Protestants, Sins, and Salvation, Oh My!

his-girl · Jan 22, 2003

Thank you geocajun,

I was raised in a rural community in the south; I didn't attend school with or know any Catholics when I was growing up so I wasn't quite sure what the differences in our religions were except what I've heard in passing.  I'm not one to assume, thought I'd ask instead.

ZooMom · Jan 22, 2003

Originally posted by his-girl
I'm going to say something that may not be received too well here, but I'm going to say it anyway. 

I've been a member of this board for a couple of days.  I came across it when running a search on google.  I was really excited when I first registered and started looking around.  There were so many people here, the graphics are great, etc. 

But you know what?  This is a hostile board.  Whenever I post, I'm usually met with a less than a loving reply.  Earlier today I even told my husband that I thought this was a secular board acting as though it was a Christian board. 

I mean zoomom, I ask a question and you immediately come back with a question.  What is up with this place......???  Why is everyone so on edge?

I know, and again I apologize for sounding less than hospitable. :sorry:

It's completely knee-jerk, because we are so used to seeing a question like that laid out as bait. You know the old saying...once bitten, twice shy...well we've been bitten more than once.

But it's still a poor excuse. Please accept my apologies. The Peace of our Lord be with you.

his-girl · Jan 22, 2003

Originally posted by ZooMom
I know, and again I apologize for sounding less than hospitable.

It's completely knee-jerk, because we are so used to seeing a question like that laid out as bait. You know the old saying...once bitten, twice shy...well we've been bitten more than once.

But it's still a poor excuse. Please accept my apologies. The Peace of our Lord be with you.

Apology accepted

I've noticed there seems to be alot of fighting going on between people, so I can understand why you thought I was 'setting' ya up....but I'm not.  I went out on the internet and was reading some stuff today on the Catholic Religion so I wouldn't offend anyone and now I'm more confused then ever.LOL.  Oh well. 

 

Bruno · Jan 22, 2003

To me, my born again day was when I no longer thought that God exists, I KNEW God exists. I asked and He came in such a way that I simply could not say no to Him. He talked to me in person, in my living room. I know this is a hard thing to grasp for those who never experienced it (most of my friends and family think I lost my marbles). Eversince then, one miracle after another has been happening in my life. (I am a scientist and I would have never been able to admit before that miracles happen, but now I know they do.)

geocajun · Jan 22, 2003

Originally posted by his-girl
Thank you geocajun,

I was raised in a rural community in the south; I didn't attend school with or know any Catholics when I was growing up so I wasn't quite sure what the differences in our religions were except what I've heard in passing.  I'm not one to assume, thought I'd ask instead.

no problem.
Its a good idea to know what the Catholic Church teaches on all matters of faith, in order that a person might *know* what they 'protest' when being a protestant.
I strongly suggest picking up a Catechism, which lays out our faith very clearly and it is very readable.
it can be purchased from amazon.com for $9.
if we had met in person I would give you one free =o)
the link for Amazon to purchase one is below.
also, there is an online edition which is searchable as well. it is good for referencing, but I strongly recommend buying the book to read.

Purchase a Catechism of the Catholic Church

Free Online Searchable Catechism

Annabel Lee · Jan 22, 2003

Originally posted by his-girl
Thank you geocajun,

I was raised in a rural community in the south; I didn't attend school with or know any Catholics when I was growing up so I wasn't quite sure what the differences in our religions were except what I've heard in passing.  I'm not one to assume, thought I'd ask instead.

See..we already have something in common. I grew up in a Irish/Italian Catholic neighborhood in NYC. I did not meet a protestant until I was 16.

I didn't understand the differences at the time either.

isshinwhat · Jan 22, 2003

Hi, his-girl. :wave:

The Catholic Church teaches that we are born into Christ at Baptism, whenever that may be. For an adult, this would be after hearing the call of Christ in your heart, and answering it. For Christians who were Baptized as infants, they were born again then. What our Protestant brothers and sisters refer to as a born-again experience, we believe to be a deepening of the relationship with God that was (ideally) begun at Baptism. Take Bruno for example. As a former Catholic, I am assuming he was Baptized as an infant. The experience that he has recently undergone (praise be to God!) he believes to have been when he was born again. Catholic Theology would teach that he was born again as an infant, and marked for God in a special way through the faith that his parents and godparents put in Christ in having him baptized. Therefore, his recent filling of the Holy Spirit would be a deepening of the relationship that was already there, however strained it might have been. Think the parable of the Prodigal Son. I hope you don't mind me using you as an example, Bruno! Regardless of our differing perspectives of the same event, we can all celebrate brother Bruno's accepting of Christ's call for his own!

God Bless,

Neal

his-girl · Jan 22, 2003

Thank you!

geocajun, that is a good idea....I was going to Barns and Noble tomorrow, they should have a Catechism there don't you think? I enjoy reading about other faiths (even though I don't consider the Catholic Faith another faith...). 

Annabelle, Wow, you grew up in NYC!  I've never been there...always wanted to go...just haven't done it yet.  I was raised Southern Baptist, but when I married my husband he wanted to join a new church..now I'm non-dem, (my mother is pitching a fit

) she think's I'm 'goin to hell for sure'.  (her words exactly)  lol

sshinwhat, thanks for the warm welcome. :wave:

In Christ,

 

 

isshinwhat · Jan 22, 2003

I was raised Southern Baptist...

My fiancee's Southern Baptist. I usually go to Church with her after Mass on Sundays. Her pastor is a good man, and a heckuva preacher. She'll be leaving her current church soon, though, because her parents have moved nearby for the first time in years. I'm moving to Florida soon, after living in Tennessee for all of my life, so she'll be spending her weekends with them, and attending their church. It's pretty neat, though, because her new pastor will be her uncle. We went to a candle light service there Christmas eve before midnight Mass, and I was impressed with his preaching. He's a very sincere man. In fact, he'll be marrying us in December.

Anyway, sorry for the hijack.. continue...

Neal

geocajun · Jan 22, 2003

Originally posted by his-girl
Thank you!

geocajun, that is a good idea....I was going to Barns and Noble tomorrow, they should have a Catechism there don't you think? I enjoy reading about other faiths (even though I don't consider the Catholic Faith another faith...). 

yes, they should have a few copies,
The Catechism is a real jewel to own, I hope you enjoy it!

Chris†opher Paul · Jan 22, 2003

Originally posted by his-girl
Chelsi,

IMHO, the only authority that was given by Jesus was to the apostles. 

That doesnt make sense. Why would Jesus give the apostles the power to forgive sins, if it was only meant for the first century? Were people in the first century the only ones that sinned? Of course not. And if confession doesnt matter, why did Jesus implement it?

The only logical answer is that it was passed on to their descendants, as Jesus intended.

(This isnt meant in a "non-loving way, "his-girl," so please don't take it wrong, this is how I post)

chelcb · Jan 22, 2003

His Girl:

Another reason we may be standoffish is because when someone does ask and we answer they will ignore what we say and keep asking as if we never have given them an answer in the first place.

At times it is as if they refuse to acknowledge the information. I guess because it's not what they wanted to hear. There are some that actually are disappointed that we are not about all the myths and lies that they heard.

his-girl · Jan 22, 2003

Originally posted by s0uljah
That doesnt make sense. Why would Jesus give the apostles the power to forgive sins, if it was only meant for the first century? Were people in the first century the only ones that sinned? Of course not. And if confession doesnt matter, why did Jesus implement it?

The only logical answer is that it was passed on to their descendants, as Jesus intended.

(This isnt meant in a "non-loving way, "his-girl," so please don't take it wrong, this is how I post)

s0uljah,

While I respect your opinion and beliefs, scripture tells us the authority Jesus gave the twelve apostles was to preach the gospel, heal the sick and drive out spirits. 

Also, I cannot find any reference to the apostles being given authority to 'forgive sins'.  The authority to forgive sins was Jesus' authority alone.  Matthew 9:6 'But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...."

Regarding the authority Jesus' gave to the apostles:

Matthew 10:1-8....He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness. These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.

Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." 

1 Thessalonians 4:1-2  Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.

Paul also wrote to the Christians in Galatia to denounce and correct false teachings that had infiltrated the chruches he and Barnabas had established earier.  Paul takes us back to the basics--what the gospel is, how you receive it and how you can apply it in your early life.  He is trying to persuade the Galatians to return to the pure gospel

Galatians 1:6-10  I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!  As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

isshinwhat · Jan 22, 2003

Also, I cannot find any reference to the apostles being given authority to 'forgive sins'. The authority to forgive sins was Jesus' authority alone. Matthew 9:6 'But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...."

John 20:21-23 states, "Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." The ability for the Apostles to forgive sins is based on their mission received from Christ. It is Christ's mission, which is the Father's, that the apostles are performing through the power of the Holy Spirit. It is through His Spirit that they have the authority to forgive sins, as their mission is an extension of the one mentioned in Matthew 9:6.

God Bless,

Neal

his-girl · Jan 23, 2003

Originally posted by isshinwhat
John 20:21-23 states, "Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." The ability for the Apostles to forgive sins is based on their mission received from Christ. It is Christ's mission, which is the Father's, that the apostles are performing through the power of the Holy Spirit. It is through His Spirit that they have the authority to forgive sins, as their mission is an extension of the one mentioned in Matthew 9:6.

God Bless,

Neal

Neal,

I'll have to pray and study on this.  Thank you for the scripture reference Neal.

In Christ,

Bruno · Jan 23, 2003

Originally posted by isshinwhat
And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

Whoever has the Holy Spirit has this ability. It is not an extra, it is included.

chelcb · Jan 23, 2003

Originally posted by Bruno
Whoever has the Holy Spirit has this ability. It is not an extra, it is included.

 

So you can forgive me my sins, Bruno?

Bruno · Jan 23, 2003

Originally posted by chelcb
 So you can forgive me my sins, Bruno?

Which sins do you regret and want forgiven?

chelcb · Jan 23, 2003

Originally posted by Bruno
Which sins do you regret and want forgiven?

 

I am not referring to forgiving me when I hurt you, I am asking if you have the power to forgive the sins that offend God, grant me pardon for them so I can enter heaven with a clean concious?

 

Bruno · Jan 23, 2003

Originally posted by chelcb
  I am not referring to forgiving me when I hurt you, I am asking if you have the power to forgive the sins that offend God, grant me pardon for them so I can enter heaven with a clean concious? 

I forgive you, Chelci. However,I am not God, therefore cannot open the door to Heaven for you. If you want Jesus to forgive you, go to Him directly and ask for forgiveness. He WILL hear you, He is God afterall. If you are sincere when you ask, He will forgive you.

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