Gluttony

Easy - when it becomes excessive. Seriously - I guess it can be a tough line to draw. I think the same can be said for laziness and drunkenness. I think it can be hard to define, but in general I think I know when I cross that line (which happens frequently).

Gozreht said:

When does indulgence slip into gluttony?

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When it becomes a habit.

Gozreht said:

But wouldn't gluttony be more than just food? Can it be hoarding, sexual, drugs as well? So wouldn't it be more than just when it becomes a habit?

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An interesting question. I did some research concerning the meaning of the word "glutton" and it's various forms in the Bible based on the New American Standard Version.

1. The word "glutton" appears twice in the Bible, both in the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 21:20; Proverbs 23:21). It is a translation of the Hebrew word zalal which means to be light or worthless, make light of. It is translated as follows: despise (1); despised (1); glutton (2); gluttonous eaters (1); gluttons (1); worthless (1).

2. The word "gluttonous" appears three times in the Bible, one in the Old Testament (see "gluttonous eaters" above) and twice in the New Testament (Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:34). In both instances it is a translation of the Greek word phagos which means a glutton. These are the only two times this Greek word appears in the New Testament.

3. The word "gluttons" appears twice in the Bible, one in the Old Testament (see #1 above) and once in the New Testament (Titus 1:12) where it is a translation of the Greek word gaster which means the belly and is translated elsewhere as follows: child (7); womb (1)

An interesting aside re: #2 above -- the word phagos comes from the word phago which is another form of the word esthio which means to eat.

So, while gluttony may refer to other things besides food I suppose its main thrust seems to have to do with food.

Gozreht said:

But wouldn't gluttony be more than just food? Can it be hoarding, sexual, drugs as well? So wouldn't it be more than just when it becomes a habit?

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Good question - imo I'd say *indulgence* could certainly be anything more than food, yes. Indulgence I think covers a spectrum of things in which one can proceed to excess.

GreatDivide's post above is very good and informative. While the word seems a bit obscure as to how it's used, it seems to be associated generally with eating - which is always how I've associated it (rightly or wrongly).

I would say then that in general, gluttony refers to the sinful indulgence (i.e. to excess) of food (and perhaps drink?).

Drunkeness would then refer to the sinful indulgence of alcohol.

Lust to the sinful indulgence of things sexual, and so forth.

Personally, I think the main sin is that of indulgence in general. All the names we give to *specific* indulgences are helpful when talking specifics, but the real sin is the taking of anything to excess - especially if (and perhaps this is what is meant by "excess") we allow that 'thing' to gain power over us.

So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” (Romans 8:12ff)

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and

Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified. (I Cor 9:26f)

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and

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. (Eph 2:1ff)

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(C.f. Mt 23:25, Col 2:23, 2 Pet 2:10, Jude 1:7 etc.)

A quick search in Bible Gateway yielded this on self-indulgence:

8821 self-indulgence

Throwing off restraint and discipline and yielding to the desire to gratify selfish appetites and cravings. Scripture warns against such a characteristic and urges, instead, self-control, generosity and consideration for others. Source

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I guess in other words the opposite of self-indulgence is self-restraint, which as the source notes is a key theme of Christian teaching.

To my point about something becoming a habit - my thinking was that we are permitted to partake of most things - a little wine for example is not a sin (per se), "indulging" in a sweet confection is not a sin, etc. It becomes a problem when we don't exercise appropriate discipline so as to restrain ourselves and the partaking becomes habitual, something to which we've allowed ourselves to yield - which particular sin there is that (imho) it then becomes something which takes us away from our primary purpose in Him. Rather than yielding subserviently to His will, we become subservient to our fleshly cravings.

Good thread, btw.

Gluttony in what regard? Food, indulgences in material things, what?

I think gluttony is best described at least as I'd see it, as consuming in any way more than you reasonably require to survive.

DerSchweik said:

When it becomes a habit.

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I like this answer.

That doesn't answer the question though, where do you draw the line?
It's only gluttony if it is a habit?
even if that were true that does not explain where the line is.