Silly me. I always thought that our sexuality and sexual relations within marriage were among the "good things of God".
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What the Bible say about masturbation
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Silly me. I always thought that our sexuality and sexual relations within marriage were among the "good things of God".
razzelflabben
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so now, your claim is that lustful desires are a good thing from God even though God calls them sinful? Wow, so now you know more than God about what is and is not good.....
BTW, notice I did NOT say that sex was a bad thing, nor did I say marriage was a bad thing, I did NOT say that sex in marriage was a bad thing, or that attraction to someone of the opposite sex was a bad thing, heck, notice I didn't even say that masturbation was a bad thing, instead I said that lust was a sinful thought, at least when my comments are put in context, it is what I said....taking things out of context and twisting them doesn't help your case one little bit...
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You know I think the problem is peoples opinion on sexuality. I think it is a sin if it becomes obsessive to the
point that you don't have a healthy relation with someone of the opposite sex
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chingchang
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Can you prove that masturbation is not "sexually immorality"? How can we know what "sexual immorality" is and is not?
CC
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okay i am sorry i made this topic plain in simple i have not found one thing in the bible that says masturbation is a sin basically was just saying get over it....or lets put it this way if you believe it to be a sin and continue to do it then it is a sin....if you don't think it is a sin then don't worry about it......some so called sins are more a belief of sin from a particular group of people...muslims believe eating pork is a sin so for them eating bacon is a sin...i don't believe that so eating pork isn't a sin for me.
WHAT I AM SAYING IS THERE IS NOTHING IN THE BIBLE THAT DIRECTLY SAYS MASTURBATION IS A SIN. SO THE ISSUE OF MASTURBATION IS A MATTER OF YOUR PERSONAL BELIEF
if you can find something let me no lol
WHAT I AM SAYING IS THERE IS NOTHING IN THE BIBLE THAT DIRECTLY SAYS MASTURBATION IS A SIN. SO THE ISSUE OF MASTURBATION IS A MATTER OF YOUR PERSONAL BELIEF
if you can find something let me no lol
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Zebra1552
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In other words it's a gray area that we need to figure out for ourselves. Sounds pretty reasonable. You have nothing to be sorry for.okay i am sorry i made this topic plain in simple i have not found one thing in the bible that says masturbation is a sin basically was just saying get over it....or lets put it this way if you believe it to be a sin and continue to do it then it is a sin....if you don't think it is a sin then don't worry about it......some so called sins are more a belief of sin from a particular group of people...muslims believe eating pork is a sin so for them eating bacon is a sin...i don't believe that so eating pork isn't a sin for me.
WHAT I AM SAYING IS THERE IS NOTHING IN THE BIBLE THAT DIRECTLY SAYS MASTURBATION IS A SIN. SO THE ISSUE OF MASTURBATION IS A MATTER OF YOUR PERSONAL BELIEF
if you can find something let me no lol
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Zebra1552
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Those that say it is a sin cannot show that it is from other verses in the Bible, as there are none on the topic. There is nothing about the Greek word that indicates sexual acts with anything other than two people, so to twist it to say it's talking about a self-act would be wrong. Of course I can't prove a negative, but I can point to the numerous things that refute the positive assertion that masturbation is sexual immorality.
How can we know what is and is not sexual immorality? Cross referencing. We're given God's design and what goes against that design, and we're given other items that give further criteria for things that aren't directly mentioned- love thy neighbor giving criteria for condemning child molestation for example, since it causes harm to come to the child. Doesn't take much searching to realize there's nothing to give criteria for condemning masturbation.
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razzelflabben
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there are many things in this world that the bible is "silent" on, like computers, and automobiles, and indoor toilets, but that doesn't mean that the biblical principals laid out, don't apply to the topic. this is the problem with saying...there are no passages of scripture that say masturbation is a sin, so therefore it must be good. Now that is not to say that masturbation is a sin or not a sin, but rather it is to say that there are other things in scripture that must be applied to every situation in order to understand God's intent. For example, scripture tells us that all the law and all the prophets are summed up by real, biblical love. As such, we can apply a real understanding (not world understanding) of love to everything we run into today and from that understanding decide if cyber bullying is sinful, or if inappropriate content, or kiddie inappropriate content is sinful. Just because it isn't listed specifically in scripture doesn't mean there are no guidelines, or rules to follow reguarding it's nature as being sinful or not. So the real question isn't "is there a scripture condemning masturbation" but rather what biblical principals apply to the topic of masturbation?okay i am sorry i made this topic plain in simple i have not found one thing in the bible that says masturbation is a sin basically was just saying get over it....or lets put it this way if you believe it to be a sin and continue to do it then it is a sin....if you don't think it is a sin then don't worry about it......some so called sins are more a belief of sin from a particular group of people...muslims believe eating pork is a sin so for them eating bacon is a sin...i don't believe that so eating pork isn't a sin for me.
WHAT I AM SAYING IS THERE IS NOTHING IN THE BIBLE THAT DIRECTLY SAYS MASTURBATION IS A SIN. SO THE ISSUE OF MASTURBATION IS A MATTER OF YOUR PERSONAL BELIEF
if you can find something let me no lol
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@Jaws... As someone who has struggled with sexual immorality in the past, I can tell you that Razzleflabben is making some good points here. My experience has been the following: sex is addicting, therefore the more sex you have the more sex you crave. And yes masturbation is a form of sex, you [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] don't you? It's natural, as with any addiction, to get somewhat desensitized to the current dosage: in this case masturbating. In order to get the same "high" that you used to get, requires either A. Taking a short break (ie not masturbating for a few days) or B. increasing the dosage (ie watching inappropriate content, or getting laid). It sounds like you really like masturbating and you don't want to give it up, which is completely understandable (trust me I know!) but the path of trying to justify sin through a sequence of logic is not the answer. You keep saying "oh that's based on assumptions"... well yes everything is based on an assumption at some point. If you say "why is that?" seven times about absolutely anything, you quickly realize that some things just are. I mean the whole idea of right vs. wrong is based on all kinds of assumptions in the first place. Questioning things is usually good, of course, but just because you're questions don't have answers, doesn't mean that you get to be correct by default. Sorry if I'm coming across as negative, I just feel like I've dealt with this enough to be somewhat of an authority. Then again maybe different people are different and other people don't find sex addicting. I can't speak for everyone.
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razzelflabben
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I'm not sure I can find the research, but the medical professionals are starting to recognize the addictive nature of sex. I've heard several medical professionals I personally know talking about the new research on the topic.
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Zebra1552
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Your experience isn't the same as everyone else's. Anecdotal evidence amounts to nothing.
You are not a psychologist, and even if you were you would be barred from giving such advice. As such, your claims have no backing to them unless you have external evidence to supply. Do you?
Read the mod hat. Here's a hint for you. Accusing someone you don't know over the internet of having a sin addiction isn't going to turn their ears on. Certainly not when you provide no evidence for such an accusation or even for the activity being sin. Alcohol is potentially addictive. Heck, food is potentially addictive. That doesn't make either of them sinful. Your argument fails because it eventually resorts to special pleading. I don't need logic to 'justify' masturbation. The burden of proof is on those who claim that it IS sin, not on those who claim it is not. If it is not, then there is nothing in the Bible to establish it as sin and as such no evidence other than a rebuttal can prove the negative position. If anything, the need for justification by logic resides with you and those who support your arguments.
Like the assumption that you are right and I am wrong? What is that assumption based on?
Declaring yourself an authority is nothing but an appeal to authority. If you have some real evidence rather than baseless claims I'll be happy to address your claims. As you yet do not, I will not be addressing them. Also, you can address them in a manner that does not baselessly accuse me of having a sex addiction. As you are not God or a good friend, that accusation is completely out of line.
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cowboysfan1970
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That does raise a potential problem though. If sex is addictive and the more sex that someone has the more they crave it, and I would assume that would lead to serious problems, what does that say then for married people? Should they then only have sex occasionally to avoid risking a sexual addiction? From what I've heard and read the opposite seems to be true for married couples. When one or both aren't having their sexual needs fulfilled then it causes serious problems and distance in the marriage. Many marriages have ended in divorce because of one or both having negative or very restrictive views about sex and their sexual obligations in the marriage. Do you see how that point of view though could be very flawed?
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razzelflabben
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Wouldn't this marriage issue you bring up tell us 1. sex is addictive, 2. in proper context sexual addiction can be controled (good reason to learn to be in control before marriage) and 3. that when sex is out of control in a marriage, as in inappropriate content, masturbation, affairs, etc. it can be destructive to the marriage. If these things can destroy an otherwise good marriage, what does that tell us about these things outside of marriage?
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Zebra1552
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It tells us nothing of sex outside of marriage because anything can destroy a good marriage. Food, alcohol, and television can also destroy a good marriage. That doesn't mean they are inherently evil. The issue he brings up reveals that the argument that 'sex is addictive' is nothing more than special pleading, as it only applies outside marriage and only to sex- obviously alcohol isn't inherently sinful just because it's potentially addictive, and certainly not food or video games. The argument 'sex is addictive' is also a slippery slope fallacy.
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@Jaws... I'm sorry if I sounded accusing, really. That's not my goal at all. You're right in that I'm not a good friend of yours, in fact I don't really know you at all. At the same time I have equally no reason to be your enemy, and as such I have no incentive to "accuse" you or make you out to be any sort of bad guy. Quite the contrary, I saw this merely as an opportunity to share my two cents with someone who's looking for information. My two cents was simple: I find it difficult to touch while keeping my thoughts pure. Perhaps my two cents only applies to me in my situation, perhaps. Yes, I offer only anecdotal information, but what would you prefer? Statistical information? It seems what your looking for is for someone to point out to some verse in the bible where it says "thou shalt not touch," but ya know the bible just doesn't really address it directly. It would seem to me that in cases where something is not directly addressed, there is then room for interpretation. All of our laws, in fact, are interpreted by the judicial branch, who then makes policies based on the spirit of whats in the constitution. Similarly we need to address things beyond the scope of the bible by considering the spirit of the bible's message. Truly that's why I love this forum so much; it gives an opportunity for people to quickly compile differing opinions.
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cowboysfan1970
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1. No, not necessarily. To some people chewing gum is addictive but not to everyone.
2. Two things, the first is that marriage won't cure someone of sexual addiction and two, having sex in marriage doesn't mean that one or the both of them will develop sexual addiction by having sex.
3. Yes, when sex is being abused in a marriage by being out of control to the point that one is demanding sex at all times without regard to the other's feelings it can and will be destructive to the marriage. But, the lack of it or surpressing it will be equally destructive.
Many people even to this day still think that the Victorian attitude towards sex and sexuality was righteous, Biblical, and holy. The fact is that it was none of those. When you really look at it the Victorians were sexually perverse and deviant. Demonizing sexuality isn't the answer to sexual problems or the solution to controlling it the right way. Misunderstanding the definition of lust has been as destructive to marriage as has pre-marital sex. The meaning of lust is not sexual desire or sexual feelings. Lust is intent and/or coveting. When a person takes their natural sexual desires and feelings and then starts planning to act upon them with someone they aren't married to, then they've sinned. The desires and feeling unto themselves aren't sinful. The people that condemn masturbation as a sin are going to have to come up with a better angle than to simply demonize sexuality in general and put people on a guilt trip. Those types of arguements are just too easy to disprove and are based in either a very poor understanding of the function of sex or someone just having a profound need to control the thoughts and actions of others. I used to have all of those very anti-sex beliefs floating around in my head and all they manage to do is make a person feel guilty for being as we were created to be and feel. There isn't anything holy about the strongly anti-sexual teachings that come from some pulpits on Sunday mornings or from legalistic youth group leaders. All they are doing is promoting heresey.
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razzelflabben
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but not every "addiction" is an addiction, some are just habits. In fact, for something to be an addiction it has to produce a chemical that affects us in a different way than something that is merely a habit. Many people confuse the two.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that I am saying either of these things. What I am saying, is just the opposite of either of these comments. What I am saying is that even in marriage, one must have certain restrictive controls on our sexual behavior, for example, it is not "permissible" to have an affair, to rape your spouse, etc. These are guidelines that not only God commands, but that man does as well. It's about learning to control such desires and channeling those desires into acceptable perameters.
Without doubt. But "abuse" within the marriage is about destruction, or devaluing. This can happen through the use of inappropriate content, masturbation, etc. It doesn't have to be an affair, or the "excess" or lack of sex. It can by the "type" of sex, etc. Any form of sexual behavior that devalues another, seems to me to fit under the category of sexual immorality being that love (the sum of all the law and prophets) is about valuing another human being.
I wonder why so many people think that if you don't embrace every sexual act short of rape, you are automatically demonizing sex? Can you shed light on this for me....seems to me there is a heck of a lot inbetween demonizing sex and accepting every sexual act short of rape. But that is just me apparently.
understanding the meaning of a word is destructive? How so?
I personally never said it was, in fact, I gave a very different definition, but go on.
sounds like the biblical understanding, bravo.
exactly what I said.
but who is demonizing sex? See above, I don't get this idea...there is a lot in between demonzing sex and accepting all sexual behavior as good.
I haven't seen those ideas presented on this thread, can you point me to them, so that I can review them? Thanks
Seems like you might be reading into posts what is not there, sounds like you are arguing against what you consider mainline belief rather than those who are here right now, trying to talk about a topic that you don't like mainline belief on.
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Zebra1552
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James 3:5
Information that is verifiable. This means either information from a peer reviewed psychological journal, or the Bible. I've debated this issue for years, and from debating it I changed my mind on the subject. My mind's not going to change by telling me a few stories.
You're right. I'm looking for those who claim it is sin to back their claims. There's plenty of room for interpretation, which is why I posted the link about lust. Not one person who claims that masturbation is a sin seems to be able to properly define lust using good Bible study tools.
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