baptized in the Spirit, as taught by the Keswick preachers.
(2) A greater turning point in his life occurred in 1907. He heard that people were receiving the Holy Spirit at Sunderland and decided to go and see for himself.
Convinced that he had already gotten the Pentecostal Baptism, he grew discouraged while attending the services. Though "slain in the Spirit" several times, his spiritual hunger became even more intense.
Finally, after 4 days of seeking to speak in tongues, he decided to head home but first stopped by the vicarage to say good-bye. Mary Boddy, the vicar's wife, said, "Brother Wigglesworth, it is not the tongues you need but the Baptism. If you will allow God to baptize you, the other will be all right." Although protesting that he had previously been baptized, he asked her to lay hands on him and pray that he would receive. After she did so and unexpectedly left the room, "the fire fell," he recalled. "The joy was so great that when I came to utter it my tongue failed, and I began to worship God in other tongues as the Spirit gave me utterance."
After arriving home, he found that Polly doubted his new experience. She claimed she was as much Spirit baptized as him without speaking in tongues. "I have been preaching for 20 years," she asserted, "and you have sat beside me on the platform. But on Sunday you will preach yourself, and I'll see what there is in it."
The next Sunday he entered the pulpit and, prompted by the Spirit, preached from Isaiah 61:1-3: "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings...."
The bold and fluent preaching that came forth startled his wife as she sat in the back of the mission. Speaking in a voice loud enough that everyone around her heard, Polly sputtered, “That's not my Smith, Lord; that's not my Smith!” Polly was filled with the Spirit soon after, and the Bowland Street Mission changed dramatically. They continued in ministry until Polly's death 6 years later in 1913. Unknown to Wigglesworth, that humble beginning had ignited a preaching ministry that would eventually take him around the world.
Introduction to Smith Wigglesworth w/ Lakewood music - YouTube
Two stirring spiritual experiences changed him and his ministry forever:
(1) In 1893 while attending one of the famous "higher life" conferences at the resort town of Keswick, the equivalent of an American camp meeting, he testified to being sanctified or baptized in the Spirit, as taught by the Keswick preachers.
(2) A greater turning point in his life occurred in 1907. He heard that people were receiving the Holy Spirit at Sunderland and decided to go and see for himself.
Convinced that he had already gotten the Pentecostal Baptism, he grew discouraged while attending the services. Though "slain in the Spirit" several times, his spiritual hunger became even more intense.
Finally, after 4 days of seeking to speak in tongues, he decided to head home but first stopped by the vicarage to say good-bye. Mary Boddy, the vicar's wife, said, "Brother Wigglesworth, it is not the tongues you need but the Baptism. If you will allow God to baptize you, the other will be all right." Although protesting that he had previously been baptized, he asked her to lay hands on him and pray that he would receive. After she did so and unexpectedly left the room, "the fire fell," he recalled. "The joy was so great that when I came to utter it my tongue failed, and I began to worship God in other tongues as the Spirit gave me utterance."
After arriving home, he found that Polly doubted his new experience. She claimed she was as much Spirit baptized as him without speaking in tongues. "I have been preaching for 20 years," she asserted, "and you have sat beside me on the platform. But on Sunday you will preach yourself, and I'll see what there is in it."
The next Sunday he entered the pulpit and, prompted by the Spirit, preached from Isaiah 61:1-3: "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings...."
The bold and fluent preaching that came forth startled his wife as she sat in the back of the mission. Speaking in a voice loud enough that everyone around her heard, Polly sputtered, “That's not my Smith, Lord; that's not my Smith!” Polly was filled with the Spirit soon after, and the Bowland Street Mission changed dramatically. They continued in ministry until Polly's death 6 years later in 1913. Unknown to Wigglesworth, that humble beginning had ignited a preaching ministry that would eventually take him around the world.
Introduction to Smith Wigglesworth w/ Lakewood music - YouTube
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A
Andrea411
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....please do not judge these churches to harshly. It is easy to maintain order when the congregation files in and out and the Holy Spirit never moves.... in spirit filled churches it is often difficult to discern what is of God and what is of the flesh. Mature Christians are usually orderly, but newly saved or newly Baptized, are more difficult.... it is well worth the struggle. Better to upset a few Christians then to quench the Spirit... with so many people moving around from church to church the pastors have to get to know people and with freedom comes freedom.....
God bless, andrea
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You just illustrated my point . i wasn't saying it was the end all and be all . yet you responded defensively .
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In the Bible speaking in tongues meant speaking in actual languages. The gift was given to apostles so that they could preach to those whose language they did not speak. Today, just about every language has Christian speakers, so there is not much need for people to speak in tongues. In the occasion that you might be preaching to someone who speaks a language you don't know, then God will give you the gift of speaking in tongues to enable you to communicate with them.
What is the gift of speaking in tongues?
What is the gift of speaking in tongues?
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Andrea411
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“We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” Please read it again carefully, we HEAR them in our own language.... if you hear 20 people talking at the same time, even if one of them was speaking your language you would not know it... it would be a garbled mess.... they each heard them ALL speaking in their own language, the Roman, the Greek, etc etc. The language was tongues and the Lord touched the listeners ears to understand.... while others there only saw a bunch of drunkards in the morning.
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i don't think so, given this passage:
If anyone speaks in a tongue, twoor at the most threeshould speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God (1 Corinthians 14:27-28)
either way there is absolutely no reason to speak in tongues in a church where everyone speaks the same language:
Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? (1 Corinthians 14:6)
But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue (1 Corinthians 14:19)
also, speaking in tongues is for communicating God's word with a person of another language, it is not a "prayer language" between a believer and God:
Acts 2:11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabswe hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!
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He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself: - 1 Corinthians 14:18
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: - 1 Corinthians 14:18
Speaking in tongues is something that is self edifying and something that the Apostle Paul did quite often. The church at Corinth wanted to meet together to speak in tongues all the time. Which the Apostle Paul said was not edifying for the church. For more on tongues I turn to the devotions I have copied on my readings of Smith Wigglesworth...
For sixteen years Smith Wigglesworth preached that he had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, when in fact he had only received the anointing of the spirit. He explains that it was though he was on the outside of the Garden of Eden looking in. But after he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, it was as though he had regained access to the Garden of Eden, with the Holy Spirit serving as the fiery sword keeping evil out while he tasted of the good of the Lord. Smith Wigglesworth believed that there were three variations of tongues:
1. The initial tongues giving upon baptism.
2. The tongues spoken in prayer not meant to be interpreted.
3. The tongues given out with a purpose of being interpreted to your native language.
Smith Wigglesworth reminds his audience that since he left their presence, they do not know what he has done. He may have lost anointing or favor with God. He might be like people who have lived holy lives, preached sanctification, and their initial tongues were helpful; but they are now in a backslidden condition… A life not worthy of the language… Something got in the way. They have kept their language, but have lost their zeal and fire. Wherefore Smith Wigglesworth Re-emphasizes…
1. Go two days without growing… You have lost your vision!
2. Go a week without growing… You are a backslider!
Smith Wigglesworth encourages people to grow daily into the kingdom. He said that he would rather hear Christians who knew not the power of God, but were growing; than hear people who received the fullness of the power of God, and were now self-satisfied. Smith Wigglesworth also reemphasizes that, like the apostles, he did very little for the kingdom of God before he got the Holy Ghost... with the speaking in tongues! Smith Wigglesworth also emphasizes that the Giver is to be received before the gifts. Salvation always precedes sanctification, and sanctification will always precede the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Sanctification prepares the body for the Holy Spirit, and when the body is rightly prepared for the Holy Spirit, and then it is the work of Jesus to baptize with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit then makes Jesus king in your life; you regard him as Lord and Master over all things, and you become submissive to him in all things. You are not afraid to say, “You are mine! I love you!”
Smith Wigglesworth, like his earlier Methodist mentors, believed sanctification as something that sweetens the spirit up, making people more spiritual and loving. His wife once testified that she knew Smith was sanctified when he quit complaining about his food. Wigglesworth states that we are sanctified so that nothing hinders us in the manifestation of the Glory of God. In this way we are robbed of all pride, evil, and freely led of the Spirit. Evil thoughts come from the unclean believer, the man who is not entirely sanctified.
Wigglesworth also stresses obedience as a fruit of sanctification. “The Word is to be swallowed, not prayed over! If you ever pray over the Word of God there is some disobedience; where there is some disobedience; you are not willing to obey. If you come into the election of the sanctification of the Spirit, you will be obedient in everything concerning that Word. In the measure you are not obedient, you have not come into the sanctification of the Spirit.” – Smith Wigglesworth, New Zealand, 1922
Concerning discernment Wigglesworth states, “Most people think they have discernment; but if they would turn their discernment on Themselves for twelve months, they would never want to ‘discern’ again. The gift of discernment is not criticism. I am satisfied that in Pentecostal circles today, our paramount need is more perfect love. I have found many notable people in the world whom I know personally, who have gotten to running another person down and finding fault. They are always fault finding and judging people outright. God save us from criticism! When we are pure in heart we only think about pure things!”
The difference between those being led by the Holy Spirit and those who are deceived by Satan is joy, gladness, and a good countenance instead of sadness, sorrow, and depression. Jesus comes with joy into the soul and lifts you higher and higher, it is the spirit who gives light. When satanic power begins to rule; then there is weariness, then people’s faces are like a tragedy, and then their eyes glare as though they have passed through a terrible trial. You are always right to test the spirits (1 John 4:1), if not you will be sure to be caught napping.
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: - 1 Corinthians 14:18
Speaking in tongues is something that is self edifying and something that the Apostle Paul did quite often. The church at Corinth wanted to meet together to speak in tongues all the time. Which the Apostle Paul said was not edifying for the church. For more on tongues I turn to the devotions I have copied on my readings of Smith Wigglesworth...
For sixteen years Smith Wigglesworth preached that he had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, when in fact he had only received the anointing of the spirit. He explains that it was though he was on the outside of the Garden of Eden looking in. But after he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, it was as though he had regained access to the Garden of Eden, with the Holy Spirit serving as the fiery sword keeping evil out while he tasted of the good of the Lord. Smith Wigglesworth believed that there were three variations of tongues:
1. The initial tongues giving upon baptism.
2. The tongues spoken in prayer not meant to be interpreted.
3. The tongues given out with a purpose of being interpreted to your native language.
Smith Wigglesworth reminds his audience that since he left their presence, they do not know what he has done. He may have lost anointing or favor with God. He might be like people who have lived holy lives, preached sanctification, and their initial tongues were helpful; but they are now in a backslidden condition… A life not worthy of the language… Something got in the way. They have kept their language, but have lost their zeal and fire. Wherefore Smith Wigglesworth Re-emphasizes…
1. Go two days without growing… You have lost your vision!
2. Go a week without growing… You are a backslider!
Smith Wigglesworth encourages people to grow daily into the kingdom. He said that he would rather hear Christians who knew not the power of God, but were growing; than hear people who received the fullness of the power of God, and were now self-satisfied. Smith Wigglesworth also reemphasizes that, like the apostles, he did very little for the kingdom of God before he got the Holy Ghost... with the speaking in tongues! Smith Wigglesworth also emphasizes that the Giver is to be received before the gifts. Salvation always precedes sanctification, and sanctification will always precede the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Sanctification prepares the body for the Holy Spirit, and when the body is rightly prepared for the Holy Spirit, and then it is the work of Jesus to baptize with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit then makes Jesus king in your life; you regard him as Lord and Master over all things, and you become submissive to him in all things. You are not afraid to say, “You are mine! I love you!”
Smith Wigglesworth, like his earlier Methodist mentors, believed sanctification as something that sweetens the spirit up, making people more spiritual and loving. His wife once testified that she knew Smith was sanctified when he quit complaining about his food. Wigglesworth states that we are sanctified so that nothing hinders us in the manifestation of the Glory of God. In this way we are robbed of all pride, evil, and freely led of the Spirit. Evil thoughts come from the unclean believer, the man who is not entirely sanctified.
Wigglesworth also stresses obedience as a fruit of sanctification. “The Word is to be swallowed, not prayed over! If you ever pray over the Word of God there is some disobedience; where there is some disobedience; you are not willing to obey. If you come into the election of the sanctification of the Spirit, you will be obedient in everything concerning that Word. In the measure you are not obedient, you have not come into the sanctification of the Spirit.” – Smith Wigglesworth, New Zealand, 1922
Concerning discernment Wigglesworth states, “Most people think they have discernment; but if they would turn their discernment on Themselves for twelve months, they would never want to ‘discern’ again. The gift of discernment is not criticism. I am satisfied that in Pentecostal circles today, our paramount need is more perfect love. I have found many notable people in the world whom I know personally, who have gotten to running another person down and finding fault. They are always fault finding and judging people outright. God save us from criticism! When we are pure in heart we only think about pure things!”
The difference between those being led by the Holy Spirit and those who are deceived by Satan is joy, gladness, and a good countenance instead of sadness, sorrow, and depression. Jesus comes with joy into the soul and lifts you higher and higher, it is the spirit who gives light. When satanic power begins to rule; then there is weariness, then people’s faces are like a tragedy, and then their eyes glare as though they have passed through a terrible trial. You are always right to test the spirits (1 John 4:1), if not you will be sure to be caught napping.
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I have spoken it tongues to what I guess i think is tongues but I felt no connection with the Lord....and I thought like you that I was speaking some jibberish. I don't know but there was one time when I had sinned and I asked God to forgive me and it was like something grabbed my vocal cords and I started just uttering mysteries. I think it was to God to cast the devil away from me since I was feeling a lot of condemnation for the sin. Other then that believe. You are and just have faith. I mean I was at alot of revival's and I would speak tongue's but even I really didn't feel I had a relationship with God. But God always knew me and I went back to my father when I was 21 and I have never just let my life go after that.
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just because he edifies himself doesn't mean that his speaking in tongues has no practical use (like speaking to people of another language)
Why do you omit the next verse?
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.
it is very clear, we should not speak in tongues in church.
To understand, we must read all of 1 Cor. 14. It is made clear that we are not to speak in tongues in church:
22 It follows that speaking in other languages is intended as a sign,[h] not for believers but for unbelievers. But prophecy is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 Therefore, if the whole church assembles together and all are speaking in other languages and people who are uninformed or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your minds? 24 But if all are prophesying and some unbeliever or uninformed person comes in, he is convicted by all and is judged by all. 25 The secrets of his heart will be revealed, and as a result he will fall facedown and worship God, proclaiming, God is really among you.
unless there are only two or three and someone is there to interpret:
26 What then is the conclusion, brothers? Whenever you come together, each one[i] has a psalm, a teaching, a revelation, another language, or an interpretation. All things must be done for edification. 27 If any person speaks in another language, there should be only two, or at the most three, each in turn, and someone must interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, that person should keep silent in the church and speak to himself and to God.
Thus the practice of speaking in tongues as practiced in some churches today is totally unbiblical.
Are you implying that I am not filled with joy, gladness, and a good countenance just because I don't speak in tongues? What most churches who practice speaking in tongues do is nothing like the Biblical practice of speaking in tongues.
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the bible instructs that one prays so they might interpret their tongue . this point seems to be over looked even when stated repeatedly .
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Three variations of tongues.
1. The initial tongues given in Baptism
2. The tongues meant for edifying the believer.
3. The tongues given out as a message meant for interpretation
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. - 1 Cor 14: 18-19
The Apostle Paul spoke in tongues a lot. But when he was in church would rather speak words with understanding that those around may be edified. In my Pentecostal Holiness church when a message in tongues was given out there would be a hush in the church until someone interpreted.
1. The initial tongues given in Baptism
2. The tongues meant for edifying the believer.
3. The tongues given out as a message meant for interpretation
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. - 1 Cor 14: 18-19
The Apostle Paul spoke in tongues a lot. But when he was in church would rather speak words with understanding that those around may be edified. In my Pentecostal Holiness church when a message in tongues was given out there would be a hush in the church until someone interpreted.
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okay, but it doesn't happen to everyone.
These should be spoken only to oneself, as it is written in 1 Cor 14
Yes
Well that seems more Scriptural than what I've seen in other churches, where they all stand in a circle holding hands and all speak in tongues at once without much of a thought of interpretation.
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Agreed
The passage i believe says .. if there isn't an interpreter .. the individual should contining speaking (implied at a lower volume of voice) to themselves and God
Sure . though compartmentalizing a harmony misses some points .
I recall that . it was always so odd . i'd get these cool messages from the bible later on after coming home . but yeah . i originally started speaking in tongues two years after i was told about Jesus and it sounded more like a chant in some other language (and i hadn't heard of "tongues" prior) . the prayer (whatever form it took) always preserved me when i was feeling like something was trying to crush me .
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No it doesn't . (that's not written)
It says to go into your closet to pray . so that God who sees things done in secret will reward you openly . the closet passage doesn't have anything to do with tongues specifically, just all prayer.
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although Scripture doesn't say to "get in the closet" if there is no interpreter, it does say to stay silent altogether if there is no interpreter:
1 Corinthians 14:28 But if there is no interpreter, that person should keep silent in the church and speak to himself and to God.
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