Sabbath, creation institution or not?

Stryder06 said:

I'm sorry I don't see a difference between "made" and "created".

And I'm not trying to avoid any issue. I didn't think this thread was about the law. If it is then I'm done because I don't have any interest in discussing law with you guys.

and what was ingnored in regards to the use of the word "wherefore"? I didn't bring up Ex 20 in this thread. I started with Ex 16.

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Indeed you didn't and I must apologize. It was drive by. Sorry.

I wonder why we have those words in English if they always mean the exact same thing. Yes one could say they created dinner. Wonder why we always say made dinner. Interesting hugh?

OK so what does the word instituted mean to you? How do you get around the expression of created or made, which ever you prefer for discussion?

Now when did it occur? Are you going to vacate the position of your church? Or refuse to state your personal position?

Stryder06 said:

Did I say they were going to hell?

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Talk about assumptions. Frogster said nothing about hell.

Stryder06 said:

I'm pretty sure that was Deut. I quoted Ex 16. That wasn't law. You somehow managed to bring that up.

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I apologized.

Stryder06 said:

I'm not saying that, nor do I have a desire to argue with you over what I mean. I've been down that road with you before. Not interested in you twisting what I'm saying.

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Well aren't you saying or implying that one can sin and all they have to do is offer a sacrifice.

Voted Yes.

I'm not sure if that's the answer that I should have, but I'll base my thoughts and the tally can be shifted though if necessary.

While the WORD sabbath may not have been used, and the Law had not been given yet, it is fairly clear in the creation account in Genesis 2:3 that He intended for the 7th day to be kept holy and set aside. He rested on the 7th day. As we are to pursue His likeness, shouldn't we rest on the 7th day as well?

HCSB Gen2:3
3 God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, for on it He rested from His work of creation.

Cribstyl said:

If your plans are the usual, You can have the grammy for confusing the issues of discussion before we go any further.

That's true and we all agree with you.

Is that the best evidence you have for a creation instituted sabbath?
Is that one of many stones that we will see you drop?

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Can I ask a question? I have not gotten very far from post #1 where I read: "This not intended to be a bash SDA thread, so please be respectful to others."
But it sure looks like this was the intention, at least in light of your post here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7587113-3/#post58375344 So what's the big deal?

I look at Genesis 2:3 and see "And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done." Clearly, the seventh day is a holy day to God. I don't see any other day in the creation account that God set aside as holy. The SDAs celebrate that as the Sabbath and believe it to be Saturday? Okay. So? In tradition the Hebrews claim this holy day to be Friday sundown and it ends Saturday sundown (or thereabouts) and this, apparently, is what Jesus lived since Hebrew tradition has not changed. What we all call Friday, to SDAs (apparently), Jews, Messianic Jews and others becomes Saturday at sundown Friday and Friday actually started Thursday at sundown, etc. Okay...So? Scripture does say "And there was evening, and there was morning -- the first day." That meaning the first day began with evening. And what is there in Scripture or the creation account to indicate that Sunday is God's holy day? The fact that many believe Jesus rose from the dead on a Sunday is no indication that that should be God's holy day of rest. I have to just keep asking myself what did Jesus do? Aren't we supposed to pattern ourselves, conform ourselves to the way He lived? I was raised in a Christian household that always attended worship on Sunday. Big deal; that was what Christian tradition had become. I don't have a problem looking at Friday evening (which is actually the beginning of Saturday) for the Sabbath if that is what Jesus did nor do I have a problem worshipping on Sunday which we call the Lord's day. Many say we have to consider church history so let's consider it because church history was Hebrew tradition once upon a time; the tradition Jesus lived outside of the Pharisitic law which He detested. I don't see Jesus' death and resurrection changing anything except the sacrifice for salvation. God said remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. In the creation account, He only set aside the one day as holy, the seventh day and Jesus lived that as Saturday (beginning Friday evening).

What I keep hoping and praying for is more love and understanding within the Body.

Cribstyl said:

Dude, the sabbath was not given at creation or it would have been commanded at that time.

When God wanted them to keep it He commanded them to keep it....Read the books.

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So... you aren't really interested in a dialog with posted scripture like you asked for in the first post? You're more interested in hearing people agree with you?

You asked about when it was instituted, not commanded... as I understand the words, there is a difference there "Dude".

Dude, "I the Lord do not change." He's Mr. Consistency so what He first called the day of rest, is what the day of rest is. Being slaves for 400 years, I imagine it was hard to keep it but it still stood as what it was.

If I rest in Christ, am I not observing Sabbath as it was meant to be observed? Ceasing from my own works and resting in Christ's? This seems to me to be fulfilling, not destroying the Sabbath. Isn't that what Paul was insisting in Hebrews 3 and 4? The Sabbath didn't profit the Children of Israel because of unbelief; not because the Sabbath itself was wrong.

Either God created the Sabbath or man did.

Cribstyl said:

Well actually you're cherry picking on references that makes other aguments than creation sabbath. You know Ex16 is the first mention of sabbath. Should we also ignor that only those comming out of Egypt are given the Sabbath?

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Crib, it would seem that no matter what verse I give it's considering "cherry picking". I'm not asking you to ignore anything. From looking at the title of this thread, I thought you were interested in discussing when the sabbath originated.

You brought in Ex16 to show sabbath before Sinai. Since God made sabbathkeeping the sign of the covenant between Himself and the COI, claiming that sabbathkeeping was already given to humanity appears questionable at best.

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Again, I thought we were suppose to be discussing if the sabbath was instituted at Creation. Exodus 16 clearly shows the sabbath existing before Sinai. If that is the case, then when before Sinai did the 7th day become the sabbath? The word "sabbath" is used by God to identify His holy day upon which He rested. Genesis says that God rested on the 7th day. It's really just a matter of using simple logical deduction. This isn't even the meatest truth to discover in the bible. It's rather elementary.

Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Cribstyl said:

And your creation instituted text is......?????


Again, I thought we were suppose to be discussing if the sabbath was instituted at Creation. Exodus 16 clearly shows the sabbath existing before Sinai. If that is the case, then when before Sinai did the 7th day become the sabbath?

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Ex 16:23 Tomorrow is the Sabbath
Ex 16:29 says; The Lord has given you the Sabbath.
So it's no secret when Sabbath was first given. Posting Ex16 is like stepping on the keys and asking "where is the keys?"

Stryder, it not that we don't understand you, it's how you confuse what is written for what you can reason away. (logically deduct or add) Not to mention ignoring the OP to force all your arguments over and over.


Not true, the facts say seventh day. It does not say that God rested on the sabbath day. It says that God rested on the seventh day.

Not true....It's that little deception that changes everything. If we apply to understanding what is written we wont have to hide from half of the bible.

The word 'sabbath' always means a day (24hrs) of rest.
God seventh day rest was the end of all His work, so eternal rest was implied. When the bible tell us that those to who it was first preached entered not because of unbelief, this proves that God's rest is not a 24hr day.

The fact that no morning or evening was presented unlike the first six days of creation is reason to understand the eternal rest that God is now inviting us to enter. (Heb 4)

The sabbath was a sign. Jesus gives us true rest.[/quote]



???????? NO

BTW: Who is the "we" you keep referring to?

what day is this?



7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God [2] would not have spoken of another day later on.






try to forget the old cov, Paul said in Gal 4;10, if they got into sabbath, he wasted his time!

Fireinfolding said:

Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.


1Sam 17:16 Again, Jesse made seven of his sons to pass before Samuel. And Samuel said unto Jesse, The LORD hath not chosen these.


1Ch 2:15 David the seventh:

And yet David is chosen, but Samuel had all seven of His sons pass before Him, he's of the 8th as well in some way, still studying it though.

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I posted this last week as well

yodafett said:

Voted Yes.

I'm not sure if that's the answer that I should have, but I'll base my thoughts and the tally can be shifted though if necessary.

While the WORD sabbath may not have been used, and the Law had not been given yet, it is fairly clear in the creation account in Genesis 2:3 that He intended for the 7th day to be kept holy and set aside. He rested on the 7th day. As we are to pursue His likeness, shouldn't we rest on the 7th day as well?

HCSB Gen2:3
3 God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, for on it He rested from His work of creation.

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I find it very interesting that God gave Israel the 7th day sabbath a day of rest and God said they would never inter His rest.

I find that Jesus offered God's rest to them and they refused.