2 Timothy 3:16

Mazzaroth said:

According to what organization? I'll look into it before I accept such a bold statement. And if it were not a legitimate question, what was the purpose of posting it? Genuinely confused by your response lol.

That same statement is said in the Gnostic Gospels, about how the world was made for Jame's sake or something, which is completely ludicrous. Who can believe that? You may as well believe you're Avatar: The Last Airbender too, and Neo from the Matrix while you're at it. It sounds like elusive nonsense to me, but I'm going to actually read it before I form an opinion.

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Lol - well the question was posed to the OP. In the oldest surviving text of the FULL Bible - The Shepherd was considered cannon - so it was considered scripture then.

What changed, is my question. He says the Bible is infallible and I'm sure those 4th century people did as well - but now what was cannon to them is no longer cannon to us. If we say the Bible is infallible then shouldn't all the original books of the Bible be considered cannon?

BryanN84 said:

I can not rule out the possibility that there were books in scripture that are not any more. I am well aware that the church in the 5th century (when the "Bible" was decided) was full of corruption. I mean Jude and a few others quote from the book of Enoch and yet we do not have that book. i was reading a writing from Ignatius the other day that really spoke to my heart, but I do believe the 66 books in our Bible today are genuine and true. Not to be taken away from. Did that answer the question? I actually am in the process of seeking a copy of the book of Enoch to read.

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The reason Jewish Scholars didn't include the book of Enoch is that they had VERY specific criteria as to what they would include in scriptural canon. One of those criteria is that they had to have a manuscript of the book in it's original language. NOT GREEK...by the way.

The most recent manuscript Jewish scholars could find was in Greek, and therefore, was not included in canon.

However, that doesn't mean that just because it's not included, it's not true. The verse in question is from Jude 1:14, and refers to the Second Coming of Christ.

There are other instances in the bible where quotes are used from a non-biblical source. Paul directly quotes Cretian prophet and poet, Epimenides, in Titus 1:12.

However, I believe every word in the bible in inspired by God, and that the bible is perfectly intact. I don't believe a God with a perfect prophetic record would allow His Word to be screwed up, altered, or messed with in any way with while there's still souls and spirits to save out there. NO WAY!

Also, I haven't found a single contradiction in the bible that the bible hasn't been able to explain to me upon further study.

BryanN84 said:

I can not rule out the possibility that there were books in scripture that are not any more. I am well aware that the church in the 5th century (when the "Bible" was decided) was full of corruption. I mean Jude and a few others quote from the book of Enoch and yet we do not have that book. i was reading a writing from Ignatius the other day that really spoke to my heart, but I do believe the 66 books in our Bible today are genuine and true. Not to be taken away from. Did that answer the question? I actually am in the process of seeking a copy of the book of Enoch to read.

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The Book of Enoch - Heaven Net - the best copy of Enoch I have found.

Never mind! I can see how wrong I truly am! I am to accept the bible as being infallible and perfect and I should follow every law or statement that is written in it! If I do this without thinking for myself then I will surely inherit eternal glory!

xXMikHaelXx said:

Never mind! I can see how wrong I truly am! I am to accept the bible as being infallible and perfect and I should follow every law or statement that is written in it! If I do this without thinking for myself then I will surely inherit eternal glory!

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Isaiah 46:10, "Declaring the end from the beginning and from
ancient times things which have not been done, saying,
‘My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure"


If we only look with natural eyes and hear with
natural ears we will completely miss what the
Spirit is saying to the churches in this hour.
"Is anything too difficult for the Lord?"
With His word alone He formed the Universe.
In the fullness of time He gave us the Word and
He gave us the Word made flesh.
Nothing that has happened has surprised God
Jesus was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Jesus is the inspiration for every book in the Bible
Genesis to Revelation is His Story..
God has given us His Holy Spirit to teach us and
lead us and guide us into all truth.
It is impossible to please God without faith.
With our natural senses we walk in this realm.
With our faith we walk in the Spirit.
His Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are
Sons and Daughters of God. It is with child-like faith
that we accept the provision of His word and enter
the Kingdom of God. All that is of the natural realm
fades away and we begin to partake of His divine nature.


Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.
Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

In Numbers 21, there is reference to "the book of the Lord's wars", but I don't see that book in the Bible.

The Bible is a collection of books and letters from various writers which people wrote. We could say that all the books included was a leading from God, and any books NOT included was also a leading from God, but then again, men are hardly perfect, even when they are being led by God.

Consider the apostle's election of the new 12th apostle to replace Judas (acts 1:12-26):

The disciples were told to “wait” until the Spirit was sent, and yet they quickly went ahead and chose a replacement for Judas. They did so out of a sense of urgency, since they thought the kingdom may come at any time. Matthias is selected, and yet we really don’t hear of him again, but later on Paul is raised up, and we don’t cease hearing of him, or from him. This certainly raises the question as to whether or not Paul was God’s replacement for Judas, while Matthias was the disciples’ choice.

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People can be wrong, even when the Holy Spirit is attempting to lead them. I'm not saying that the writings we have now, known collectively as "the Bible" are wrong, but that it would be a mistake to thin that people cannot be wrong even if they are inspired by the Holy Spirit at times in their lives.

xXMikHaelXx said:

Lol - well the question was posed to the OP. In the oldest surviving text of the FULL Bible - The Shepherd was considered cannon - so it was considered scripture then.

What changed, is my question. He says the Bible is infallible and I'm sure those 4th century people did as well - but now what was cannon to them is no longer cannon to us. If we say the Bible is infallible then shouldn't all the original books of the Bible be considered cannon?

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I read all your thread posts here. I enjoyed reading them.

Very interesting... It's like you are saying we need some sort of authority, that is guided by the Holy Spirit, to tell us which Books are in the Bible. This away, we can know whether or not Hebrews (unknown author) is Sacred Scripture and the Didache is not Sacred Scripture.

jakael02 said:

I read all your thread posts here. I enjoyed reading them.

Very interesting... It's like you are saying we need some sort of authority, that is guided by the Holy Spirit, to tell us which Books are in the Bible. This away, we can know whether or not Hebrews (unknown author) is Sacred Scripture and the Didache is not Sacred Scripture.

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We have an authority - don't even get me started on the Pope - and that authority is the Holy Spirit.

No man, or book, or woman, will ever be my authority.

I am a sheep - but I'm not a lemming.

I have a brain - I have the Holy Spirit - why would I ever need someone else telling me what to believe or not to believe.

xXMikHaelXx said:

We have an authority - don't even get me started on the Pope - and that authority is the Holy Spirit.

No man, or book, or woman, will ever be my authority.

I am a sheep - but I'm not a lemming.

I have a brain - I have the Holy Spirit - why would I ever need someone else telling me what to believe or not to believe.

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“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I,
but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh
I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me,
and gave Himself for me.” Galatians 2:20

All that Jesus did through a single body in His first coming,
He will again do through a corporate body in His second coming.
At this present time, there are those who are being called apart
to die to the outworking of their self-life, so Jesus might live His
life through them. A day must come in our lives, as definite as
the day of our conversion, when we give up all right
to ourselves and submit to the absolute Lordship of Jesus Christ.
There must be a day when, without reservation, we surrender
everything to Him….ourselves, our families, our possessions,
our business and our time. All we are and have becomes His, to be held
henceforth entirely at His disposal. From that day we are no longer
our own masters, but only stewards. Not until the Lordship of Jesus Christ
is a settled thing in our hearts can the Spirit really operate effectively in us.
He cannot direct our lives effectually until all control of them is committed
to Him. If we do not give Him absolute authority in our lives, He can be
present, but He cannot be powerful. The power of the Spirit is stayed.
Through redemption and the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, each of us
has been set in the Body of Christ with a specific calling and purpose.
As we join ourselves to His Body we will be supplied and equipped by
The five-fold ministry and should be able to identify our particular
placement within the Body and begin to function in our calling and ministry.
To the end that we might join together in bonds of love as the Holy Spirit
works through us and within to make us The Bride of Christ!

(1Co 12:12-18) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the
members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews
or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink
into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot shall say,
Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it
therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing?
If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? But now hath God set the
members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

xXMikHaelXx said:

We have an authority - don't even get me started on the Pope - and that authority is the Holy Spirit.

No man, or book, or woman, will ever be my authority.

I am a sheep - but I'm not a lemming.

I have a brain - I have the Holy Spirit - why would I ever need someone else telling me what to believe or not to believe.

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Exactly... I couldn't agree more, you just preached Catholic teaching... but I know that is the last thing you would want to hear, so for that, I am sorry.

BryanN84 said:

English Standard Version (©2001)
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

So judging by several other threads recently the question has to be asked: does Paul write the truth when he wrote this scripture I have quoted? It seems not everyone who posts here agrees. Now I know most here would never dream of telling God He is a liar. I mean those who hold to such craziness as above most certainly are calling God a liar since God said all scriptures are profitable and they have apparently deemed that not to be true. I wonder where they get their divine inspiration from?

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Paul is instructing Timothy;

You must continue in the things which you have learned; and been assured of; knowing from whom you have learned them; and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures; which are able to make you wise for salvation; through faith which is in Christ Jesus; All Scripture is given by inspiration of God; and is profitable for doctrine; for reproof; for correction; for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be complete; thoroughly equipped for every good work; I charge you before God; and the Lord Jesus Christ; who will judge the living and the dead; at His appearing and His kingdom; Preach the word! Be ready in season; and out of season; Convince; rebuke; exhort; with all longsuffering and teaching; For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but according to their own desires; because they have itching ears; they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth; and be turned aside to fables; But you be watchful in all things; endure afflictions; do the work of an evangelist; fulfill your ministry. I teach by subject; so the whole subject can be seen. Respectfully; Parsonsmom.

I don't see the question in or the point of this thread. All Christians believe that the Bible and every word in it is the literal word of God.