dollarsbill
Well-Known Member
Then there would be no need for the word 'eternal'. They would just be dead.The punishment is eternal. They are dead forever. The 2nd Death from which there is no resurrection.
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Then there would be no need for the word 'eternal'. They would just be dead.The punishment is eternal. They are dead forever. The 2nd Death from which there is no resurrection.
Then there would be no need for the word 'eternal'. They would just be dead.
Death does not mean 'cease to exist'.No. That's why the Bible mentions several kinds of death.
Death does not mean 'cease to exist'.
Actually God said it.So you are saying that the devil and all the wicked angels and all the wicked from Cain down throught time, unto the last man just before the 2nd Advent will live forever?
Actually God said it.
Revelation 20:10 (NASB)...
Enough of the copy and paste. How about verse for verse?
When you can discuss a verse at a time let me know.
You have by dumping SDA doctrine, not Biblical doctrine.I have, but it was refused. I can do nothing more than present what the scriptures say.
Let us take a look at what lies the serpent [satan, devil, dragon] teaches for a moment:
"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" [Genesis 3:1]
"And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:" [Genesis 3:2]
"But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." [Genesis 3:3]
"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" [Genesis 3:4]
"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." [Genesis 3:5]
Someone may then ask, "What is so harmful about all of that?" Let us see:
In Genesis 3:1,4,5 we have the root of every false teaching and doctrine being promoted today:
[1] "Yea, hath God said..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which works in [so-called] "higher criticism", in "sophistry" against the plain WORD of GOD, and set up to cause doubt and unbelief [unfaith] in it, such as the theologies/philosophies of "evolution", "sorceries and philosophies of men", "that GOD is the one who lies, while the serpent tells the truth", "worship of nature/animals", "worship of beast/man/groves", "humanism", "that no one has to keep the LAW of GOD [HIS TEN COMMANDMENTS], that we do not have to really do as GOD asks/commands", etc.
[2] "Ye shall not surely die..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which teaches that those who die, do not really die, but that they somehow, in some way exist eternally and consciously in death. Reincarnation, Multiple Lives, Evolution of consciousness [achieving a 'higher state'], "eternal tormented sufferers - whether physically, mentally, spiritually, or other", "Limbo", "Purgatory", "an unbeatific place", "'ghosts of men' to haunt", "prayers for the 'dead'", "conjuring", "attempted communication with the 'dead'", "necromancy", "gaia hypothesis [soul recycling]", "men becoming gods", "spiritualism", "immortal soul theology", etc.
[3] "...God doth know..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which teaches that "GOD is withholding/hiding something good from us - TRUTH, etc. at our expense", "that GOD is unjust/unfair/covetous/unfaithful", "that GOD is a cruel hoarding tyrant", etc.
[4] "...your eyes shall be opened..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as "mysticism", "various eastern religions/philosophies", "gurdjieffian, the fourth way", "jungian psychology", "transcendentalism", "krishnamurti", "trying to achieve godhood through self-awareness or the omega point [P. Teilhard de Chardin]", "awakening", "meditation upon centering", "centering prayer", "enlightenment", "that mankind knows as much about the future as GOD does [Open Theism]", etc.
[5] "...ye shall be as gods..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as the "new age movement", "being equal to GOD" [bringing GOD downward or man upward, elevating to equality with Deity], "seeking to become GOD; the very thing satan himself desires", "that you are your own master", "works salvation theology [you save yourself, by your own right hand]", "being holy apart from GOD [just as satan intimated in Heaven, self-righteousness]", "do what thou wilt [A. Crowley]", etc.
[6] "...knowing good and evil..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as "Paganism" "Kabbalism", "dabbling in dual sided theologies [that GOD is comprised of good/evil, light/darkness, yin/yang]", "Gnosticism [that you can somehow "know" [their def.] something]", "that to fall/sin was to be uplifted/enlightened [Joseph Smith; Mormonism]" etc.
[JESUS says of Satan]: "...He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth [see article TRUTH], because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." [John 8:44;p]
["...for sin is the transgression of the law."; 1 John 3:4;p]
["...for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin."; Romans 14:23;p]
["...all unrighteousness is sin..."; 1 John 5:17;p]
["...to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin."; James 4:17;p]
Tell us plainly, are you promoting SDA doctrine?I have, but it was refused. I can do nothing more than present what the scriptures say.
Let us take a look at what lies the serpent [satan, devil, dragon] teaches for a moment:
"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" [Genesis 3:1]
"And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:" [Genesis 3:2]
"But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." [Genesis 3:3]
"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" [Genesis 3:4]
"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." [Genesis 3:5]
Someone may then ask, "What is so harmful about all of that?" Let us see:
In Genesis 3:1,4,5 we have the root of every false teaching and doctrine being promoted today:
[1] "Yea, hath God said..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which works in [so-called] "higher criticism", in "sophistry" against the plain WORD of GOD, and set up to cause doubt and unbelief [unfaith] in it, such as the theologies/philosophies of "evolution", "sorceries and philosophies of men", "that GOD is the one who lies, while the serpent tells the truth", "worship of nature/animals", "worship of beast/man/groves", "humanism", "that no one has to keep the LAW of GOD [HIS TEN COMMANDMENTS], that we do not have to really do as GOD asks/commands", etc.
[2] "Ye shall not surely die..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which teaches that those who die, do not really die, but that they somehow, in some way exist eternally and consciously in death. Reincarnation, Multiple Lives, Evolution of consciousness [achieving a 'higher state'], "eternal tormented sufferers - whether physically, mentally, spiritually, or other", "Limbo", "Purgatory", "an unbeatific place", "'ghosts of men' to haunt", "prayers for the 'dead'", "conjuring", "attempted communication with the 'dead'", "necromancy", "gaia hypothesis [soul recycling]", "men becoming gods", "spiritualism", "immortal soul theology", etc.
[3] "...God doth know..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which teaches that "GOD is withholding/hiding something good from us - TRUTH, etc. at our expense", "that GOD is unjust/unfair/covetous/unfaithful", "that GOD is a cruel hoarding tyrant", etc.
[4] "...your eyes shall be opened..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as "mysticism", "various eastern religions/philosophies", "gurdjieffian, the fourth way", "jungian psychology", "transcendentalism", "krishnamurti", "trying to achieve godhood through self-awareness or the omega point [P. Teilhard de Chardin]", "awakening", "meditation upon centering", "centering prayer", "enlightenment", "that mankind knows as much about the future as GOD does [Open Theism]", etc.
[5] "...ye shall be as gods..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as the "new age movement", "being equal to GOD" [bringing GOD downward or man upward, elevating to equality with Deity], "seeking to become GOD; the very thing satan himself desires", "that you are your own master", "works salvation theology [you save yourself, by your own right hand]", "being holy apart from GOD [just as satan intimated in Heaven, self-righteousness]", "do what thou wilt [A. Crowley]", etc.
[6] "...knowing good and evil..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as "Paganism" "Kabbalism", "dabbling in dual sided theologies [that GOD is comprised of good/evil, light/darkness, yin/yang]", "Gnosticism [that you can somehow "know" [their def.] something]", "that to fall/sin was to be uplifted/enlightened [Joseph Smith; Mormonism]" etc.
[JESUS says of Satan]: "...He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth [see article TRUTH], because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." [John 8:44;p]
["...for sin is the transgression of the law."; 1 John 3:4;p]
["...for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin."; Romans 14:23;p]
["...all unrighteousness is sin..."; 1 John 5:17;p]
["...to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin."; James 4:17;p]
You have by dumping SDA doctrine, not Biblical doctrine.
Tell us plainly, are you promoting SDA doctrine?
Why can't you answer for yourself???I was not always Seventh Day Adventist. I go by the Word of God, as may be seen from the studies put together and so posted. please read them.
You also might be interested in Pastor vs Pastor:
Doctrines That Divide: The Afterlife (Part 5 of Series)- (Doug Batchelor) AmazingFacts © - YouTube
If no, then these will answer most of the textual questions:
The Truth About Death
Heaven Hell | Heaven or Hell | Heaven to Hell'
Or see Bible Doctrines section.
Why can't you answer for yourself???
Posting SDA links are not "thus saith the Lord".I go by a "thus saith the Lord" and "it is written". I have answered, repeatedly and thoroughly from my own personal studies. There is quite a bit more, and even a great many more resources.
That sounds like something Satan would say. No sin, no need for salvation.Sin, Gehenna, and death do not exist at all with God, for they are effects, not substances.