Bad Argument Poll

Proverbs 10:18 "He who conceals his hatred has lying lips, and whoever spreads slander is a fool."

Proverbs 21:30 "There is no wisdom, no insight, no plan that can succeed against the Lord."

Proverbs 31:8-9 "Speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitue. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."

Proverbs 18:13 "He who answers before listening- that is his folly and shame."

But of course, everyone should have discernment as far as that all goes: in other words, don't create a huge argument over the color of the carpet. If truth is being challenged falsely, then speak up!

-I refuse to answer. The pearls before swine thing, remember?
-I object to the above option
-I object to everything that exists
-Where do I file the lawsuit?
-You post too many polls and ask too many questions!

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LOL

Originally posted by Susan
In option 8, there was an error. I meant to say "sin OR belief/unbelief" not "sin OF."

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Edited

Originally posted by Susan
An example would be someone using an urban legend in an evangelistic attempt while claiming the story to be 100% real, or someone trying to get someone to form a conviction against gambling by saying "Every gambler I ever knew grew green blobs on his face."

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Anyone using an urban legend or saying "Every gambler I ever knew grew green blobs on his face" is (extreme ignorance excluded) just asking to be proven wrong (by either Christians or non-Christians, or both), in my opinion. Because fellow Christians usually inform the person of the falseness of the story and the statement on gambling, unless the fellow Christians also believe the story and the statement on gambling ; and in my experience, non-Christians just love to prove Christians and their stories/statements wrong with urban legend debunking sites/sources and facts/statistics/accounts/experiences of gambling/gamblers.

There are many actual and truthful accounts of experiences and testimonies out there, and there are many honest ways to demonstrate the sinfulness of gambling, that using lies and fables or urban legends is quite unneeded and can be quite harmful and a sin.

If a Christian does not know if a story/account/testimony is an urban legend or not, hopefully he/she will do research about it and/or ask some fellow Christians about it; lest he/she uses an urban legend when he/she is not sure that it is true and actually occured.

I have occasionally gotten banged on for not showing enough unity with fellow Christians in debates. I stand by the general principle; I will argue against a bad proof of God, because I do not believe truth stands on falsehood. However, I am sometimes excessively inclined to pick nits.

Answers in Genesis has a great page of: Arguments Creationists Should NOT Use

http://truthorfiction.com/ is a good resource for debunking urban legends, stories, and fictitious e-mails; it also has e-mail viruses' updates and warnings.

As for finding great ways to demonstrate the sinfulness of gambling (and the sinfulness or righteousness of other things, as well) with scripture and without urban legends, http://www.christiananswers.com/ and http://www.carm.org/ are two Christian sites with many resources, although not everything on either site is correct; use discernment and common sense (as with all sites and when people tell you something as "fact").

I will often oppose a fellow Christian's views if I feel they are rooted in ignorance and/or spouted off inappropriately. I try to correct them in a proper, civil way, but have been known to get a bit sarcastic at times. I don't think that people should blindly agree with others just on the claim of Christian brotherhood.

I believe that we should point out truth and/or error in a doctrine and be able to backup our statements with the Bible.

I don't believe we should point people to other peoples books on the subject and/or quote what other people have said on the issue. In a court of law, I believe that is called "hearsay", and is unadmittable.

I also don't believe we should go around bringing peoples attention to the failures of others. We all have fallen short and unless we are prepared for our dirty laundry to be aired in public we should not be doing it to others. Remember, what we sow, we will reap. Good and/or bad.

Also, many times I have had well meaning people e-mail me stories and/or petitions that I know are either not true or at one time was true but now no longer is. Like the petition that has been around for years regarding Madalyn Murray O'Hair. The woman is dead, but I'm still getting petitions that say she's trying to stop christian TV and will I sign the petition and pass it on.

I gently let people know the truth and then it is dropped. If they choose not to believe me and continue to pass it on then it is between them and God. At least I told them. I certaintly would not hound and harass them because they choose to continue spreading the rumor.

In another thread I posted this:

. . .the issue I'm aiming at is fellow brethren accusing other fellow brethren of things without checking ALL the facts.

Such as: about 20 years ago an expose' book came out that was written by a well known christian radio personality. This person proceded to rip apart another christian of whom one I personally knew.

I borrowed the book and in the ref portions of the book it referred to supposed statements made by this minister. It gave the chapters and page numbers, etc where we would supposedly find said comments.

Well, I just happend to have "said" book and I did not just take Mr/s Radio Personality's word for it. I looked it up right out of the book itself. I found that Mr/s Radio Personality missquoted very much. Portions of whole sentences were missing, etc., giving different meanings to what was really said. Not to mention that I knew the person being criticized.

This expose' book is still in print today. I have read several posts where people are being told to read this book. Several people have and are reading it and not bothering to go the rest of the way and check out if the exposed really did say what Mr/s Radio Personality said they said.

And, that is a problem. We should not be treating our fellow brethren like that. Shooting first and not asking questions. It is wrong.

I believe from my first question, which was "did you bother to check out the whole ref", it was perceived that I was from a certain camp that believed certain things.

While I may be from the side assumed, all assumptions made are not necessarily the truth. And without asking questions, we end up criticizing and putting down people we are going to spend eternity with.

I just think we need to be kind to each other. If you see me say something that you believe is wrong, show me why it is wrong according to the scripture. Not, according to what someone else said about someone whom I don't follow who supposedly teaches the same thing I do.

Anyway, that's all I have to say.

Quaffer

Hey Q empty your pm box, I can't send you any emails!

I just think people sometimes think and analyse too much, they shld just learn to go with the peace.

A synonym for analyse is study; studying is good.

Originally posted by Andrew
I just think people sometimes think and analyse too much, they shld just learn to go with the peace.

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You're right, they try to make hard what God has made plain and simple.



2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Originally posted by Susan
Thinking and analysis are NOT bad. If you think they are, I feel very sad for you.

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A good point Susan.

Matthew 22:37 says:

Jesus said to him, ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’

We are to use the mind God gave us.

Compared to the 'gambler with green blotches' story there is actually a good example of this sort of thing in the abortion debate: that women who have abortions almost always suffer a "post-abortion depression" and they are more at risk for breast cancer. Research has shown that both are flasehoods perpetrated by the organized anti-abortion movement. Now, first of all, like most people I am prayerfully pro-choice though I personally object to abortion. So regardless of the religion or religious motivation of the person making either of those points I would challenge either or both without hesitation. Another, similar, is that various cosmetics companies use products of aborted tissues is perfume and such, I've heard it about Yves St. Laurent, Max Factor, Passion by Elizabeth Taylor, Tommy Hilfiger, and so forth, even my brand Estee Lauder. The truth is various of these products use PLACENTAL tissue not FETAL tissue, and the bulk of it they use comes from live births rather than abortions. The motivation is to create an alarmism about the sinful nature of the world, lambaste female adornment: many of the sects to which this is directed either direct or by tradition have most women in it adorn themself plainly, and there is also an element of anti-semitism in it as many famous designers are Jewish. I would certainly challenge that regardless of the source. I would certainly be interestred to hear opposing views on these things.

On the other hand as a teacher I've used urban legends to illustrate a point but I've always identified them as urban legends. But once in an out of class setting I told one with the seeming implication (Lord, forgive me) it was real to the wife of a student who was physically and emotionally abusing him. She denied him money and demanded he account for all his time with her: A man who drove a cement mixer truck happened to on his way to a job drive by his house. In front of it was a new Caddilac convertible. Through the front window of the house he could see his wife drinking coffee and laughing and talking with a man in a suit. He decided to dump his load of cement into the passenger section of the convertible. His wife and the man heard the noise and ran outside. She screamed "What are you doing!" He said "I'll show you and that boyfriend of yours!" as the cement poured over the seats and the dash. So she said "You dumb $%#@$ that's your car! I got it for you for your birthday and he's the salesman who was delivering it!"

1: When would you challenge a bad argument being used by another Christian?

my answer to this question is too situational to really give you a definitive answer here.  Basically it comes down to the situation and how grievious the error is.  First sometimes challenging a bad argument does more harm than good.  As another has said one must have discernment. Secondly I might not argue whether or not some gifts have ceased for the cause of unity however I will argue against the ones who say that Christ is not God.  The first one two Christians can disagree wile the second is a core belief that one must hve to be a christian. 

2: Do you believe that challenging a fallacious argument against a sin is tantamount to endorsing the sin itself?

No.  At least not most of the time.  I think it could be in some situations.  Discernment is very important before one talks. 
James 1:19
19 {This} you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak {and} slow to anger;
(NAU)

 

I love the arguements!
These are opportunities to test my understanding and forces me to hear what other people think. I have learned piles from these discussions.
They are not for the timid though. If you have your feelings hurt easily, or cannot stand to be disagreed with, then this is not the place for you.