I really hate the book of Revelation
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timbo3
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When a person cannot make sense of something, the first thing many do is to shy away from it. Rather than digging deeper for an understanding, these find fault. David noted this principle regarding searching for God, saying: "The wicked one according to his superciliousness (Hebrew gobahh 'aph, literally meaning "according to the height of his nose.") makes no search. All his ideas are: "There is no God".(Ps 10:4) Many never look past their noses, unwilling to dig deep into the Bible to grasp what it means.
On the other hand, at Proverbs 2, we are reminded that "if, moreover, you call out for understanding itself and you give forth your voice for discernment itself, if you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures you keep searching for it, in that case you will understand the very fear of Jehovah, and you will find the very knowledge of God."(Prov 2:3-5)
Because the churches of Christendom continue to provide only spiritual "crumbs" (Luke 16:19-21) their members are left in the dark as to what the Bible really teaches, including Daniel and Revelation. Many of their religious leaders go around with much pomp and fanfare, but distribute nothing of anything measurable spiritually.
Both Daniel and Revelation shows the power of Jehovah God's foreknowledge, able to penetrate into the future with absolute reliability and unerring accuracy.
Jesus quoted from Daniel 9 at Matthew 24:15, calling him "Daniel the prophet". And to another contemporary, Ezekiel, Jehovah God noted that Daniel was righteous in his eyes, saying: "Or were it pestilence that I should send upon that land (of Judah) and should I actually pour out my rage upon it with blood, in order to cut off from it earthling man and domestic animal, even were Noah, Daniel and Job in the midst of it, as I am alive,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘neither son nor daughter would they deliver; they themselves because of their righteousness would deliver their soul.’”(Eze 14:19, 20)
Near the end of his life, an angel told Daniel that he was "someone very desirable".(Dan 9:23) Thus, Daniel was privileged to be a writer of God's word, writing down prophetic statements that have impact upon God's people in these "last days", as for example Daniel 2:41-45, whereby he wrote down that Jehovah God would "set up a kingdom (that) will crush and put an ends to all these kingdoms (all political governments now existing), and it itself will stand to times indefinite."(Verse 44)
And at Daniel 7, there is seen a "son of man" who receives "rulership and dignity and kingdom".(Dan 7:13) This "son of man" is shown to be Jesus Christ.(Matt 8:20)
This ties in directly with the Bible book of Revelation, written by one of Jesus faithful apostles (with the Revelation coming forth from God down through Jesus, Rev 1:1) for at Revelation 6, there is seen a rider (Jesus Christ) on a "white horse" who is given "a crown" of rulership, and has a bow, who "went forth conquering and to complete his conquest".(Rev 6:2) The beginning of his "conquest" was when he went to war against Satan and his demons, casting them out of heaven in 1914.(Rev 12:7-9)
As a result, verse 4 says that a rider on a "fiery-colored horse" came forth, being "granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him." This explains why for the first time that a global war was now experienced, World War I that began on July 28, 1914.
However, for those who shove both Daniel and Revelation aside, they will miss out on what is to happen yet in the future (as well in the past), according to God's timetable and how they fit in. Only the "fringes" has been touched. And Revelation 1:3 says: "Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and who observe the things written in it; for the appointed time is near."
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CherubRam
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If you pay no attention to the parabolic language in the bible, then how will you ever understand what is being said. What do you think God should do with the people that hate Him.
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You hate an entire book (Daniel) because of it's last few chapters?
Seems like you just want to crush a widely held belief... and secure yourself.
God can go back on His word if He wanted to.
But He does not because He is patient and tolerant. And His people are still in this world.
Seems like you just want to crush a widely held belief... and secure yourself.
God can go back on His word if He wanted to.
But He does not because He is patient and tolerant. And His people are still in this world.
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Phantasman
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I try to keep my studies confined to Jesus and the good news (Gospel) he taught. These messages do not contain anything I need or desire to further those studies. They appear to be more for the wicked to contemplate.
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I don't consider Revelation useful, but I feel like God speaks to certain people through strange ways, and Revelation may mean something important to some people.
However the way people have taken Revelation and combined it with other books of the Bible and attempted to map out some sort of cohesive timeline for the apocalypse or whatever is something I consider very foolish.
I would agree that a literal reading of Revelation is very angry. Christ returning with a sword to butcher his enemies? Get real! That was never the Christ of the gospels.
People always wanted the messiah to be a violent revolutionary and overthrow the Roman empire but Christ never was, and basically refused to be. Why would He return to do something He could have done while He was on earth, or whenever He wanted for that matter? As far as I am concerned that sort of view is absolute nonsense.
However the way people have taken Revelation and combined it with other books of the Bible and attempted to map out some sort of cohesive timeline for the apocalypse or whatever is something I consider very foolish.
I would agree that a literal reading of Revelation is very angry. Christ returning with a sword to butcher his enemies? Get real! That was never the Christ of the gospels.
People always wanted the messiah to be a violent revolutionary and overthrow the Roman empire but Christ never was, and basically refused to be. Why would He return to do something He could have done while He was on earth, or whenever He wanted for that matter? As far as I am concerned that sort of view is absolute nonsense.
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They are not false. They are hard to understand.
Please try not to hate them. Study and ask God for wisdom, while keeping an open mind.
Please try not to hate them. Study and ask God for wisdom, while keeping an open mind.
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That's basically it for me. Jesus was not like that animal depicted in Revelation. That image of fire-like eyes and feet of burning bronze is taken from Daniel. Jesus appeared to the disciples as an 'ordinary' man, after his resurrection.
Jesus was a prophet with a new revelation of the God of love. I think that it was the same Yahweh God, but some of the OT was written by men, and they put their own spin on what they were writing, not all the time, some of the OT is inspired by the Spirit in my opinion, and most of it is real history.
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The Book of Revelations is a strange text but the first 3 chapters are fairly clear in the messages sent to the 7 churches chosen by Christ. Chapter1 verse 20 says there is a 'secret meaning' about these 7 churches in Asia (now Turkey). What is this 'secret meaning' and are we meant to try and work out what it is? Why leave a message in this verse about a secret unless we are intended to work out what the secret is and reveal it.
The secret is now known and relates to the geographical location of these 7 churhes but when was this intended to be revealed? Presumably at Revelation Time, the Apocalypse, when hidden things will be revealed which poses the question... is this Revelation Time?
The secret is now known and relates to the geographical location of these 7 churhes but when was this intended to be revealed? Presumably at Revelation Time, the Apocalypse, when hidden things will be revealed which poses the question... is this Revelation Time?
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Soulgazer
Christian Gnostic
In ancient Christian lore, "secret" meant "hidden". Revelation "time" was 90AD, Emperor Domitian had taken Nero's pet peeve against "Crestians" and made it a the status quo world wide. Why? The Roman empire was a militaristic empire. "Crestians" refused to pick up a sword and fight. Which is why they were candidates for the arena. "Let's see how dedicated you are to not fighting".
Contrary to the misinformation sometimes circulated in religious circles, Rome was very tolerant of any and all religions. It would not tolerate "peaceniks" as the Empire's very economy and way of life depended upon conquest and occupation. It's "National Sport" was the gladiatorial arenas.
It's hatred of Israel, was because Israel was a hotbed of insurrection and revolution; Egyptians, Syrians and Ethiopians worshipped their own gods also---it was NOT because the Jews refused to abandon their god, as it is sometimes put forth. Greece was part of the empire also...still worshipped theirs too.
There is much more to it, but Emporer Constantine finally ended the "peace movement" in the fourth century, intentionally or otherwise, once and for all, by the simple expediant of embracing catholicism and painting crosses on his soldiers equipment. (Constantine left the throne 337AD. The last known gladiator competition in the city of Rome occurred on January 1, 404 AD. The Empire fell in 476AD) Constantine, being the most powerful man in the world, became the defacto head of the church.
This essentially changed the Christian faith forever, making it imperial friendly, with it's masses now willing to either fight, or face excomunication and loss of property and public shunning by being declared an enemy of Christ.
Although many people apply "revelation" to today, unless the past is understood, it is just so much Mayan calender.
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The 7 Asian churches are the stars of the first vision. Their coordinates form a starguide with 21 vectors that point to all the good things foretold. When you take a map and connect the 7 Asian churches in the order given, they form the outline of a dove, the symbol of the Holy Spirit, which Jesus said would be sent to show us all things.
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Sad, you dont believe in those two book, as I assume you believe in all the rest. Because EVERY book of the bible, were written by men who Jehovah God and Jesus, choosed. Daniel was a very FAITHFUL servant of Jehovah God. The book of Daniel WAS written by him, through Jehovah God, (the God of Israels), Holy Spirit . even if Daniel didnt understand,and didnt know it wasnt for his time, but our ,(Dan. 12:8,9 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end).
John who was sent to be on the Island of Patmos, as a form of imprisonment. Was ALSO a true servant of Jehovah God, and a true follower of Jesus. Jehovah God gave it to Jesus, to show John, what will happen starting at the end ,(Rev. 1:1,2 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John. Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw). NOTHING he seen and wrote down was a lie. Its because you have no knowledge of the meaning of Jehovah Gods words ,( Rom. 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge).
To understand that much are NOT speaking literally, even though some do. Satan WANTS, you/us NOT to believe ALL of Gods words. Because satan knows that will cost us our lives ,( 1Pet.5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour). many dont understand the symbolic words spoken at Rev., 13:17. the beast represent those over satan earthly governments in all. The mark is basically anything people do which is OF the government, And the things of the world. For example. Pledging to a flag, (which represent ones country), instead of showing loyalty to ONLY Jehovah God, Like Jesus did. Doing what the world does, like celebrating the birthdays of dead presidents , fornicating, etc. These things are against God, and Jesus , (James 4:4 , 1John 2:15,16 , John 17:16 and Rom. 12:2). these actions respresents the "MARK of the BEAST."
the book of Daniel is not false, either. Whats said at Dan. 12: 10 is so very true. Many today dont understand Jehovah God and Jesus, when using the word wicked. Didnt always mean evil people. It also meant those who live in a way unpleasing to them, They choose to live the way they want to ,(Psa. 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts). These could even be ministers who feel they do good things ,( Matt. 7:22,23). Dan. 2:44, shows God will soon rid the earth of manly governments. Jesus with a certain number of Heavenly being will govern the earth ,(Rev. 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth). And if you have a problem with those books, you must NOT have read Gods words in ALL books. Because there are things there which would make you think the WHOLE book is written by angry men. Let me break it down for you
Gen. 2:17 , (God said eating of a certain tree, the first couple will die, (theyre now dead)! ,John 17:3 ,(Jesus showed in order to live forever, we must know him AND his Father, (many refuse to even know him, NOT to mention his Father). ,Psa. 37:38 ,(the wicked and the transgressors, will be destroyed). , Matt. 7:21 ,(just because one say lord dont mean they going to Heaven, basically live). ,2 Thess. 2:10-12 ,(those who refuse to believe the truth, God will help them to believe the lies they want. Which means they will be destroyed). , Jonah 2:1,2 (God made a fish swallowed Jonah, because he didnt want to obey him). ,Job 1:8-22 ,(God allowed satan to hurt Job, in order to prove a point).
There are so many more scriptures, the point Im many is. Even though Jehovah God IS a loving ,([FONT='Times New Roman','serif'] [/FONT]1John4:8), and Just God ,([FONT='Times New Roman','serif'] [/FONT]Psa. 145:8,9). And he DOESNT to see ANY human destroyed ,( Ezek. 33:11). He NO JOKE!, and hes NOT one to be played with ,([FONT='Times New Roman','serif'] [/FONT]Gal. 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap). Just as he HAD men write the goodness about him ,(2Cor. 3:5 , 1Thess. 2:13 and 2Pet. 1:21). So did he make sure we know whatll happen if we DONT take ALL OF HIS WORDS seriously.
You though believe these books are by angry ,unloving individual, who wanted the peoples of the world killed by God, because of what happened two thousand years ago. And because you say .. people didnt know any better. Even thought they DID knew better because then Jehovah God personally spoke to them , they know NOW! and they STILL are living the way THE Governments and the way THEY choose to live. So dont get upset because a loving God WILL!... destroy ANYONE who REFUSE to live according to his laws. peace
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dollarsbill
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I love Revelation.
Revelation 21:1-5 (NASB)
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." 5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He *said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
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Phantasman
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Yeah. The New Jerusalem is supposed to come down out of heaven for us to dwell in? Jesus told us we were going to be IN heaven. I'm with Soulgazer. It's come and gone.
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C
Caesars Ghost
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The beginning of wisdom starts with the Q.
Question all things. Blind faith tends to lead one over a cliff bleating, 'why?', then to no avail.
Even the Bible exhorts us to test everything and hold to that which is good.
Perhaps this is God's way of leading you down the path you need to go so as to find him securely in your heart.
I've found the wisest track is to always avoid any sign posts or people who tell you never to question God or the Bible.
Question all things. Blind faith tends to lead one over a cliff bleating, 'why?', then to no avail.
Even the Bible exhorts us to test everything and hold to that which is good.
Perhaps this is God's way of leading you down the path you need to go so as to find him securely in your heart.
I've found the wisest track is to always avoid any sign posts or people who tell you never to question God or the Bible.
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Phantasman
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A truly intellectual thought on attaining spiritual wisdom and one I share as well.
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Yes 'secret' does mean 'hidden' and the 7 churches of Revelation may form the shape of a dove but that is not the 'secret meaning' referred to in the text, it is far more interesting and surprising than that. The churches chosen by Christ form two alignments which using great circle bearings take you to some very interesting and hugely significant places in the Holy Land and elsewhere and this is clearly part of a much older layout that Jesus and Mary of Magdala must have been aware of. Christ says 'I know all your ways' and at a mountain, Mount Arbel by the Sea of Galilee and next to the town of Migdal, which was then called Magdala, he talks about the 'end of time'. Mary of Magdala was not just the messenger of Christ but part of the message!
The geometric alignments of this ancient design of landscape geometry are a fact and the churches of Revelation are a part of it. This can be established with a little calculation about the locations chosen by Jesus.
So since this data will soon be published and it explains the 'secret meaning' of Chapter 1 verse20 of Revelations it stands to reason that this must be a time of Revelation when hidden things are revealed?
The geometric alignments of this ancient design of landscape geometry are a fact and the churches of Revelation are a part of it. This can be established with a little calculation about the locations chosen by Jesus.
So since this data will soon be published and it explains the 'secret meaning' of Chapter 1 verse20 of Revelations it stands to reason that this must be a time of Revelation when hidden things are revealed?
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