Messianics and Dispensationalism
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Nathan Ethan
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I'm just referring to the several posts that were between mine. I've followed this whole thread.
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Yes, He did. You're absolutely right!!
MalkiTzedek comes to mind (he would be contemporary with Abraham).
I already named Abraham (originally from the "nations," and Noah (before the promise given to Abraham, so from the 'nations').
Then there would be Job, he's before Abraham...
and I'm sure there are others both before & after Abraham (but I have severe memory problems and I'm working off the 'top of my head' here).
But, once Israel had begun to be, His choices seem mostly to be people from Israel for Israel....
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and he was a biggie!! and Alexander!
Torah Lishmah
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To be clear, I don't support the idea that God is somehow having his hands tied to what men do - for in that case, He'd not be God. ...but what is said is that the Lord chose to use others from the Reform folks and the ones believing in dispensationalism to accomplish His ends. The Lord is the Lord - and can do whatever pleases him.
Psalm 135:6
For I know that the Lord is great,
And our Lord is above all gods.
6 Whatever the Lord pleases He does,
In heaven and in earth,
In the seas and in all deep places.
For I know that the Lord is great,
And our Lord is above all gods.
6 Whatever the Lord pleases He does,
In heaven and in earth,
In the seas and in all deep places.
Psalm 115:3
Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us,
But to Your name give glory,
Because of Your mercy,
Because of Your truth.
2 Why should the Gentiles say,
“So where is their God?”
3 But our God is in heaven;
He does whatever He pleases.
Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us,
But to Your name give glory,
Because of Your mercy,
Because of Your truth.
2 Why should the Gentiles say,
“So where is their God?”
3 But our God is in heaven;
He does whatever He pleases.
The Lord works all things out to His own ends - even the day of the wicked (Proverbs 16:4) - and part of his accomplishing that includes working with the understandings He allows others to develop. The reality of things like the Israeli State (as many have noted) is that those believing it to be set up by the Lord have also noted gratitude for the ones whom the Lord used to help it become created - with their understanding of Israel being perpetual being a key factor in pushing for a homeland to be developed in the first place.....and later pushing to have other believers give support for Israel in prayers/funding because of the belief in dispensationalism that says Israel was to last forever and not change.
Could the Lord have done so differently? Of course - but He didn't - and that's what central. He used what made a difference in His Sovereignty and others are blessed today because of it - so it doesn't make sense when others say people with a mindset of dispensation thought have never helped the Jewish people or have never been Jewish in ideology when others in Israel/for Jewish worldview have noted that aspects of dispensational thought already existed in the Jewish worldview.....with the Dispensationalist working on that and the Lord taking it further.
God can do anything He wishes - and His gracious using of others doesn't mean He HAD to do so. He allowed to occur - just as it was the case that the Lord didn't NEED to use the Israelites/Hebrews according to Deuteronomy 9 since it was already the case that they were the least of all people - and in His graciousness, He decided to work with them rather than choosing them because of them somehow being special in/of themselves (more shared in #45 ) - and He could've chosen ANYONE on the planet instead of Abraham to spread His Message....but He chose to use Abraham for the part.
And the same goes for His choosing those amongst the Dispensationalist to play a substantial role in the establishment of the Israeli State - and for that, I honor them and what the Lord did
That could happen
Although many Vegetarians within Judaism have noted that the sacrificial system itself - when it came to animal sacrifices - was no longer needed after the rise of Messiah...and thus, we can/should start today in regards to not eating meat any longer.But that's just one view..
Got ya
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Psalms 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
Isa. 8:20 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Prov. 28: 9 He that turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
1 John 2: 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Rev.22:10- 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Now it looks like to me those Laws are very important.....what do you say?
Okie
Isa. 8:20 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Prov. 28: 9 He that turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
1 John 2: 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Rev.22:10- 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Now it looks like to me those Laws are very important.....what do you say?
Okie
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Yes, it's all in the provided links.
I'm sorry, I must admit that I didn't read the links (I usually do on posts that I respond to). But your reply kind of threw me for a loop cos it sounded like you meant you wouldn't say they were alive during some common years....
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Torah Lishmah
The study of Torah for its own sake
No problem. I just wanted to note [for the rest of the readers] that Shem [aka - Melchizedek] and Abraham did not originate from the same generation. Shem was born before the mabul, an antediluvian patriarch. Not exactly a classic example of a "gentile" given his background. The antediluvian world, was a much different world than what we know of the "earth" and the "mankind" of today. The Rabbinic literature on the subject(s) are fascinating. Of course, I'm sure you already know all of this but I wanted to point this out for the rest of the readers.I'm sorry, I must admit that I didn't read the links (I usually do on posts that I respond to). But your reply kind of threw me for a loop cos it sounded like you meant you wouldn't say they were alive during some common years....
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Messianic Jewboy
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I'm NOT saying that non Jews are not subject to keep the commandments. What I'm saying is isn't John writing to a specific group or is John being universal?
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Andres88
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Torah Lishmah
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Do you have a source from a reputable Torah scholar?
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