the church isn't the bride.

2ducklow · Aug 21, 2012

(Douay-Rheims) Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be like to ten virgins, who taking their lamps went out to meet the bridegroom and the bride.

the ten virgins are the church, they go to meet the bride and to her marriage feast.

Math. 25. 1 contains the greek words kai tex numphes in the earliest manuscripts which means and the bride. They are left out because most all christians doctrine is that the church is the bride, and this analogy destroys that doctrine. So the solution was to take these words out of the bible. Douay-Rheims didn't though.

which is just one more example of how false doctrine held by most all christians removes scripture from the bible.

Plus it was jewish custom for the bridegroom to go the bride and take her to the marriage feast.

In Jewish society there were three stages in getting married. First, there was an engagement. That was the time when the fathers of the bride and groom got together and worked out the financial settlement. This was followed by the betrothal, a ceremony held in the house of the bride's parents. The bride and groom made promises to one another in the presence of witnesses. But they weren't married yet and didn't start living together - the rules were very strict on that point - although if the bridegroom died the bride was regarded as a widow. Finally, after about a year, there was the marriage, when the bridegroom, accompanied by his friends, went to fetch the bride from her father's house and brought her back in procession to his own home where the marriage feast was held. It is most likely this procession that the ten girls in the parable were going to meet. We don't really know whether they were official bridesmaids, servants of the bridegroom, or children of friends and neighbours. Certainly, the marriage feast was a matter for the whole neighbourhood.

The Bridegroom is Coming!

A Story about Ten Girls

25 The kingdom of heaven is like what happened one night when ten girls took their oil lamps and went to a wedding to meet the groom.[a]
Matthew 25:1 to meet the groom: Some manuscripts add “and the bride.” It was the custom for the groom to go to the home of the bride’s parents to get his bride. Young girls and other guests would then go with them to the home of the groom’s parents, where the wedding feast would take place.

Matthew 25:1-13 CEV - A Story about Ten Girls - The kingdom - Bible Gateway

25.1 tou/ numfi,ou {B} It can be argued that the words kai. th/j nu,mfhj (“and the bride&#8221, which are supported by
a rather strong combination of witnesses, were omitted because they were felt to be
incompatible with the widely held view that Christ, the bridegroom, would come to fetch
his bride, the church. But it is doubtful whether copyists would have been so sensitive to
the logic of the allegory. Furthermore, those who omitted the words envisaged the
because of the wedding as taking place in the home of the fiancée; those who added the words envisaged similarity of ending, it is more likely that they were added at various places by scribes the bringing of the bride by the bridegroom to his home (or the home of his parents)
where the wedding takes place. Since the latter custom was more common in the ancient
world

http://obinfonet.ro/docs/exeg/exegres/metzger-alls.pdf

Metzger says it can be argued that the words 'and the bride" were omited because they didn't fit with a certain doctrine. So really they are arguing that the words "and the bride" are ingenuine because of their doctrine. But the facts support 'and the bride" whereas the decision to exclude "and the bride" is largely a doctrinal one.

I have the same book but an earlier version (1975) and in that version they give the traditonal reading a C rating which means they are just guessing as to which is the correct reading. Note that metzger says well the custom was for the bride and bridgroom to come to the wedding feast together, but scribes must have just added it. Total illogic necessitated by false doctrine. happens all the time.

Clare73 · Aug 21, 2012

You might want to read the parable again.

The ten virgins are not the Bride of Christ, the church,
because five of them were foolish and were shut out of the feast (the kingdom of God).
So it matters not whether they went out to meet the bridegroom and the bride, or just the bridegroom.

This parable corresponds to the parable in Mt 7:15-23 regarding good tree/good fruit, bad tree/bad fruit.

Both are about counterfeit faith vs. true faith.

Jesus says the same in both parables to those of counterfeit faith, "I never knew you."

The five foolish virgins and the fruit of the bad tree are those of counterfeit faith.

The five wise virgins and the fruit of the good tree are those of true faith.

Matt 25 is not about the Bride of Christ going into the wedding feast.

Unix · Aug 21, 2012

The 2009 Catholic Public Domain Version is also correct:
Then the kingdom of heaven shall be like ten virgins, who, taking their lamps, went out to meet the groom and the bride.

Probably the 1941 Confraternity Version too, but I left it in the locker at school so can't check now.
EDIT May 7. 2013: the 1941 Confraternity Version is also correct:
"Then will the kingdom of heaven be like ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom and the bride.

Vv 24:51-25:13 omitted althogether in 2012 UPDV 2.16. Reason: unattested.

Logos is releasing the 1989 Revised English Bible, I'll check it when it comes out!
EDIT May 7. 2013: the 1989 REB is not correct:
`When the day comes, the kingdom of Heaven will be like this. There were ten girls, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

Especially Western witnesses add καὶ τῆς νύμφης (D, Θ, f1, latt, sy et al.). This insertion (from the 2nd century?) is for text-critical reasons and because of its content almost certainly not the original text. It comes from the need to insert also into this text the correspondence νύμφη = church that is familiar from other NT texts (see below, Origin).

Luz, Ulrich (2005). A Commentary on Matthew 2128 -- Hermeneia. Minneapolis: Fortress Press

daq · Aug 22, 2012

There is more! Read it in conjunction with the passage before it and you will quickly see that Matthew 25:1 is directly correlated to what was just spoken in the previous chapter. This in turn shows what is the companion passage from Luke because the statement, (which I will begin the quote with) is found in ONLY these two following places:

Matthew 24:45-51 ~ Matthew 25:1 KJV
45. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49. And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50. The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51. And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
1. Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

This key statement is found in only one other place and it concerns the return of Yeshua from the wedding: ''Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?''

Notice also the LIGHTS-LAMPS BURNING ~

Luke 12:35-42 KJV
35. Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36. And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41. Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42. And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

The goal is therefore to become a SON and a BROTHER, (Yeshua was not ashamed to call us brethren) for there is neither male nor female in the Kingdom of Heaven.

2ducklow · Aug 22, 2012

Clare73 said:
You might want to read the parable again.

The ten virgins are not the Bride of Christ, the church,
because five of them were foolish and were shut out of the feast (the kingdom of God).

saying 5 were foolish doesn't prove that 5 of them were not the church.
It just proves that we must endure to the end, and that once saved always saved is not a true doctrine.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The will of the Father is that we keep our lamps lit till the Lord calls us home. Not all christians are doing that. some g et saved have a marvelous experience with the Lord, and that's it, they have nothing further after that. they are the 5 foolish virgins.

Clare said:
So it matters not whether they went out to meet the bridegroom and the bride, or just the bridegroom.

This parable corresponds to the parable in Mt 7:15-23 regarding good tree/good fruit, bad tree/bad fruit.

Both are about counterfeit faith vs. true faith.

Jesus says the same in both parables to those of counterfeit faith, "I never knew you."

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

A person can't cast out demons in Jesus name unless they are saved (the sons of skiva tried it and they failed). So there will be evangelists etc who have done mighty works cast out demons in the name of Jesus, and Jesus will say to them that he never knew them because they lost the light of God, and only had the annointing God gave them, which God promised they would never loose, even if the backslide and didn't know the lord anymore.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Christians sometimes loose their personal relationship with the Lord because they don't do what's necessary to keep it alive. Knowing Jesus and the Father is eternal life. Lots of people go to church and experience nothing cause they have lost that relationship with the Father and the son, they don't know the Lord anymore. they are the 5 foolish virgins.

(NKJV) John 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Jesus knows those who know him he doesn't know those who don't know him. Knows in the sense of having a realtionship with, not knows in the sense of knowledge.

(NKJV) 2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity."

(French LS) 2 Timothy 2:19 NÃ©anmoins, le solide fondement de Dieu reste debout, avec ces paroles qui lui servent de sceau: Le Seigneur connaÃ®t ceux qui lui appartiennent; et: Quiconque prononce le nom du Seigneur, qu'il s'Ã©loigne de l'iniquitÃ©.

French b ibles translate 'know' as 'connaitre' not 'savoir'. Connaitre means acquantied with, savoir means to have knowledge of. that is the

Clare said:
The five foolish virgins and the fruit of the bad tree are those of counterfeit faith.

The five wise virgins and the fruit of the good tree are those of true faith.

Matt 25 is not about the Bride of Christ going into the wedding feast.

very reliable and ancient manuscripts say it was the bridegroom and the bride going into the feast.

(Douay-Rheims) Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be like to ten virgins, who taking their lamps went out to meet the bridegroom and the bride.

The only reason it isn't translated that way is because to do so destroys the doctrine that the whole church is the bride of Christ.

2ducklow · Aug 22, 2012

oops faux pas

2ducklow · Aug 22, 2012

Unix said:
The 2009 Catholic Public Domain Version is also correct:
Then the kingdom of heaven shall be like ten virgins, who, taking their lamps, went out to meet the groom and the bride.

Probably the 1941 Confraternity Version too, but I left it in the locker at school so can't check now.

Vv 24:51-25:13 omitted althogether in 2012 UPDV 2.16. Reason: unattested.

Logos is releasing the 1989 Revised English Bible, I'll check it when it comes out!

Especially Western witnesses add καὶ τῆς νύμφης (D, Θ, f1, latt, sy et al.). This insertion (from the 2d century?) is for text-critical reasons and because of its content almost certainly not the original text. It comes from the need to insert also into this text the correspondence νύμφη = church that is familiar from other NT texts (see below, Origin).

Luz, Ulrich (2005). A Commentary on Matthew 2128 -- Hermeneia. Minneapolis: Fortress Press

I have the new american bible, st. josephs edition and it very frequently is correct when others are not, but not always. It even has a footnote to matthew 28.19 saying words to the effect that some find the verse to be spurious. Latter editions took that footnote out for obvious reasons.

However, after looking at several modern catholic translations, the ones they recommed for catholics, all of them take "and the bride" out of matthew 25.1. the Douay_Rheims version is no longer recommended reading for catholics. So they too finally realised what the word actually said and changed it in matthew 25.1, just like everyone else did.

2ducklow · Aug 22, 2012

daq said:
There is more! Read it in conjunction with the passage before it and you will quickly see that Matthew 25:1 is directly correlated to what was just spoken in the previous chapter. This in turn shows what is the companion passage from Luke because the statement, (which I will begin the quote with) is found in ONLY these two following places:

Matthew 24:45-51 ~ Matthew 25:1 KJV
45. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49. And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50. The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51. And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
1. Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

This key statement is found in only one other place and it concerns the return of Yeshua from the wedding: ''Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?''

The 10 virgins are the church 5 are wise and 5 are foolish. THe bridegroom and bride go to the wedding feast together. The bride came out of the church earlier, she is also called the manchild in revelations. She is the perfected saints who come out of the church in the last days and is raptured. The church goes through the tribulation and 5 are wise and 5 are foolish when they do. the 5 wise virgins go to the wedding feast as guests, not as the bride.

daq said:
Notice also the LIGHTS-LAMPS BURNING ~

Luke 12:35-42 KJV
35. Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36. And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41. Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42. And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

The goal is therefore to become a SON and a BROTHER, (Yeshua was not ashamed to call us brethren) for there is neither male nor female in the Kingdom of Heaven.

all christians are sons of God.some sons of God will be wedding guests, others will be the bride of Christ.

Clare73 · Aug 22, 2012

2ducklow said:
very reliable and ancient manuscripts say it was the bridegroom and the bride going into the feast.

(Douay-Rheims) Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be like to ten virgins, who taking their lamps went out to meet the bridegroom and the bride.

The only reason it isn't translated that way is because to do so destroys the doctrine that the whole church is the bride of Christ.

You may want to read my post again.
It addresses this assertion.

2ducklow · Aug 22, 2012

Clare73 said:
You may want to read my post again.
It addresses this assertion.

You didn't address my assertions because if you did you would have seen that I did address your assertion. and I somewhat agreed with it. The problem is that what you were saying makes no sense. you were saying that th 5 virgins represent good faith, but they are not christians. So I just responded to one of the parts that made sense, the p art about 5 virgins having good faith, since if they had good faith then they would be christians , the church.

matthew 25.10 "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. 11 "Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!'

the 5 virgins who were ready went into the feast (as wedding guests). that means they entered into the kingdom of heaven. Otherwise your interprettation means that god let in the unsaved to his wedding feast. that makes no sense. your interprettation makes no sense, you'd do better to look up one that has been thought out better that answers the contradictions you produce with your interprettation.

I said the 5 foolish virgins represent christians who didn't go all the way with God, they didn't run the race to the finish, they didn't endure to the end. The difference is you say they were never christians I say they represent born again christians who fall away from a relationship with the Lord.

There is no mention of the bride in matthew 7, but there is in matthew 25, even if you discount that matthew 25.1 says ' and the bride" because matthew 25 deals with the marriage feast and wedding, matthew 7 does not. That's because matthew 7 isn't dealing with the bride company/manchild. Mathew 7 is dealing with who goes into the kingdom. matthew 25 deals with the 2 classes of saints that go into the kingdom, wedding guests, and the bride of Christ.

Look , even those who believe all christians are the bride of christ typically say the wedding guests are born again saints after the rapture. your analogy has a gaping hole you avoid, namely calling the 5 virgins that have good faith, nonchristians.

2ducklow · Aug 22, 2012

Matthew 25:1

Wycliffe Bible (WYC)

25 Then the kingdom of heavens shall be like to ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went out to meet the husband and the wife[a];
Footnotes:

Matthew 25:1 which taking their lamps, went out meeting the spouse, or husband, and the spousess, or wife

Matthew 25.1 WYC - Then the kingdom of heavens shall be - Bible Gateway

Interesting that the wycliff bible, written way long ago, like the 13 or 14 hundreds, doesn't even question whether 'and the bride " should be in the verse, it just questions how it should be translated. Probably because it hadn't dawned on anyone yet that the parable proved that not all christians are the bride of Christ.

2ducklow · Aug 22, 2012

thought provoking question. Someone has to be the wedding guests, if it isn't christians then who are the wedding guests at the marriage feast of the Lamb?

Matthew 22:10-11 And those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was filled with guests. But when the king came in to behold the guests, he saw there a man who had not on a wedding-garment:

another question to ponder. Have all christians made themselves ready? Will all christians make themselves ready? Even christians who have lived sinfull lives all their life up until the last second when they repent?

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Or consider.

It is a widespread and common misconception among Christians that the bride of Christ and the Church are synonymous. The bride of Christ is not the Church, contrary to popular belief and teaching. It is true that the Church is the body of Christ, and the entire Church has been espoused or engaged to Christ, but every member of the Church will not be the bride of Christ. Faith in Christ is necessary to be in the Church, but faithfulness to Christ is necessary to be the bride of Christ.

The Church and the body of Christ are one and the same (Eph. 1:22-23), but no Scripture equates either one of these groups of Christians with the bride of Christ. Tradition is responsible for this doctrinal error, and tradition is a worthy opponent for anyone attempting to replace it with Scriptural truth.

The Church consists of all spiritually regenerated people from Pentecost to the end of the Age of Grace, which will end with the Firstfruits Rapture of the bride and her court. John the Baptist was not a member of the Church, since he died before Pentecost. Since the bride comes out of the Church, he could not be a member of the bride, and he even referred to himself as a “friend of the bridegroom” (John 3:29).

In 2 Corinthians 11:2-3 (KJV) Paul tells the Corinthians that he has “espoused” them to Christ:

For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Espoused means betrothed or engaged, and Paul clarifies his statement by saying that he desires to present them as a chaste (i.e., pure) virgin, but he is afraid that their minds would be led astray from sincere and pure devotion to Christ. This Scripture clearly states that sincere and pure devotion to Christ is a prerequisite for being presented as the chaste bride of Christ.

http://www.ffruits.org/v03/brideofchrist.html

daq · Aug 22, 2012

2ducklow said:
The 10 virgins are the church 5 are wise and 5 are foolish. THe bridegroom and bride go to the wedding feast together. The bride came out of the church earlier, she is also called the manchild in revelations. She is the perfected saints who come out of the church in the last days and is raptured. The church goes through the tribulation and 5 are wise and 5 are foolish when they do. the 5 wise virgins go to the wedding feast as guests, not as the bride.
all christians are sons of God.some sons of God will be wedding guests, others will be the bride of Christ.

If indeed you were a son you would know that the man is the house. However, if one enters into the House of God his own right hand is to the left of the Master. Therefore it is our right hand that is an offense and not his:

Matthew 5:29-30 KJV
29. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 18:8-11 KJV
8. Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
10. Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11. For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

And what or who are these ''little ones'' of which he speaks?
They are likened to ten virgins: five on the right and five on the left ~

Matthew 12:47-50 KJV
47. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49. And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50. For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Five on the right hand side and five on the left hand side:
Three against two and two against three are TEN ~

Luke 12:51-53 KJV
51. Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52. For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Thus the ten virgins are all part of a single man and the man is the keeper of the house.
And the house has ten lamps of virgin gold; five wise lambs and five foolish goats ~

Mark 13:32-37 KJV
32. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36. Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

If indeed you were a son you would already know these things; if indeed you had stood before the Bema Seat of Yeshua Christou you would have known these things; if indeed you were a son you would not be telling other believers that they are already become sons: for this is the hope of the inheritance and fulfillment of the Promise.

Ephesians 1:11-14 KJV
11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Believers are predestined and SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise when they come to Christ, (YHWH knows whether they were serious in repentance or not and therefore each is predestined at that time). This SEALING with the Holy Spirit is UNTIL-UNTO the redemption of the purchased possession, (we ourselves are the purchased possession of the Lord, purchased by his blood). Thus your redemption from the earth like the hundred and forty-four thousand comes at a later appointed time; your Great Day of Atonement, the day which no man knows, not even the angels of heaven, but the Father only.

Hebrews 4:1-2 KJV
1. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Hebrews 6:11-15 KJV
11. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12. That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
13. For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
14. Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
15. And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

Hebrews 10:36-39 KJV
36. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

2ducklow · Aug 23, 2012

daq said:
If indeed you were a son you would know that the man is the house. However, if one enters into the House of God his own right hand is to the left of the Master. Therefore it is our right hand that is an offense and not his
Matthew 5:29-30 KJV
29. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 18:8-11 KJV
8. Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
10. Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11. For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

And what or who are these ''little ones'' of which he speaks?
They are likened to ten virgins: five on the right and five on the left ~

Matthew 12:47-50 KJV
47. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49. And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50. For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Five on the right hand side and five on the left hand side:
Three against two and two against three are TEN ~

Luke 12:51-53 KJV
51. Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52. For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Thus the ten virgins are all part of a single man and the man is the keeper of the house.
And the house has ten lamps of virgin gold; five wise lambs and five foolish goats

Mark 13:32-37 KJV
32. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36. Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

If indeed you were a son you would already know these things; if indeed you had stood before the Bema Seat of Yeshua Christou you would have known these things; if indeed you were a son you would not be telling other believers that they are already become sons: for this is the hope of the inheritance and fulfillment of the Promise.

Ephesians 1:11-14 KJV
11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Believers are predestined and SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise when they come to Christ, (YHWH knows whether they were serious in repentance or not and therefore each is predestined at that time). This SEALING with the Holy Spirit is UNTIL-UNTO the redemption of the purchased possession, (we ourselves are the purchased possession of the Lord, purchased by his blood). Thus your redemption from the earth like the hundred and forty-four thousand comes at a later appointed time; your Great Day of Atonement, the day which no man knows, not even the angels of heaven, but the Father only.
Hebrews 4:1-2 KJV
1. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Hebrews 6:11-15 KJV
11. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12. That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
13. For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
14. Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
15. And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

Hebrews 10:36-39 KJV
36. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

This doesn't explain how the church is or isn't the bride of Christ.

interpreter · Aug 23, 2012

The ten virgins are 10 Christian nations invited to a great battle where the birds of the air gorge on human flesh at the marriage supper.

daq · Aug 23, 2012

2ducklow said:
This doesn't explain how the church is or isn't the bride of Christ.

Luke 12 was already quoted on the previous page: was that not enough?

Luke 12:35-36 KJV
35. Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36. And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

The knocking at the door pertains to the upper room and the Word to Laodicea:

Revelation 3:20-22 KJV
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup [GSN#1172 deipneo] with him, and he with me.
21. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

This deipneo-dine is to take the PRINCIPLE MEAL ~
The Wedding Feast-Banquet comes AFTER the Marriage:

Original Strong's Ref. #1172
Romanized deipneo
Pronounced dipe-neh'-o
from GSN1173; to dine, i.e. take the principle (or evening) meal:
KJV--sup (X -er).

John the Baptist-Immerser states that Yeshua already had the Bride and that she was given to him from the Father above; A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven:

John 3:27-29 KJV
27. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
28. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29. He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

Yeshua already had the Bride when he rode into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday ~

Matthew 21:1-5
1. And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Yeshua two disciples,
2. Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find a donkey tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
3. And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
4. All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5. Tell ye the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon a donkey, and a colt the foal of a donkey.

Zechariah 9:9
9. Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon a donkey, and upon a colt the foal of a donkey.

Palm Sunday is the commencement of the coronation of the King:
And the women are the cities are the COVENANTS ~

Galatians 4:24-26 KJV
24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

The Ekklesia-Church is not the Covenant, neither my mother, neither my bride:
The true Ekklesia are my Philadelphia BRETHREN and fellow warriors of the King.
Poor, poor, Ephraim; still thinking himself to be a heifer and a woman

Jeremiah 31:20-22
20. Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.
21. Set thee up waymarks, make thee high heaps: set thine heart toward the highway, even the way which thou wentest: turn again, O virgin of Israel, turn again to these thy cities.
22. How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the Lord hath created a new thing in the earth, A nqebah-female shall compass a geber-warrior-man!

My mother is clothed in blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine shesh-bleached-white linens, and goats' hair, and rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins; and my bride is of the daughters of Jerusalem, and she is adorned with the same, which are the curtains from on high

2ducklow · Aug 24, 2012

daq said:
Luke 12 was already quoted on the previous page: was that not enough?

your explanations aren't very clear. a clear explanation would be to state who the bride is, something you never did, then explain why he or she or they are the bride of Christ.

How does someone knocking on the door to an upper room and the word to Laodicea explain who the bride of Christ is? That was your explanation of luke 12. Ok I get what you're saying. your saying that Jesus knocked on a door in rev. 3.20, and after the wedding Jesus knocks on the door of their hearts after the wedding he will open, and that the 'sup' in rev. 3.22 refers to the marriage feast of the lamb. all of which says that the 10 virgins are not the bride. So luke doesn't explain who the bride is it explains, by your interpretation, that the 10 virgins aren't the bride. So your quoting of luke 12 doesn't explain who the bride is, it explains who the bride isn't. I ask you who the bride is and you tell me who it isn't and I'm suppose to be a dummy cause of it?

daq said:
Luke 12:35-36 KJV
35. Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36. And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

The knocking at the door pertains to the upper room and the Word to Laodicea:

Revelation 3:20-22 KJV
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup [GSN#1172 deipneo] with him, and he with me.
21. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

This deipneo-dine is to take the PRINCIPLE MEAL ~
The Wedding Feast-Banquet comes AFTER the Marriage:

Original Strong's Ref. #1172
Romanized deipneo]
Pronounced dipe-neh'-o
from GSN1173; to dine, i.e. take the principle (or evening) meal:
KJV--sup (X -er).

it's a giant leap from claiming that a principle meal has to refer to the marriage feast of the lamb. Is the marriage feast of the lamb the only principle meal? No.

I see rev. 3.20's knocking on the door refering to Jesus knocking on the door of our hearts to let him in for salvation. something that happens to al born again christians at the time of conversion. I see the knocking on the door in Luke 12 refering to God and Jesus calling the church up to heaven after the rapture. Because the bride and the bride groom are already together, it's after the marriage feast of the lamb.

daq said:
John the Baptist-Immerser states that Yeshua already had the Bride and that she was given to him from the Father above; A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven:

sometimes future events are expressed in the present tense, in the bible , and in our every day conversation. It's a means of expressing the certainty of a future event.

Psalms 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

God did not begat Jesus on the day he said he did. ps. 2.7 was written probably like 1000 years before Christ was born.

someone wins on a million dollar lottery ticketand shouts "I'm a millionaire". No he isn't a millionaire he only has the promise of being a millionaire. but because it is certain to take place he shouts 'I"m a millionaire."

John 3:27-29 KJV
27. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
28. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29. He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

Yeshua already had the Bride when he rode into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday ~

I see the bride as not having been formed at the time of the writting of john 3.27. The bride is perfect, no one has achieved perfection yet, so the bride doesn't even exist as of now. Plus rev. specifically states that new jerusalem is the bride. New jerusalem isn't here yet. New Jerusalem is still in the making.

daq said:
Matthew 21:1-5
1. And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Yeshua two disciples,
2. Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find a donkey tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
3. And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
4. All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5. Tell ye the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon a donkey, and a colt the foal of a donkey.

Zechariah 9:9
9. Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon a donkey, and upon a colt the foal of a donkey.

Palm Sunday is the commencement of the coronation of the King:
And the women are the cities are the COVENANTS ~

Rev. says the bride is new jerusalem. your saying here that it's the daughters of Jerusalem.

daq said:
Galatians 4:24-26 KJV
24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

The Ekklesia-Church is not the Covenant, neither my mother, neither my bride:
The true Ekklesia are my Philadelphia BRETHREN and fellow warriors of the King.
Poor, poor, Ephraim; still thinking himself to be a heifer and a woman …

Your posts are so cryptic as to be almost impossible to make heads or tails of. after carefull examination i see that you're saying the ekklesia- church isn't the bride. You seem to be implying that the ekklisa is the bride, but the ekklisa church isn't. If so why not just come right out and state so, instead of hiding it in all this cryptic talk? . and you're saying the ekklesia is the philadelphia church. I have no idea what you mean by poor poor ephraim and I don't know what you mean by this or how it even relates to who the bride is. all I can do or anyone can do is guess what you mean. why don't you state what you believe instead of leaving it to us to figure out what all your cryptic talk means? It doesn't make you look super smart cause you can talk cryptically. it makes it look like you're trying to hide your belief about the subject to me in cryptic talk that only you can descipher. .

The philadelpia church spoken of in the book of Revelation represents to me and others the current church age which began in 1900 at stones folly kansas., but I don't think it means that to you.

daq said:
Jeremiah 31:20-22
20. Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.
21. Set thee up waymarks, make thee high heaps: set thine heart toward the highway, even the way which thou wentest: turn again, O virgin of Israel, turn again to these thy cities.
22. How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the Lord hath created a new thing in the earth, A nqebah-female shall compass a geber-warrior-man!

My mother is clothed in blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine shesh-bleached-white linens, and goats' hair, and rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins; and my bride is of the daughters of Jerusalem, and she is adorned with the same, which are the curtains from on high …

Some, myself included, take verse 22 to refer to Mary and Jesus. I don't think you do however.

.
So what you're saying is that the bride is from or of the daughters of Jerusalem, and that Jesus already had that bride with him when John the baptist was around, and that the church is not the bride, and neither are any of the 10 virgins in the parable in matthew 25.

So who are the ones that are of the daughters of Jerusalem? My best guess based on a carefull examination of all your crptic remarks is that you consider everyone who believes like you do to be the philadelphia church and those are the ones who are the bride of christ cause the philadelphia church is the ekklisa and not the ekklisa-church and the philadelphia church is of the daughters of Jerusalem. And since you are the only one that believes this stuff here that you posted , that would mean only you are the bride of christ. why don't you just state right out what you believe? all we can do is guess what you believe. it doesn't make you look super smart.
My second guess would be that you don't have a clear understanding of who the bride of christ is and that you're just rambling along to nowhere.

the bible is clear about one thing, it says new jerusalem is the bride.

Revelation 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven of God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:9-10 And there came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, who were laden with the seven last plagues; and he spake with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

So, in short, I see you as saying that only you are the bride of christ and if perchance someone else should come along and bleieve like you do, then that person also will be the bride of Christ. And that would explain why you resort to all this cryptic talk. I'm also thinking that you didn't think anyone could figure out what you were saying meant.

daq · Aug 24, 2012

Perhaps it is all cryptic to you because you do not understand that I speak to you in the Scriptures and not of my own fanciful imagination. However, I cannot here and now quote the entire Bible to you, (is that too much for you to fathom?).

Isaiah 62:1-5 KJV
1. For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
2. And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.
3. Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.
4. Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5. For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

Zion-Jerusalem of above and her daughters represent the New Covenant which things are not seen with the eyes of the flesh. The New Covenant is likened to clothing which also is allegorized in the curtains and fine linens of the Tabernacle. Jerusalem of above is the Tabernacle of the Almighty Most High. The Tabernacle is the clothing; and when you finally come to see it you will be fully clothed in the Tabernacle of YHWH like as happened to John, (blessed are those who keep the sayings of the book of the Revelation of Yeshua).

Revelation 21:3-5 KJV
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

BEHOLD! THE TABERNACLE OF YHWH IS WITH MEN!
BEHOLD! I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW!

Do these things not sound familiar to you as a student of the Word?

2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJV
1. For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2 Corinthians 5:16-17 KJV
16. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Thus the Ekklesia-Church is not the bride, you are not the bride, neither am I the bride, neither is Philadelphia the bride; for the bride is the New Covenant like clothing for the sons of Israel, and sons of YHWH, even the sons of the resurrection. And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of YHWH shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies, and a son shall be born into the Kingdom; each in his or her appointed times

daq · Aug 25, 2012

2ducklow said:
I have no idea what you mean by poor poor ephraim and I don't know what you mean by this or how it even relates to who the bride is. all I can do or anyone can do is guess what you mean. why don't you state what you believe instead of leaving it to us to figure out what all your cryptic talk means? It doesn't make you look super smart cause you can talk cryptically. it makes it look like you're trying to hide your belief about the subject to me in cryptic talk that only you can descipher. .

You are the one who mistakenly claimed that every believer is already a son, (which emphatically implies yourself). Ephraim is one of the tribes unaccounted for in the list of the sealed 144,000 from Revelation Seven even though the passage quoted to you from the New Covenant passage in Jeremiah clearly states that YHWH will yet have mercy on Ephraim. The prescription for Ephraim, (who is likened to a heifer even though he fancies himself as a ''virgin'' and ''the bride'') the prescription, I say, is FORTY TWO MONTHS because he remains unwilling to ''acquit himself like a man'' (1Cor.16:13). Therefore take him down to the Jordan; baptize him in the holy-fire-waters thereof, so that he may learn to say ''Shibboleth''...

Jeremiah 31:20 KJV
20. Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.

Hosea 10:11 KJV
11. And Ephraim is as an heifer that is taught, and loveth to tread out the corn; but I passed over upon her fair neck: I will make Ephraim to ride; Judah shall plow, and Jacob shall break his clods.

Hosea 13:12-14 RSV
12. The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up, his sin is kept in store.
13. The pangs of childbirth come for him, but he is an unwise son; for now he does not present himself at the mouth of the womb.

How is it that Ephraim does not present himself at the mouth of the womb in the appointed time of child birth to be born a son? Check again the list of tribes from Revelation Seven and see if you find the name of Ephraim listed there?

The decree is FORTY AND TWO for all the heifers of Ephraim:
Each in his appointed times; and none shall be alone in his appointed times ~

Judges 12:4-6 KJV
4. Then Jephthah gathered together all the men of Gilead, and fought with Ephraim: and the men of Gilead smote Ephraim, because they said, Ye Gileadites are fugitives of Ephraim among the Ephraimites, and among the Manassites.
5. And the Gileadites took the passages of Jordan before the Ephraimites: and it was so, that when those Ephraimites which were escaped said, Let me go over; that the men of Gilead said unto him, Art thou an Ephraimite? If he said, Nay;
6. Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand.

2 Kings 2:22-25 KJV
22. So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spake.
23. And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
25. And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria [Ephraim].

Hosea 13:6-9 KJV
6. According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.
7. Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
8. I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.
9. O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help.

Revelation 13:2-5 KJV
2. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Poor Ephraim still has not yet learned to say Shibboleth; Forty Two Months for you O Ephraim! However; fear not, for we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren

2ducklow · Aug 25, 2012

daq said:
Perhaps it is all cryptic to you because you do not understand that I speak to you in the Scriptures and not of my own fanciful imagination. However, I cannot here and now quote the entire Bible to you, (is that too much for you to fathom?).

Isaiah 62:1-5 KJV
1. For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
2. And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.
3. Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.
4. Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5. For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

Zion-Jerusalem of above and her daughters represent the New Covenant which things are not seen with the eyes of the flesh. The New Covenant is likened to clothing which also is allegorized in the curtains and fine linens of the Tabernacle. Jerusalem of above is the Tabernacle of the Almighty Most High. The Tabernacle is the clothing; and when you finally come to see it you will be fully clothed in the Tabernacle of YHWH like as happened to John, (blessed are those who keep the sayings of the book of the Revelation of Yeshua).

Revelation 21:3-5 KJV
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

BEHOLD! THE TABERNACLE OF YHWH IS WITH MEN!
BEHOLD! I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW!

Do these things not sound familiar to you as a student of the Word?

2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJV
1. For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2 Corinthians 5:16-17 KJV
16. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Thus the Ekklesia-Church is not the bride, you are not the bride, neither am I the bride, neither is Philadelphia the bride; for the bride is the New Covenant like clothing for the sons of Israel, and sons of YHWH, even the sons of the resurrection.

OK, so finally you clearly state what you believe the bride of christ is. The New Testament.

daq said:
And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of YHWH shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies, and a son shall be born into the Kingdom; each in his or her appointed times

uh, you're the only one that believes the bride of Christ is the New testament, so that means you're the only son of God since you say one has to believe your beliefs to be a son born into the kingdom. So in effect I was right except that you just think your the only son of God not the only bride, I assume you believe Jesus is also a son of God so there's 2 of you.

the church isn't the bride.

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