1 Timothy 2:12
- Thread starter versesvsvices
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Thank you. It's a point many religious people seem to either not realize or outright ignore. I mean, I get why, but I think it's important to realize that telling a non-Christian that they might go to hell is like telling someone they might on day wake up as a hairless ferret.
I'm not exactly sure I get your meaning here. I don't feel like I'm missing anything, if that's what you mean.
All religions teach that.
There has never been an instance in my life where I've had to believe a bridge was there before I could see it in front of me.
This is one of the major problems I have while reading The Bible--it's constantly relying on extrinsic motivation to gain followers. It's not about leading a happy life and being a positive influence in the world--it's about doing as you're told to be rewarded, or don't and be punished. I don't want to be a good person to be rewarded when I'm dead--I want to be a good person because it is, by definition, good.
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Michaelismyname
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the thing is that if you choose to not believe Islamist or buddist or any teaching . you will not ever be able to arrive at any conclusion .
for me those teachings failed me - they offered little and delivered less.
I'm not exactly sure I get your meaning here. I don't feel like I'm missing anything, if that's what you mean.
God has said there is only ONE way and that is by listening to what he says ..
All religions teach that.
im only going to deal with this part of the post for now.
yes many religions say that
but if you do not choose to believe any and therefore follow the instructions of none -then you will never reach a conclusion - you will never know which are truth and which are false
that's all that i meant.
you can reason it until you run out of words and breath.
ie: you can stand before 10 roads and debate which leads to your desired destination .. but until you choose one and walk it .. all roads will remain unproven to you .
we testify to you - I am testifying to you that the lord Jesus is who he said he is and if you believe in him and trust him you will not perish but have everlasting life .
whether you believe that and prove you do by acting on it - remains your choice .
for me those teachings failed me - they offered little and delivered less.
I'm not exactly sure I get your meaning here. I don't feel like I'm missing anything, if that's what you mean.
God has said there is only ONE way and that is by listening to what he says ..
All religions teach that.
im only going to deal with this part of the post for now.
yes many religions say that
but if you do not choose to believe any and therefore follow the instructions of none -then you will never reach a conclusion - you will never know which are truth and which are false
that's all that i meant.
you can reason it until you run out of words and breath.
ie: you can stand before 10 roads and debate which leads to your desired destination .. but until you choose one and walk it .. all roads will remain unproven to you .
we testify to you - I am testifying to you that the lord Jesus is who he said he is and if you believe in him and trust him you will not perish but have everlasting life .
whether you believe that and prove you do by acting on it - remains your choice .
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What if there are no metaphorical roads? What if I have no desire to reach any supposed destinations?
Even if there are roads, I wouldn't follow one that talked about women and homosexuals the way the Bible does.
Even if there are roads, I wouldn't follow one that talked about women and homosexuals the way the Bible does.
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Michaelismyname
Well-Known Member
that also then, is your choice - and the result ? you remain in darkness ,unknowing ,unseeing.and without excuse for either.
romans 1...
Vs ..-"18. The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse...-"
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Michaelismyname
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I have already seen . i do not testify to you of theory , but of that which i have tangibly experienced and i assure you . the lord Jesus is true and he is exactly who he said he is .
If you believe in him and trust him
turn away from your own thinking and believe .. act on that belief in faith
then you will not perish but have everlasting life
please please do so -
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CrashTestPoster
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"So... what's the deal?"
That woman shouldn't teach or be in authority over a man.
That woman shouldn't teach or be in authority over a man.
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Not true. A husband is head of his wife only, and Paul turns that concept inside out and upside down as far as authority over goes.
John
NZ
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Intheboat
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The Bible can soothe and give peace because it is the Word of God - I have felt at times at the mercy of people who are not much more advanced than me in the walk and who therefore would not be able to lead me or even be able to see or understand me, but I guess we have to go humbly to God and pray for men to be able to see themselves as God would have them be. Women are under great pressure to fall away from being good women of the faith - so are men, If your Father has the loud racist side to him and you feel you are being asked to submit to this character I can see your pain.
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Boidae
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I know that for me it wasn't the fear of hell that turned me to God, but rather the love of Jesus through my then girlfriend (now wife) that turned me towards God. For me when I was threatened with hell would I felt as though I was backed into a corner and my fight or flight response would kick in and I would more often than not fight back.
When my wife took a chance on starting a relationship with me even though she is a Christian and she showed me Jesus through her life and His love is when I started to seek Him instead of fighting Him.
When my wife took a chance on starting a relationship with me even though she is a Christian and she showed me Jesus through her life and His love is when I started to seek Him instead of fighting Him.
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I'm fully aware that you believe you're right, Michael.
Hello Versesvsvices,
Very interesting thread you started. I care about the truth of God's Word but care less about women teaching or not teaching, having authority or not, over men in the church or otherwise, than I do about your eternal destiny.
The first we can discuss and resolve but your eternal soul is another matter, that cannot be simply discussed and dismissed.
Scripture says that God's Word is spiritually discerned and without that Spirit living inside you and opening your eyes, it will all seem like foolishness. It did to me as well.
1CORINTHINAS 1:18, 21, 23, 25
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
(same book) CH 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(same book) CH 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness";
I've studied the world's religions but would not say that I'm an expert of any sort. I know there are legends, mythology, stories and traditions that present what I would deem, counterfeit Christ's if you will but the true Christ, who is verifiable by historical accounts and biblical text, died for your sins, paid the price for you, that you may be washed clean of the wrongs you've committed, held blameless because the blame for your sin and mine fell upon him as did the punishment.
It is not about religion, it is all about RELATIONSHIP...relationship to God, through Jesus Christ. No other religious construct says and shows that God so love you that He gave His most precious gift, His only Son, heaped upon Him the sin of the world, though He was sinless and punished Him for it, brutally, horrifically and that that sinless One, rose again on the third day even as ancient prophecy said He would and He himself said He would.....FOR YOU....HE DID IT FOR YOU.
Following Jesus Christ is not about...NOT doing this and NOT doing that. Following Christ is about DOING this and DOING that....LOVING GOD AND OTHERS EVEN AS GOD THROUGH CHRIST LOVED US AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR US.
It is a free gift, already bought and paid for. If you can see yourself as God sees you, one He has already loved and loves enought to die for...see that yes...you have sin and a price was paid for it...to free you from the penalty of it....ACCEPT HIS GIFT AND HIS SPIRIT INTO YOUR LIFE....FOREVER.....
I'm praying for you even this moment.
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Michaelismyname
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If it's not about "NOT doing this and NOT doing that" then you're basically telling me the Bible is "inspirational" stories instead of an instruction book. It's hard to take a religion seriously when its own followers tell you not to take the religion's main text to heart, but I do see your point.
Can you be a good Christian if you write off the Bible as some book written by a bunch of dudes, and develop a relationship with God sans Bible?
Can you be a good Christian if you write off the Bible as some book written by a bunch of dudes, and develop a relationship with God sans Bible?
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Michaelismyname
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A believer in the lord Jesus is made good By the righteousness that God bestows ,by faith ,on us . No one is good enough by their own merit.
it would make no difference what a person intellectual decides in regard to the Bible . As it would not change a single word of it .
-and will never detract from the truth of the lord Jesus and your need to make a decision in regard to believing in him.
You see, we have no choice but to consistently bring your every question back to this point of personal decision . simply because, while you continue in a present chosen stance of non-belief -we can only assume that you will not believe any answer given in regard to the lord Jesus.
true questions of pure intent are a burden to the heart and the heart is only relieved of that burden by the questions being satisfied - the Lord Jesus said ..come unto me all you that are burdened and i will give you rest.. he will satisfy the true questioning heart with Truth.
But to come to him you must first repent of Unbeliefand believe that he is and that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.
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Michaelismyname
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lol - your fun .
but the question and the answer are irrelevant.
the lord Jesus awaits you placing your trust in him and believing in him .
it would be wonderful if you do so .
he is life and all that is Good.
but the question and the answer are irrelevant.
the lord Jesus awaits you placing your trust in him and believing in him .
it would be wonderful if you do so .
he is life and all that is Good.
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You're questions and statements are making me believe you are actually one of two things:
1) Not really a person who is seeking the truth or answers for your life and eternal soul. It appreas you are trying to stir up contention by being adversarial while trying to appear as genuine. It appears you may believe this is somewhat humorous and designed for your own entertainment.
Because you believe us ignorant Christian folk are sheep following stories, fables and foolishness.
2) Or...perhaps, (and that's a big perhaps), you are a follower of Christ who is trying to see how other disciples of Jesus would answer one who is adversarial to the faith.
I'm betting on #1) but wishing it was neither. My hope is that a third option was true...that you are seeking answers for your life and are concerned for your soul.
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Thanks, Michael. xD You're fun too, even if you're better at giving riddles than answers.
I'm just a person looking for answers, whatever those may be. I don't get Christianity. I just don't. But, growing up in a Christian society, I've felt pressured all of my life to do so, and so I am honestly attempting to. I've been surprised myself by how much I've come to dislike Christianity as I've learned more about it.
Still, I don't want to pop in, find a few things I dislike, and then write it off. I'm enjoying discussing the intricacies of the religion with everyone here, and, at the risk of sounding like a poophead, I think having a few agnostics and/or atheists around provides a healthy service. Talking to non-believers gives you the opportunity to think critically about your beliefs and helps you strengthen them, no?
Really, I'm not here to stir up contention. If I am being adversarial, it's out of honesty, not for my own entertainment. I simply have a lot of questions, and I have found this forum to be a great place to seek answers. I hope I don't seem like just some troll, and I really appreciate that this community hasn't treated me like one. I ask a question, I get answers, and, aside from shedding a few tears over how the general population here treats homosexuality, it's been a nice experience.
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