Pope Decreed Sunday Rest on June 3, 2012

Sorry--you want to do whatever you want on sabbath--go ahead. Christ did not carry 50 lb bag of grain for 50 miles on the sabbath--he was walking through a corn field, actually, and ate some corn on the spot, He didn't go out to the back 40 and load up the pickup with 100 lbs of corn. He did that which was needed in order to help someone, in order to feed someone (including Himself). He was a carpenter--he didn't go to the workshop and make a chair, he didn't even go fishing! The Jews did add a lot to the 4th commandment that God had not written with His own finger. As well as to the others.

mmksparbud said:

Sorry--you want to do whatever you want on sabbath--go ahead. Christ did not carry 50 lb bag of grain for 50 miles on the sabbath--he was walking through a corn field, actually, and ate some corn on the spot, He didn't go out to the back 40 and load up the pickup with 100 lbs of corn. He did that which was needed in order to help someone, in order to feed someone (including Himself). He was a carpenter--he didn't go to the workshop and make a chair, he didn't even go fishing! The Jews did add a lot to the 4th commandment that God had not written with His own finger. As well as to the others.

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You keep saying that the Jews added a lot to the Sabbath day. Well, what did they (the Jews) add to the word of God?

1. ban on gathering food on Sabbath? that's in the Scriptures.
2. ban on carrying a load on Sabbath? Again, it's in the Scriptures.

By the way, earlier, you stated that Christians should not do any secular activities on Sabbath day? Where is that written?

Stryder06 said:

God said that the 7th day is holy. Man says the 1st day is holy. Who should I listen to? It's really that simple.

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Except that's not what I've been arguing for, I'll say it again; All days are Holy, all work is Holy when done for the Glory of God.

You can hold off on the "Your prophet said..." jazz. Stick with the scripture.

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Is worship on a Sunday the Mark of the Beast?

What did God say? And I don't mean, what does man say God said, I'm saying, what did GOD say?

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One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
(Romans 14:5-9 ESV)

TruthWave7 said:

Do you ever take the time to read the text of the 10 Commandments? If you did you would know the answer. Note, the bold text that emphasis the prohibition against secular work. Sacred activities were never prohibited.

Exodus 20

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

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How do you explain the fact that Christ ALLOWED His disciples to gather food on Sabbath, although it was strictly forbidden by the LAW?

So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”

Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”

So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:24-30

The manna was sent before the 10 commandments were written--look it up. God had a special way He wanted the manna handled, and He wanted to emphasize the sabbath. Funny--you all do not like to have this manna mentioned as proof that the sabbath was given before the 10 commandments were written by God, but you want to drag it out to try and prove that Christ worked on sabbath--cute. The diciples did not gather food--they ate as they walked, just for themselves--they didn't gather to have enough for later that week, not even enough for later that day.

God did not sanctify all days, only the 7th--God did not write with His own finger to remember to keep all days holy and do no work on all days---that would have been one bunch of lazy, do nothing creeps that would have starved to death. He asked for 1 day a week to come and meet on a one to one basis with each--kinda sweet, don't you think??

mmksparbud said:

The manna was sent before the 10 commandments were written--look it up. God had a special way He wanted the manna handled, and He wanted to emphasize the sabbath.

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The Holy-Sabbath Law was given to Israel before Mount Sinai...

Funny--you all do not like to have this manna mentioned as proof that the sabbath was given before the 10 commandments were written by God, but you want to drag it out to try and prove that Christ worked on sabbath--cute.

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The Sabbath was given to the children of Israel alive during the exodus from Egypt, and not to their fore-fathers (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc).

You know what I find strange? You have openly admitted to working on a Sabbath, yet you sit here and criticise those who do the same? Is that not hypocrisy?

The diciples did not gather food--they ate as they walked, just for themselves--they didn't gather to have enough for later that week, not even enough for later that day.

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Yeah, they did gather food. Picking up a few grains to eat from the field is gathering, incase you did not know. The disciples, indeed broke the Law by gathering food on a Sabbath. However, because they belong to Christ, they were blameless, because Christ is LORD of the Sabbath.

mmksparbud said:

God did not sanctify all days, only the 7th--God did not write with His own finger to remember to keep all days holy and do no work on all days---that would have been one bunch of lazy, do nothing creeps that would have starved to death.

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I am fully convinced that all days are holy and esteem them as such. God didn't write the ten commandments for me. You also seem to be saying that because holiness is tied to Sabbath that makes doing no work Holy, this is not how I see it, or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?

He asked for 1 day a week to come and meet on a one to one basis with each--kinda sweet, don't you think??

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So you don't spend any other time one-to-one with God? I try to spend at least 2 hours a day (1 at night and 1 in the morning) communing with God, sure this makes for less time than a Sabbath, the rest is made up for in the time I spend in community seeking God.

Of course I have other one on one time with God--I choose to do what the ten commandments say--my choice, my right. You do what you want. When God wrote about the sabbath--with His finger, on stone,. it does not say anything about gathering food--it says don't work. I know gathering an ear of corn of the stalk was considered work by the Mosiac--Christ did not follow that--He used common sense. Watch who you call a hypocrite--you know the old saying--point a finger at someone and there are 3 fingers pointing back at you.
I Jewish friend of mine says she has to tear the toilet paper into squares before the sabbath so as to not tear it on the sabbath---Ok--whatever! Not mentioned in the 10 commandments! Neither is covering the mirrors so you do not see yourself and a whole boat load of other stuff they can't do---that's their choice. Heck, getting out of bed is hard work for me!! I don't criticize anyone for their life---well, I do when they go against the law (civil)--and or common sense!!

mmksparbud said:

Of course I have other one on one time with God--I choose to do what the ten commandments say--my choice, my right. You do what you want.

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Yes, I respect your choice and your right, where I draw the line is where you do not afford me the same and quite frankly the Anti-Sunday/Anti-Pope crusade that SDAs do on this forum is absurd and imo denigrating towards people who I consider my brothers and sisters in Christ, the worst of it is the belief that is in line with your prophet that Worshipping on a Sunday is the Mark of the Beast, that not just condemns Catholics but pretty much everyone outside your sect.

mmksparbud said:

Of course I have other one on one time with God--I choose to do what the ten commandments say--my choice, my right. You do what you want. When God wrote about the sabbath--with His finger, on stone,. it does not say anything about gathering food--it says don't work. I know gathering an ear of corn of the stalk was considered work by the Mosiac--Christ did not follow that--He used common sense. Watch who you call a hypocrite--you know the old saying--point a finger at someone and there are 3 fingers pointing back at you.
I Jewish friend of mine says she has to tear the toilet paper into squares before the sabbath so as to not tear it on the sabbath---Ok--whatever! Not mentioned in the 10 commandments! Neither is covering the mirrors so you do not see yourself and a whole boat load of other stuff they can't do---that's their choice. Heck, getting out of bed is hard work for me!! I don't criticize anyone for their life---well, I do when they go against the law (civil)--and or common sense!!

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So, what exactly is considered as "work" by God [since, apparently gathering food or carrying a bed is not classified as "work"]?

By the way, I did not call you a hypocrite, I simply asked why you look down upon those who work on a saturday, when you yourself do the same? You work on a Sabbath, but yet, criticize those who do the same?

I, nor my church, is demanding that saturday be a day of rest--by law--for anybody. When that happens, then it will be the mark of the beast or God's 4th commandment.
I've got many friends that are catholic, my oldest brother is married to one--and other sunday keeping denominations. Some have been my friends for over 30 years.
There will be many saved who have never heard the name of Jesus--but they heard His voice, and they did what He asked of them. His sheep know His voice--"other sheep have I which are not of this fold."----put the gun away--not time yet!!

mmksparbud said:

I, nor my church, is demanding that saturday be a day of rest

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Neither is any other Church.

--by law--for anybody. When that happens, then it will be the mark of the beast or God's 4th commandment.

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Yes Blue laws are silly, for the most part they are not enforced, why don't you petition for their removal on the grounds of separation of Church and State? If I was in America I'd quite happily stand beside you and declare that those laws are wrong. Saying it is the mark of the Beast is going too far though.

progmonk said:

Neither is any other Church.


Yes Blue laws are silly, for the most part they are not enforced, why don't you petition for their removal on the grounds of separation of Church and State? If I was in America I'd quite happily stand beside you and declare that those laws are wrong. Saying it is the mark of the Beast is going too far though.

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Well--nobody asks how we have arrived at this conclusion--just call us crazy for such a view--but I've not seen where the reasons for that believe have been given. And though most of the blue laws are not enforced--many are, esp in small towns--already mentioned that--and that last month a law passed in Harveyville for Sunday to be held as the day of rest. Look it up. We didn't just go eeny, meeny, minee, moe--and throw a dart. The bible has a long list of specifications that this political/religious power has to meet. We are not anti-catholic, we are talking about a political/religious power. The beasts in Daniel and Revelation all refer to governments---Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome. BTW--Luther also said the same thing, and he was never a sabbath keeper.

Lion King said:

You keep saying that the Jews added a lot to the Sabbath day. Well, what did they (the Jews) add to the word of God?

1. ban on gathering food on Sabbath? that's in the Scriptures.
2. ban on carrying a load on Sabbath? Again, it's in the Scriptures.

By the way, earlier, you stated that Christians should not do any secular activities on Sabbath day? Where is that written?

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The commandment says to keep the day holy, so the Jews came up with about 150 ways (traditions) of keeping the day holy. This led them to a legalistic observance that destroyed the spirit of the commandment. They wern't worshipping the Lord on the sabbath, they were worshipping the sabbath itself void of any communion with the Lord.

sabbath days journey, not carrying anything in their pockets, the prohibition of healing on the sabbath, to name a few.

That is why Jesus told them that the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. The pharasitical view was that man was made to worship the sabbath.

Lion King said:

So, what exactly is considered as "work" by God [since, apparently gathering food or carrying a bed is not classified as "work"]?

By the way, I did not call you a hypocrite, I simply asked why you look down upon those who work on a saturday, when you yourself do the same? You work on a Sabbath, but yet, criticize those who do the same?

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When I worked, I gave what I earned to God. My supervisor new this, and she and my coworkers got together and gave me my sabbaths off, and I worked every Sunday--that made the sunday keepers happy and my pocketbook a wee bit fuller. I did kidney dialysis and that is a life saving treatment that has to be done--missing one can kill them if they're potassiums are high and/or they are severly fluid overloaded. Nursing procedures must continue for people--I'm sure you wouldn't want someone you love to suffer or die so I could keep my sabbath--Jesus healed, all we can do is treat.---I do not criticize even 7th day keepers for working on the sabbath if they so choose--that's between them and God, and esp for newcomers, it can take a while to sort things out. I have not been called to criticize others choices--I'm just explaining mine. Most SDA's are in the medical field, it seems.

Work is work--got a job?--that's work!--it not rocket science to figure out! I believe the actual word for work meant more along the lines of doing your own things--like I love to sew and other needle work--I don't do it. It was hard at first when I came back as knitting is soothing to me, but as I found out, even God stopped "creating."--for those who do not work outside the home, it's getting the house and laundry and cooking done before sabbath. We do minor cooking--it's not exactly going out back and hauling wood for the fire--turning a switch isn't much work! We have directive that says do not work (or do things that you regularly do)--it's just a time to spend with God, in prayer, worship, reading about Him, discussing Him and slo forth--it's only day a week that He's asking for and it's for our own good. This automatically keeps you from becoming a workaholic 7 days a week-I was a work horse all my life till I was forced into disability--If it had not been for my sabbaths off--I would have been on disability long before this. I used to have 100 hr work weeks!---Not good for you, but you can't let somebody die 'cause you're tired!! I worked the hospitals, not the out patient clinics and emergencies came in at all hours--if you were half dead and needed to be dialyized, you would not care about anybodies sabbath!! Most of us want to keep on breathing no matter how difficult life may be.

progmonk said:

Yes, I respect your choice and your right, where I draw the line is where you do not afford me the same and quite frankly the Anti-Sunday/Anti-Pope crusade that SDAs do on this forum is absurd and imo denigrating towards people who I consider my brothers and sisters in Christ, the worst of it is the belief that is in line with your prophet that Worshipping on a Sunday is the Mark of the Beast, that not just condemns Catholics but pretty much everyone outside your sect.

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No one at this time has the mark of the beast. We as Adventist, believe like the Reformers of the Protestant Reformation such as Martin Luther, John Husk, John Wesley, William Tyndale and John Calvin that the Papacy is little horn of Daniel 7 and the Antichrist power of Revelation 13. We do not hold to the futuristic view of bible prophecy which was used by the Jesuit Francisco Ribera to screen the antichrist from being identified as the antichrist by moving the book of revelation into a future 7 year period.

Because we believe this, we expect the beast (antichrist) to work with the second beast of Rev 13 and the UN to pass an international sunday law to enforce worship on that day. When this is done then those who comply would be accepting the mark of the beast.

Here are 2 quotes that breathe light to this:

"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (from Saturday to Sunday) was her act. It could not have been otherwise, as none in those days would have dreamed of doing anything in matters spiritual and religious without her, and the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." Letter from H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons.

"Sunday is our mark of authority..... The church is above the Bible, and this transference of sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

The mark of the beast is the mark of the beast. If who we believe to be the beast, says that institution of Sunday as a day of worship in place of the Sabbath is a mark of her authority then that right there is the beast stating what it's mark is.

TruthWave7 said:

Jesus and the disciples were not farming, they had no food and simply stripped some kernels of wheat so they wouldn't faint from hunger.

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If I am not mistaken, That is called GATHERING of food for personal consumption. Is was forbidden on a Sabbath under the Old Covenant (Exodus 16:27–30), thus the reason Jesus Christ did not deny the accusation, but said this:

Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Matthew 12:5

The disciples broke the Law [just as the priests did, by WORKING on every Sabbath], but were blameless, because they belong to Christ.

This was not unlawful to do, as confirmed by the words of Jesus in Matthew 12:3 "But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;"

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Uhmm, I remember Christ clearly saying what David did was UNLAWFUL according to the LAW.

But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? Matthew 12:3-4

David committed a serious violation against the LAW of God, for he and his companions not only entered the Tabernacle of God (and if this entry was into the Holy Place, even that entry was illegal), but they also unlawfully ate the consecrated bread which belonged only to the tribe of Levi (Aaron and his sons were the only ones permitted to eat the hallowed bread by the LORD) on the Holy-Sabbath day itself. However, David was found blameless before God, even though he clearly broke the Sabbath, for Christ is LORD of the Sabbath. All who belong to Him, can work just as He and His Father work on Sabbath.

So the priest gave him hallowed bread: for there was no bread there but the shewbread, that was taken from before the LORD, to put hot bread in the day when it was taken away. 1 Samuel 21:6

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And you shall put pure frankincense on each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, an offering made by fire to the Lord. Every Sabbath he shall set it in order before the Lord continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant. And it shall be for Aaron and his sons, and they shall eat it in a holy place; for it is most holy to him from the offerings of the Lord made by fire, by a perpetual statute.” Leviticus 24:7-9