- Jan 25, 2009
- 19,765
- 1,429
- Faith
- Oriental Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- US-Others
Thanks for the shout-out, Bruh..
Blessings...Personally, I don't really see what the issue would be fully on it when seeing the ways that transitions occurred within the commandments
As noted best elsewhere:
Torah was meant to change; don’t read it as a timeless book of rules. Some things change within Torah. At first Israel was told meat for eating had to be slaughtered at the Tabernacle (Lev 17:3-4). But this was for the time in the desert. Later when Israel moved into the land the practice would change (Deut 12:15). One of the big ways Torah was meant to change was when the culture changed. Solomon’s Temple was in many ways unlike the Tabernacle. The job of the Levites changed when Israel’s sanctuary was no longer a portable tent. Slavery was permitted but was also contrary to commands like “love your neighbor as yourself” and “you shall love the resident alien as yourself.” It was contrary to “I am the Lord who brought you out of the house of slavery.” Torah was meant to change. Torah now should be that slavery is abolished.
There should no more issue with transition in the Torah than one would have issue with Christ Himself and the Prophets doing the same dynamics with progression.
What was promoted in the time of the Mosaic differed from that of the Prophets - as there were no risings from the dead in the time of Moses, whereas it was a new thing in the time of Elisha/Elijah and the same with other miracles. And none of that was ever seen as a matter of either not having Torah established or not having Law - but it was seen as things building on one another. In example:
2 Kings 4:38-46
Death in the Pot
38 Elisha returned to Gilgal and there was a famine in that region. While the company of the prophets was meeting with him, he said to his servant, “Put on the large pot and cook some stew for these prophets.”
39 One of them went out into the fields to gather herbs and found a wild vine and picked as many of its gourds as his garment could hold. When he returned, he cut them up into the pot of stew, though no one knew what they were. 40 The stew was poured out for the men, but as they began to eat it, they cried out, “Man of God, there is death in the pot!” And they could not eat it.
41 Elisha said, “Get some flour.” He put it into the pot and said, “Serve it to the people to eat.” And there was nothing harmful in the pot
Death in the Pot
38 Elisha returned to Gilgal and there was a famine in that region. While the company of the prophets was meeting with him, he said to his servant, “Put on the large pot and cook some stew for these prophets.”
39 One of them went out into the fields to gather herbs and found a wild vine and picked as many of its gourds as his garment could hold. When he returned, he cut them up into the pot of stew, though no one knew what they were. 40 The stew was poured out for the men, but as they began to eat it, they cried out, “Man of God, there is death in the pot!” And they could not eat it.
41 Elisha said, “Get some flour.” He put it into the pot and said, “Serve it to the people to eat.” And there was nothing harmful in the pot
Elisha's third miracles is reminiscent of the healing of the water at Jericho (II Kings 2:19-22) when the water supply was contaminated..due to the rebuilding of the city having taken place under the shadow of Joshua's curse ( Joshua 6:26, I Kings 16:34, etc)--as the remedy offered by the New Joshua (Elisha), who had just crossed the Jordan, involved a new bowel and salt. New items being uncontaminated were customarily employed in rituals in the ancient Near East (Judges 16:11, I Kings 11:29, etc).....and elsewhere, salt was associated with the covenant and is included as part of offerings made to the Lord (Leviticus 2:13, Numbers 18:19, etc) as well as being used in other specific rituals (Judges 9L45, Ezekiel 16:4). But all of that's to say that the healing of the waters was truly done by Supernatural means - and something brand new to the times - even though it was similar to what occurred in Exodus 15:19-23 with the Lord using Moses to make bitter waters sweet by tossing in a piece of wood to make it sweet.
With the situation in 2 Kings 4:38-41, as with salt thrown into the water at Jericho, the flour used by Elisha is a visible sign of the Lord's power working through Elisha. ....and amazingly, after the poisonous gourd was cured, there was the final miracle of provision in II Kings 4:42-44 where people dependent on Elisha brought a small amount of food (i.e. "bread of the firsfruits"). A limited amount of food was once again multiplied in face of the incomprehension of the servant so that it not only provides for the immediate needs..but also produces a surplus......just as Elisha had done in II Kings 4:1-7, His master before him with another widow (I Kings 17:8-24) and as Jesus did often in Matthew 14:13-21/Matthew 15:32-39 and John 6, etc. It is the Final demonstration in the chapter of how the GOD of Elisha heals, provides and brings life from death.
With Jesus, it seems the same issue of working with natural resources to aid others is something He was concerned of...and something he seems He had a great tendency to affect supernaturally despite of what seemed logical (Luke 5) - be it thinking no provision could come when there was a shortage of material/resources for survival...or in times where there WAS an abundance of provision/resources available to rely upon and opportunity to trust more so in what one can do on their own rather than on what the Lord can provide----realizing that He is the one to trust rather than our own means. For He's the One giving ability to generate wealth as stated in Deuteronomy 8:18 - and it took the Lord having to do things new that hadn't occurred in His Day to drive the point home.
This can even be seen in the ways He healed others who were dead - in consistency with what the Prophets did PRIOR to Him. For others like Elijah and Elisha both had instances where they had to raise the dead back to life - 1 Kings 17/1 Kings 17:20-22 showing where Elijah literally laid upon a DEAD body without becoming unclean and raising the boy back to life...and Elisha his successor doing the same later:
2 Kings 4:33-352 Kings 4
When Elisha reached the house, there was the boy lying dead on his couch. 33 He went in, shut the door on the two of them and prayed to the Lord. 34 Then he got on the bed and lay on the boy, mouth to mouth, eyes to eyes, hands to hands. As he stretched himself out on him, the boy’s body grew warm. 35 Elisha turned away and walked back and forth in the room and then got on the bed and stretched out on him once more. The boy sneezed seven times and opened his eyes.36 Elisha summoned Gehazi and said, “Call the Shunammite.” And he did. When she came, he said, “Take your son.” 37 She came in, fell at his feet and bowed to the ground. Then she took her son and went out.
When Elisha reached the house, there was the boy lying dead on his couch. 33 He went in, shut the door on the two of them and prayed to the Lord. 34 Then he got on the bed and lay on the boy, mouth to mouth, eyes to eyes, hands to hands. As he stretched himself out on him, the boy’s body grew warm. 35 Elisha turned away and walked back and forth in the room and then got on the bed and stretched out on him once more. The boy sneezed seven times and opened his eyes.36 Elisha summoned Gehazi and said, “Call the Shunammite.” And he did. When she came, he said, “Take your son.” 37 She came in, fell at his feet and bowed to the ground. Then she took her son and went out.
And in the same way that Jesus Himself mirrored the progressive/new actions of the Prophets with healing others, he did the same when it came to restoring waters/making new things out of that which was dead. The miracle - his FIRST miracle in Cana - is evidence of that as seen in John 2:4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hexhw3wWmE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTAl-v2qkc8
To run out of food or wine during those seven days was a social nightmare. Mary realized the seriousness of the situation immediately. when she said “They have no wine” - indicating that the social standing of the family would be devastated and their reputation in the community would be ruined. John clearly tells us, “Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washing, each holding 20 to 30 gallons, Jesus told them, ‘Fill the jars with water.’ So they filled them to the brim” (John 2:6).
The stone jars held water normally used only for ceremonial washing, a symbolic act of cleansing from sin, not for cleaning off the dust of the road or other dirt. When you add the weight of the water to the weight of the stone jar, each full jar might weigh over 300 pounds. More than likely, the servants used smaller jars to go to the nearest well and bring back water to fill the large jars. Filling the water jugs so guests could wash themselves was a normal part of a servant’s job. However, dipping out some of the wash water to serve as a drink to someone was VERY unusual - for this would be like offering a cup of bath water to a guest in your home
Using ceremonial washing water to make good drink would be akin to taking dirty dishwater. The guests would have come to the wedding along a dusty road. If they rode on donkeys, they would have had to stop along the way to care for their animals. When they arrived at the wedding feast, they would dip their dirty hands into the water to wash off the sweat and grime of the day.
Jesus told the servants to fill the stone water jars that guests used for ceremonial washing with water, which they did (2:6-7). Six stone jars full would be a very large amount of water, and again, the water was not for drinking, but for ceremonial washing. When Jesus then tells them to take some water to the master of the banquet, the servants had to be confused - for wild to consider that Jesus was really going to give the master of the banquet ceremonial washing water to drink - but thankfully, somewhere between the servants drawing the water and taking it to the master of the banquet, the water turned into wine, the best wine
, which is contrary to normal practice, but appreciative to those in attendance (John 2:9-10). Jesus not only cleaned what was once dirty, but He made it into something wonderful...By turning water into wine, Jesus showed two important qualities of Himself. One, Jesus turned what is dirty into something amazing - for the ceremonial washing water, which sat in dirty washing pots would not have been tasteful to anybody at the wedding - but Jesus takes that and makes it into something POWERFUL....just as He does for all of those serving Him. He was not made UNCLEAN by that which made others such. Two, his miracle showed how when Christ gives, he gives PLENTY - in abundance...
And most importantly, it shows the power of Christ to begin whatever He may desire in regards to Law - for He is the Boss...He calls the SHOTS - and does only what His Boss (the Father) is seen doing (John 5:19).
Last edited:
Upvote
0
