Why have Liberal Westerners Turned Their Backs On The Jewish State?

Why should we blindly support Israel?

Dale said:

Daniel25 in post #2:
"This guy has been smoking too much rand. Israel is pretty much the worst american ally in the history of our nation. They make pakistan seem useful."

Really? Are you saying that Israel is a worse ally than South Vietnam?

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Yes. South Vietnam, at least, fought alongside us against the Red Menace. Israel, on the other hand, has never done anything significant that has been of value to us. The enemies we and Israel have in common are our enemies solely becase of our alliance with Israel.

Dale said:

I assume that you don't realize that Israeli intelligence has been extremely useful to the U.S. They provided a great deal of help after the September 11 attacks, for instance.

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Prove it. This is a claim that is often made by Israel supporters but has never been proven, and never can be, nor can it be disproven, due to the inherent secrecy of such things.

Maybe you could explain how an ally that requires ZERO American troops to defend it is our worst ally. That sounds like out best ally to me.

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It's an ally that has made pretty much everyone else in the region hate us. Including oil-rich countries whom we'd actually have a rational self-interest in being friendly with.

We have troops in Germany, in Japan, in South Korea, and numerous other places in the world. Israel has been through several wars and been attacked many times since 1948. They've never needed one platoon of Marines or one platoon of Green Berets to help them through it. Doesn't that count for something?

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That's not a benefit, that's an absence of a particular kind of cost. When some thing is useless, coming cheap is hardly a redeeming feature.

Sweet Tea said:

Why should we blindly support Israel?

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Because God would smack us if we didn't, presumably. Just like he's always smacked everyone else who doesn't.... no, wait...

PHenry42 said:

Yes. South Vietnam, at least, fought alongside us against the Red Menace. Israel, on the other hand, has never done anything significant that has been of value to us. The enemies we and Israel have in common are our enemies solely becase of our alliance with Israel.

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It wasn't South Vietnam that attacked the USS Liberty either.

True dat. Though the loss of one warship is small fries compared to the massive geopolitical liability Israel is to us. Imagine no 9/11, no Teheran embassy hostage crisis, no '73 Oil Crisis...

While I don't believe in blindly supporting any country, I do notice that among many liberals there is a strain of anti-semitism that has nothing to do with the nation, but the people. The most vocal supporters of the left that I know in person think that the Jews control wall street. This is not a bash, just something I could never understand.

Dale said:

Moslem terrorists have never shown any trace of logic since this dispute began. They have always been willing to kill their own people just to have the chance to complain about it.


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They will not risk one of the three holy places of their faith as that will lead them not to gain paradise.

Just as Jews would not blow up the western wall even if it was crowded with radical Muslims and the Catholics will not burn down the Vatican even though it were filled to the brim with homosexual abortion doctors.

They would simply use conventional means to rid the problem.

Rion said:

While I don't believe in blindly supporting any country, I do notice that among many liberals there is a strain of anti-semitism that has nothing to do with the nation, but the people. The most vocal supporters of the left that I know in person think that the Jews control wall street. This is not a bash, just something I could never understand.

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And that's antisemitic how? It's simply a belief that a particular group has a particular kind of power. How is that racist?

Is it also racist to suggest that white people rule the world? They pretty much do.

Rion said:

While I don't believe in blindly supporting any country, I do notice that among many liberals there is a strain of anti-semitism that has nothing to do with the nation, but the people. The most vocal supporters of the left that I know in person think that the Jews control wall street. This is not a bash, just something I could never understand.

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How the heck is that anti-semitic? Possibly a paranoid conspiracy theory maybe? But a prejudicial hatred of Semitic peoples? Certainly not.

Maybe I don't think it is a stretch to believe "the Jews crashed the economy to get more money" is both a conspiracy theory and anti-semitic. If you two do, well, I am sorry for you.

Maybe I don't think it is a stretch to believe "the Jews crashed the economy to get more money" is both a conspiracy theory and anti-semitic. If you two do, well, I am sorry for you.

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Broad generalizations like that can always be problematic. Generalizations like "The Jews crashed the economy" Or "The Palestinians are terrorists." It's possible that some Palestinians are terrorists and that some Jews were invovled with the crash of the economy but to draw attention to their ethnicity in that regard is a little suspect. So I think I agree with you here. Often people try to draw that attention in order imply group guilt or to imply that their ethnicity was the deciding factor in their negative actions.

Rion said:

Maybe I don't think it is a stretch to believe "the Jews crashed the economy to get more money" is both a conspiracy theory and anti-semitic. If you two do, well, I am sorry for you.

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Now you're moving the goalposts. "The Jews control Wall Street" is not logically equivalent with "The Jews crashed the economy to get more money", and if you treat the two as equivalent, you are guilty of libel against those who you paint as antisemitic.

No, not really. I've heard both from the same people, but hey I'm sure you don't believe either, right?