Orthodoxy ix cooler than Catholicism.

gurneyhalleck1 said:

Honestly I am just overwhelmed as to how difficult Orthodoxy is and a bit freaked-out about it.

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Just know that you're not expected to do everything perfectly. Orthopraxis isn't about getting the task right. The task is just what helps you get closer to the goal, which is union with God. And union with God is never finished because God is infinite and we are finite.

So don't get caught up in the tasks and whether you can do it. Fast as best you can. If you break the fast, confess it and move on. If you blow the fast, there will be another one in a few weeks or months. Pray as best as you can, etc.

Abba Lot went to see Abba Joseph and said to him, `Abba, as far as I can I say my little office, I fast a little, I pray and meditate, I live in peace and as far as I can, I purify my thoughts. What else can I do?" Then the old man stood up and stretched his hands towards heaven. His fingers became like ten lamps of fire and he said to him, "If you will, you can become all flame!"

A young man once asked a monk, “What do you do in the monastery all day?” The monk replied, “We fall down, and get up, and fall down and get up, and fall down and get up again.”

M.

Monica said:

Just know that you're not expected to do everything perfectly. Orthopraxis isn't about getting the task right. The task is just what helps you get closer to the goal, which is union with God. And union with God is never finished because God is infinite and we are finite.

So don't get caught up in the tasks and whether you can do it. Fast as best you can. If you break the fast, confess it and move on. If you blow the fast, there will be another one in a few weeks or months. Pray as best as you can, etc.

Abba Lot went to see Abba Joseph and said to him, `Abba, as far as I can I say my little office, I fast a little, I pray and meditate, I live in peace and as far as I can, I purify my thoughts. What else can I do?" Then the old man stood up and stretched his hands towards heaven. His fingers became like ten lamps of fire and he said to him, "If you will, you can become all flame!"

A young man once asked a monk, “What do you do in the monastery all day?” The monk replied, “We fall down, and get up, and fall down and get up, and fall down and get up again.”

M.

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This. And remember that as cliched as it sometimes sounds, Orthodoxy is a marathon, not a sprint. We start slowly and then improve, and we fall over a lot. And then we get back up again. Don't be fooled by internet Orthodoxy or what you see of people at Church - during the week we struggle a lot and it's this struggle that really *is* Orthodoxy. You'll get there by God's grace - and part of the reason for the struggle is learning that it IS only by God's grace that we make progress. One of the major virtues in Orthodoxy is humility...and we learn that practically! You'll be fine, don't stress so much about having to be perfect. We're not, but we are trying.

gurneyhalleck1 said:

Honestly I am just overwhelmed as to how difficult Orthodoxy is and a bit freaked-out about it. I have tried going back to Catholicism, but it just isn't the same and, after Divine Liturgy, the Novus Ordo Mass is a let-down (and that's putting it QUITE mildly!).....

I'm just not the anti-Catholic type. I'm disappointed with and disagree with many facets of the Catholic Church, but have great appreciation, thanks, and admiration for other aspects. I know a lot of Orthodox who are converts from Catholicism and are wet around the ears ready to slam, rip, criticize, and mock their former church that they just belonged to six months ago or a year ago. That's just not me. I have found myself in anti-Catholic conversations with Orthodox, chimed in and agreed and said my own nasty things about them, then walked away sad that I did. Most distasteful.

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I think you have the right mindset.

My dad always tells a story about a man in a small town that had a new neighbor move in on his left. The man asked him, "So, what are the people like in this town?"

The man asked him what they'd been like where he was.

He said, "Oh, they were horrible, people. I hated living near them. I couldn't wait to get away from them."

Sadly, the man replied, "I think you'll find them pretty much the same here."

A week later, had a new neighbor move in on his right. The man asked him, "So, what are the people like in this town?"

The man asked him what they'd been like where he was.

He said, "Oh, they were such nice people. Very kind. I'm glad to be here, but I'll always miss them a little bit."

Smiling, the man replied, "I think you'll find them the same here."

It is true that living an Orthodox life can seem daunting at first. It is a LOT of hard work and the work continues every moment of every day. And just when you think you have it all down, you will fall flat on your face and remember that you can't do any of it without God's help. But as Jesus said, the burden is light and the yoke easy. The Lord provides in abundance to His laborers. Doing His work is liberating, not oppressing. Give it time and you will see.

Gwendolyn said:

I actually think that Thomism is a fascinating philosophy. Catholic Moral theology is really, really cool. It was my favourite theology subject in university. It showed me that Christianity can indeed be quite logical in how it arrives at its teachings. Catholicism reveals teaching to be not "God said so, so it is," but "God made it so, and this is why". It was pretty mind-opening for me.

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(I know the post I'm replying to is old, but this thread has been revived and I just saw it.)

While Thomism is certainly cool and philosophically interesting--the man was brilliant, I think that's where it ends. In fact, I also tend to think it as theologically harmful. He borrowed quite a bit from Maimonides which leaned on the methods of the Jewish Talmudic tradition coupled with Aristotelian logic. I view Thomas' work as one of the most significant early pieces of scholasticism which paved the way for later scholasticism. To make myself clear here, I think his work is theologically harmful because I think scholasticism itself is theologically harmful. His content isn't awful but I don't think that philosophical method can or should be applied to theology. The ancient apophatic tradition might be rather limiting, but I think that's more a reflection on us humans and our fallen relationship with God rather than any fault of the tradition itself.

If only Skype was available so that there'd be a more personal level to things which cannot be communicated via verbal online dialouge alone....

Macarius said:

Honestly, most the Roman Catholics I've known have been pretty cool people.

I will say that a "vestment war" between us (wherein we compare our various vestments) probably comes out with the EO ahead right now.

But in total? I dunno. Russians and Greeks vs. Latinos and Italians... (to name a few) - those are some pretty amazing cultures.

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that made me think of this:
LiveLeak.com - CATHOLIC HEAVEN IS BEST .....
and now i can't help wondering what Orthodox heaven would be like

i've only read the first page so far but i will just say that we're cleaning out the house to get ready for moving, and i found an old icon of St. Seraphim of Sarov that belonged to my mother. she got it years ago when she lived alone in the woods. i thought it was pretty cool how she could veneratwe an Orthodox saint like that, despite her not being the slightest bit Orthodox.

Julina said:

that made me think of this:
LiveLeak.com - CATHOLIC HEAVEN IS BEST .....
and now i can't help wondering what Orthodox heaven would be like

i've only read the first page so far but i will just say that we're cleaning out the house to get ready for moving, and i found an old icon of St. Seraphim of Sarov that belonged to my mother. she got it years ago when she lived alone in the woods. i thought it was pretty cool how she could veneratwe an Orthodox saint like that, despite her not being the slightest bit Orthodox.

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Long time no see.

nvm

Joseph Hazen said:

I've had Roman Catholics tell me they would feel perfectly comfortable with venerating not only St. Seraphim of Sarov, but other Orthodox saints such as St. Alexis of Wilkes-Barre, St. Anthony the Roman, St. Macarius the Roman, St. Mark of Ephesus or even St. Peter the Aleut.

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It is hard to see how a Roman Catholic could venerate St. Mark of Ephesus, since he was the one who refused to go along with the Council of Florence and it was said Council which briefly brought about a reconciliation between the RCC and the EOC in the 1400's.

Basil the Great said:

It is hard to see how a Roman Catholic could venerate St. Mark of Ephesus, since he was the one who refused to go along with the Council of Florence and it was said Council which briefly brought about a reconciliation between the RCC and the EOC in the 1400's.

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I didn't say I agreed with it, found it logical, or even smart, I'm just reporting what I was told.

The other Saints I listed are likewise awkward for Romans. St. Alexis of Wilkes-Barre led a rather large contingent out of Eastern Roman Catholicism and into Orthodoxy. Ss. Anthony and Macarius the Romans, at different times near the Renaissance age left the Roman Catholic Church and became Orthodox because they didn't believe Rome held to the faith of the apostles. St. Peter the Aleut was tortured to death by Roman Catholic Franciscan missionaries in California. *shrug*

Joseph Hazen said:

I didn't say I agreed with it, found it logical, or even smart, I'm just reporting what I was told.

The other Saints I listed are likewise awkward for Romans. St. Alexis of Wilkes-Barre led a rather large contingent out of Eastern Roman Catholicism and into Orthodoxy. Ss. Anthony and Macarius the Romans, at different times near the Renaissance age left the Roman Catholic Church and became Orthodox because they didn't believe Rome held to the faith of the apostles. St. Peter the Aleut was tortured to death by Roman Catholic Franciscan missionaries in California. *shrug*

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I somehow do not think St. Francis would have been pleased with the use of torture by those who followed him.

Basil the Great said:

I somehow do not think St. Francis would have been pleased with the use of torture by those who followed him.

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Indeed not, but can you find an example anywhere of a martyr who was killed by Roman Catholic clergy that the RCC actually considers a martyr?

InnerPhyre said:

Indeed not, but can you find an example anywhere of a martyr who was killed by Roman Catholic clergy that the RCC actually considers a martyr?

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St. Joan of Arc, perhaps, though her executioner was not a clergyman.

gurneyhalleck1 said:

It's interesting how people's issues are different and priorities, their worries and reasonings, in conversion out of Catholicism.

For my wife and I, NFP (natural family planning) was the first time we had any type of crisis in our marriage (we have a WONDERFUL marriage) and it made us start scratching our chins....hmmmm. Then we started questioning infallibility and papal stuff. Filioque is something I can live with.

But honestly we stuck with Catholicism for quite a while. What truly sickened and bothered me was the Novus Ordo liturgy. That Mass is such a mess in my area that I just couldn't stand it anymore. I've gone to Mass probably 6 times in the last year as I've been visiting the Orthodox Church. And when I saw the Mass after having been in the Divine Liturgy, my head spun off my head in frustration and jaw-hanging open sadness.

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I assume you've looked into Byzantine/Eastern Catholicism? If so what were your thoughts?

Interesting...

Is Orthodoxy cool? Ask this guy...