Sabbath (12 noon to 12 noon)?

duordi · Feb 10, 2012

Sabbath and definition of a day.

Recently I was studying the fourth commandment which requires us to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holey.
When I looked at Geneses 1:3-5 the definition of when a day started and when it ended was much different then any of the traditionally accepted ideas.

Geneses 1:3-5
3 And God said, Let there be light, and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light day, and the darkness he called night. And there was evening, and there was morningthe first day.

It looks like a day started with Evening defined as 12 hours from full brightness 12:00 PM noon to 12:00 AM midnight which was then followed by Morning which went from 12:00 AM midnight to 12:00 PM noon.

This puts sunrise in the morning and sunset in the evening and allows the day to start with light as is indicated in Geneses 1.

If we follow the Jewish tradition a day begins at sunset which means an evening is 12 hours from sunset to sunrise and morning must be 12 hours from sunrise to sunset.

For this to be correct the day would start in darkness.
This is not the condition in Geneses 1:3 which indicates the day started in light.

An interesting point to this is that a Sabbath may actually start at noon on Saturday and end at noon on Sunday.

This would also explain why the early church celebrated the Sabbath on Sunday according to the Jewish tradition.
The early church may not have been celebrating on a different day but may have been following the true Bible command instead of the traditions of men.
If the Sabbath started on Saturday noon and ended on Sunday noon as the Jews defined a day then the early Christians were following Gods command correctly celebrating the Sabbath on Sunday morning before noon which by Gods definition would still be Saturday, the Sabbath.

Your thoughts?

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 29, 2012

duordi said:
Sabbath and definition of a day.

Recently I was studying the fourth commandment which requires us to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holey.
When I looked at Geneses 1:3-5 the definition of when a day started and when it ended was much different then any of the traditionally accepted ideas.

It looks like a day started with Evening defined as 12 hours from full brightness 12:00 PM noon to 12:00 AM midnight which was then followed by Morning which went from 12:00 AM midnight to 12:00 PM noon.

This puts sunrise in the morning and sunset in the evening and allows the day to start with light as is indicated in Geneses 1.

If we follow the Jewish tradition a day begins at sunset which means an evening is 12 hours from sunset to sunrise and morning must be 12 hours from sunrise to sunset.

For this to be correct the day would start in darkness.
This is not the condition in Geneses 1:3 which indicates the day started in light.

An interesting point to this is that a Sabbath may actually start at noon on Saturday and end at noon on Sunday.

This would also explain why the early church celebrated the Sabbath on Sunday according to the Jewish tradition.
The early church may not have been celebrating on a different day but may have been following the true Bible command instead of the traditions of men.
If the Sabbath started on Saturday noon and ended on Sunday noon as the Jews defined a day then the early Christians were following Gods command correctly celebrating the Sabbath on Sunday morning before noon which by Gods definition would still be Saturday, the Sabbath.

Your thoughts?

First I have heard of that.

...

God's Word · Jul 29, 2012

duordi:

From what I understand, the Sabbath would begin at sundown or some time around 6:00 p.m. Even today, we use such terminology as "MIDnight", because 12:00 p.m. would be the MIDDLE of the night or the sixth out of twelve hours of night. Also, the Bible gives us other day/night breakdowns such as "watches" (3 hour periods) and, of course, hours. I'm pretty confident that if you study such things out, then you will find that the evening/night actually began somewhere around 6:00 p.m. and not at 12:00 p.m. as you stated. Anyhow, I do agree that, Biblically speaking, the evening comes first and then the day.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 31, 2012

God's Word said:
duordi:

From what I understand, the Sabbath would begin at sundown or some time around 6:00 p.m. Even today, we use such terminology as "MIDnight", because 12:00 p.m. would be the MIDDLE of the night or the sixth out of twelve hours of night..

Even notice the time when the Destroyer came upon the Egyptians in Exodus and a cry in the story of the 10 virgins in Matt 25? pretty kewl

Exodus 12:29 And it came to pass at midnight that the LORD struck all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who [was] in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of livestock

Matthew 25:5 "But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
6 "And at midnight a cry was [heard:] 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!'

Jenna · Jul 31, 2012

I've never bothered to pin down specific clock hours to the Sabbath.

Maybe it is rather simplistic of me, but I just look to the sky and see if I can spot three stars. Since I like to stop my work a little bit in advance of the setting sun, it's no bother to me at all. I would much rather be playing with my children than doing physical labor anyway. hahaha.

I think that something that we need to keep in mind is that when the Shabbat ends, it doesn't mean that we have to hurry home and ignore one another. lol If you are assembled together and in the middle of a teaching, or someone has something of value to share, the clock shouldn't be what determines when you quit. (I know that is counter to how a lot of Christians actually operate though, if we are very honest.) I imagine that if I had such a strong teacher or the Torah and good news of Messiah, I would want to stay into the night to hear all that he had to say, also. There is nothing wrong with us getting together and studying the scriptures any and every day. We're just not supposed to forsake the Shabbat for keeping another day holy.

I have to say though, that God didn't give us a clock face for telling time. He gave us the lights of the sky for that, for telling times and seasons. If we go by that, instead of what the face of the clock says, everything will work out just fine.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 31, 2012

Jenna said:
I've never bothered to pin down specific clock hours to the Sabbath. Maybe it is rather simplistic of me, but I just look to the sky and see if I can spot three stars. Since I like to stop my work a little bit in advance of the setting sun, it's no bother to me at all. I would much rather be playing with my children than doing physical labor anyway. hahaha.

I have to say though, that God didn't give us a clock face for telling time. He gave us the lights of the sky for that, for telling times and seasons.
If we go by that, instead of what the face of the clock says, everything will work out just fine.

Excellent post

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

YoungLT] Genesis 1:14 And God saith, `Let luminaries be in the expanse of the heavens, to make a separation between the day and the night, then they have been for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years,
15 and they have been for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth:' and it is so.
16 And God maketh the two great luminaries, the great luminary for the rule of the day,
and the small luminary--and the stars--for the rule of the night;
17 and God giveth them in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth,
18 and to rule over day and over night, and to make a separation between the light and the darkness; and God seeth that [it is] good;
19 and there is an evening, and there is a morning--day fourth.

Standing Up · Jul 31, 2012

Evening (sunset) and morning (sunrise), a day.

Evening (sunset) and morning (sunrise), a second day.

Repeat.

ptomwebster · Jul 31, 2012

duordi said:
Sabbath and definition of a day.

...If the Sabbath started on Saturday noon and ended on Sunday noon as the Jews defined a day then the early Christians were following Gods command correctly celebrating the Sabbath on Sunday morning before noon which by Gods definition would still be Saturday, the Sabbath.

Your thoughts?

No, the day starts at sundown to the next sundown. The Lord's day begins in the evening at sundown. He comes as a thief in the night, when no one expect Him.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 1, 2012

Originally Posted by duordi Sabbath and definition of a day.

...If the Sabbath started on Saturday noon and ended on Sunday noon as the Jews defined a day then the early Christians were following Gods command correctly celebrating the Sabbath on Sunday morning before noon which by Gods definition would still be Saturday, the Sabbath.

Your thoughts?

ptomwebster said:
No, the day starts at sundown to the next sundown. The Lord's day begins in the evening at sundown.
He comes as a thief in the night, when no one expect Him.

Like in the story of the 10 vigins I mentioned in an ealier post

http://www.christianforums.com/t7632095/#post61087066

bbbbbbb · Aug 2, 2012

God's Word said:
duordi:

From what I understand, the Sabbath would begin at sundown or some time around 6:00 p.m. Even today, we use such terminology as "MIDnight", because 12:00 p.m. would be the MIDDLE of the night or the sixth out of twelve hours of night. Also, the Bible gives us other day/night breakdowns such as "watches" (3 hour periods) and, of course, hours. I'm pretty confident that if you study such things out, then you will find that the evening/night actually began somewhere around 6:00 p.m. and not at 12:00 p.m. as you stated. Anyhow, I do agree that, Biblically speaking, the evening comes first and then the day.

Things got confused when folks started living closer to the poles, especially the north pole. Right now I am in a latitude quite a bit farther north than my home and I am surprised that there is a lot more daylight here than at home.

This creates a big problem for Muslims, who celebrate Ramadan by fasting from sunrise to sunset. Ramadan changes every year because the Islamic calendar is lunar and not solar. The result is that some years fasting is not a big deal for those Muslims in high latitudes, but in other years it actually almost resembles real fasting. Oh my!

However, I digress. Sundown-to-sundown still results in 24 hours, but it can affect one's activities considerably.

bbbbbbb · Aug 2, 2012

God's Word said:
duordi:

From what I understand, the Sabbath would begin at sundown or some time around 6:00 p.m. Even today, we use such terminology as "MIDnight", because 12:00 p.m. would be the MIDDLE of the night or the sixth out of twelve hours of night. Also, the Bible gives us other day/night breakdowns such as "watches" (3 hour periods) and, of course, hours. I'm pretty confident that if you study such things out, then you will find that the evening/night actually began somewhere around 6:00 p.m. and not at 12:00 p.m. as you stated. Anyhow, I do agree that, Biblically speaking, the evening comes first and then the day.

Things got confused when folks started living closer to the poles, especially the north pole. Right now I am in a latitude quite a bit farther north than my home and I am surprised that there is a lot more daylight here than at home.

This creates a big problem for Muslims, who celebrate Ramadan by fasting from sunrise to sunset. Ramadan changes every year because the Islamic calendar is lunar and not solar. The result is that some years fasting is not a big deal for those Muslims in high latitudes, but in other years it actually almost resembles real fasting. Oh my!

However, I digress. Sundown-to-sundown still results in 24 hours, but it can affect one's activities considerably.

bbbbbbb · Aug 2, 2012

God's Word said:
duordi:

From what I understand, the Sabbath would begin at sundown or some time around 6:00 p.m. Even today, we use such terminology as "MIDnight", because 12:00 p.m. would be the MIDDLE of the night or the sixth out of twelve hours of night. Also, the Bible gives us other day/night breakdowns such as "watches" (3 hour periods) and, of course, hours. I'm pretty confident that if you study such things out, then you will find that the evening/night actually began somewhere around 6:00 p.m. and not at 12:00 p.m. as you stated. Anyhow, I do agree that, Biblically speaking, the evening comes first and then the day.

Things got confused when folks started living closer to the poles, especially the north pole. Right now I am in a latitude quite a bit farther north than my home and I am surprised that there is a lot more daylight here than at home.

This creates a big problem for Muslims, who celebrate Ramadan by fasting from sunrise to sunset. Ramadan changes every year because the Islamic calendar is lunar and not solar. The result is that some years fasting is not a big deal for those Muslims in high latitudes, but in other years it actually almost resembles real fasting. Oh my!

However, I digress. Sundown-to-sundown still results in 24 hours, but it can affect one's activities considerably.

bbbbbbb · Aug 2, 2012

God's Word said:
duordi:

From what I understand, the Sabbath would begin at sundown or some time around 6:00 p.m. Even today, we use such terminology as "MIDnight", because 12:00 p.m. would be the MIDDLE of the night or the sixth out of twelve hours of night. Also, the Bible gives us other day/night breakdowns such as "watches" (3 hour periods) and, of course, hours. I'm pretty confident that if you study such things out, then you will find that the evening/night actually began somewhere around 6:00 p.m. and not at 12:00 p.m. as you stated. Anyhow, I do agree that, Biblically speaking, the evening comes first and then the day.

Things got confused when folks started living closer to the poles, especially the north pole. Right now I am in a latitude quite a bit farther north than my home and I am surprised that there is a lot more daylight here than at home.

This creates a big problem for Muslims, who celebrate Ramadan by fasting from sunrise to sunset. Ramadan changes every year because the Islamic calendar is lunar and not solar. The result is that some years fasting is not a big deal for those Muslims in high latitudes, but in other years it actually almost resembles real fasting. Oh my!

However, I digress. Sundown-to-sundown still results in 24 hours, but it can affect one's activities considerably.

bbbbbbb · Aug 2, 2012

God's Word said:
duordi:

From what I understand, the Sabbath would begin at sundown or some time around 6:00 p.m. Even today, we use such terminology as "MIDnight", because 12:00 p.m. would be the MIDDLE of the night or the sixth out of twelve hours of night. Also, the Bible gives us other day/night breakdowns such as "watches" (3 hour periods) and, of course, hours. I'm pretty confident that if you study such things out, then you will find that the evening/night actually began somewhere around 6:00 p.m. and not at 12:00 p.m. as you stated. Anyhow, I do agree that, Biblically speaking, the evening comes first and then the day.

Things got confused when folks started living closer to the poles, especially the north pole. Right now I am in a latitude quite a bit farther north than my home and I am surprised that there is a lot more daylight here than at home.

This creates a big problem for Muslims, who celebrate Ramadan by fasting from sunrise to sunset. Ramadan changes every year because the Islamic calendar is lunar and not solar. The result is that some years fasting is not a big deal for those Muslims in high latitudes, but in other years it actually almost resembles real fasting. Oh my!

However, I digress. Sundown-to-sundown still results in 24 hours, but it can affect one's activities considerably.

Sabbath (12 noon to 12 noon)?

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