Does Satan and his minions get their power from God?

b&wpac7 · May 12, 2011

Girder of Loins said:
And demons are shown throughout the Old Testament(one big one)

"One big one" is hardly "throughout" and if you are talking about what I think you're talking about, I would dispute that it is a demon in the standard thinking.

Girder of Loins · May 13, 2011

To those who have replied to me:
For the "one big one" I am referring to, comes from the Old Testament. I believe it is in I Samuel, but correct me if I am wrong, as I do not have a Bible handy. Michael is told to go deliver a message to Samuel(I have not read this passage in awhile), and is stopped by Satan. It specifically says so. And Micahel calls for reinforcements, Gabriel shows up, and a battle for two or three days ensues. Now, if you want to tell me that this is not biblical, I do seriously doubt that you have ever read the Bible enough to debate on this topic. Satan is referred to as an archangel at least once in the NT, I believe. I also know many of these statements about Satan and such are from extrabiblical sources not put into the Bible, but are from the same authors of the Bible. But using their information, you can put it up against the Bible and prove their legitimacy. I am very bad with verses, I can't remember them even if my life counted on it, so if you want verses, it'll take me awhile.

FaithLikeARock · May 13, 2011

I suppose the better question could be, in response to the comparison between mental illness and demonic posession, why do demons pick random people to "take control of" when they could take control of say, the President, or someone with actual power?

I'm more curious about why god continues to allow such an evil to exist, knowing that it is causing his creation to turn against when, when according to the creation story he had no intention of them knowing about such an evil to begin with.

b&wpac7 · May 13, 2011

Girder of Loins said:
To those who have replied to me:
For the "one big one" I am referring to, comes from the Old Testament. I believe it is in I Samuel, but correct me if I am wrong, as I do not have a Bible handy. Michael is told to go deliver a message to Samuel(I have not read this passage in awhile), and is stopped by Satan. It specifically says so. And Micahel calls for reinforcements, Gabriel shows up, and a battle for two or three days ensues. Now, if you want to tell me that this is not biblical, I do seriously doubt that you have ever read the Bible enough to debate on this topic. Satan is referred to as an archangel at least once in the NT, I believe. I also know many of these statements about Satan and such are from extrabiblical sources not put into the Bible, but are from the same authors of the Bible. But using their information, you can put it up against the Bible and prove their legitimacy. I am very bad with verses, I can't remember them even if my life counted on it, so if you want verses, it'll take me awhile.

I believe you are thinking about the story in the book of Jude which is NT. Michael does not gift Satan in the Jewish Bible.

solarwave · May 13, 2011

Jase said:
Well, based on Judaism (which is all that existed at that point), God would have had to command them to possess humans. But there was no Angelic fall in Judaism, nor are there technically demons. At least, they aren't really discussed in Judaism. Jewish folklore, the Babylonian Talmud, and Kabbalah make reference to demons, but it's not really an issue in Jewish life. I'd guess we'd have to research when the New Testament developed the concept of demons, since Jesus and the Apostles would have never discussed them as practicing Jews. Do they exist in the original New Testament documents? Who knows.

The idea could have developed in the period between the Old and New Testaments. Do you think it is possible that demons could have been real but the writters of the Old Testament didn't think they important or didn't know about them?

Tim Myers · May 13, 2011

What evidence is there that there even is a "satan," let alone whether or not he has "minions"??.......

uberd00b · May 13, 2011

Gabe7 said:
Do evil powerful spirits get their powers from God? If so, does that mean God supports them in their evil doing?

If God is all powerful then nothing can happen without it's permission. This is unavoidable.

Gabe7 · May 13, 2011

Tim Myers said:
What evidence is there that there even is a "satan," let alone whether or not he has "minions"??.......

I guess its in the Bible somewhere.

quatona · May 13, 2011

Gabe7 said:
Do evil powerful spirits get their powers from God?

Where else could they possibly and ultimately get their powers from?

If so, does that mean God supports them in their evil doing?

Sure. Those guys depend on each other, after all. You can´t be the good guy when there are no bad guys. Drama 101.

b&wpac7 · May 13, 2011

quatona said:
Sure. Those guys depend on each other, after all. You can´t be the good guy when there are no bad guys. Drama 101.

Makes it interesting that in the Jewish Bible there is no ultimate evil opposing God, isn't it?

quatona · May 13, 2011

b&wpac7 said:
Makes it interesting that in the Jewish Bible there is no ultimate evil opposing God, isn't it?

Yes, interesting indeed!

Jase · May 13, 2011

solarwave said:
The idea could have developed in the period between the Old and New Testaments. Do you think it is possible that demons could have been real but the writters of the Old Testament didn't think they important or didn't know about them?

I don't know. Since angels don't have free will, demons would have to be purposely created by God, which just adds to the problem of evil.

Robbie_James_Francis · May 14, 2011

Gabe7 said:
Maybe different combinations of sinful behavior manifests as diagnosable criteria. If you look at people on antidepressants and antipsychotics they never seem to get cured from the medicine they get prescribed. The medicine often merely prolongs them from falling deeper into their mental abyss. Perhaps kicking out the demons would better help them in their struggles.

I can't even put into words how disgusting this type of thinking is, or begin to list the people I've known who've been affected by this stupidity. Truly, you know nothing.

Gabe7 · May 16, 2011

Robbie_James_Francis said:
I can't even put into words how disgusting this type of thinking is, or begin to list the people I've known who've been affected by this stupidity. Truly, you know nothing.

If you can't put into words why this type of thinking is wrong then maybe the problem lies with you. Just saying you disagree with me without offering a counter opinion is sort of lame.

BloodyRachel · May 17, 2011

Gabe7 said:
Do evil powerful spirits get their powers from God? If so, does that mean God supports them in their evil doing?

Brother, if they don't, that means God lacks power. God can't lack power. He's all-sovereign.

Does Satan and his minions get their power from God?

Nechamya ben Avraham

Future Math Teacher

Let the human mind loose.

Nechamya ben Avraham

solarwave

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The Emperor has no clothes.

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"God"? What do you mean??

Nechamya ben Avraham

"God"? What do you mean??

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May all beings have happiness and its causes

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