New and old covenant here

Son of Israel · Oct 27, 2010

pilgrimage said:
Yes, your right. And the marraige covenents would be more interesting.

Jeremiah 31:36-37
36If those ordinances depart from before me, saith Jehovah, the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37Thus saith Jehovah: If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off the whole seed of Israel, for all that they have done, saith Jehovah.
　
Psalm 148:6
6And he established them for ever and ever; he made [for them] a statute which shall not pass.
　
Jeremiah 33:25
25Thus saith Jehovah: If my covenant of day and night [stand] not, if I have not appointed the ordinances of the heavens and the earth,
　
Genesis 8:22
22Henceforth, all the days of the earth, seed [time] and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night, shall not cease.
　
Isaiah 14:1
1For Jehovah will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in rest in their own land; and the stranger shall be united to them, and they shall be joined to the house of Jacob.
　
Jeremiah 31:20
20Is Ephraim a dear son unto me? is he a child of delights? For whilst I have been speaking against him, I do constantly remember him still. Therefore my bowels are troubled for him: I will certainly have mercy upon him, saith Jehovah.
　
Zechariah 10:8
8I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall multiply as they used to multiply.
　

As you say, the marriage Covenant is very interesting. The old "lawful" marriage covenant was replaced by the new marriage covenant to the New Jerusalem Bride of Christ.

The New Marriage Covenant to Israel replaced the Old Marriage Covenant to Israel. As your above verses didn't allude to the "Marriage Covenant, I'll post a couple of those scriptures. The prophecies Jeremiah, Isaiah, Hosea especially, deal with the promised New Law-ful Marriage Covenenant to the Bridegroom Jesus.

Here's a nice one,

(Jer 31:31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
(Jer 31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
(Jer 31:33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Fulfilled in Christ to all believers;

(Heb 8:6) But now hath he obtained a ministry the more excellent, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which hath been enacted upon better promises.
(Heb 8:7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then would no place have been sought for a second.
(Heb 8:8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
(Heb 8:9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them forth out of the land of Egypt; For they continued not in my covenant, And I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
(Heb 8:10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And on their heart also will I write them: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people:
(Heb 8:11) And they shall not teach every man his fellowcitizen, And every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: For all shall know me, From the least to the greatest of them.
(Heb 8:12) For I will be merciful to their iniquities, And their sins will I remember no more.
(Heb 8:13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. But that which is becoming old and waxeth aged is nigh unto vanishing away.

I believe this is the New Marriage Covenant that Fireinfolding is referring to in her OP.
As a woman is released from her husband in death, so is it how that Old marriage Law was done away from upon us when the HUSBAND DIED;

(Rom 7:1) Or are ye ignorant, brethren (for I speak to men that know the law), how that the law hath dominion over a man for so long time as he liveth?
(Rom 7:2) For the woman that hath a husband is bound by law to the husband while he liveth; but if the husband die, she is discharged from the law of the husband.
(Rom 7:3) So then if, while the husband liveth, she be joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if the husband die, she is free from the law, so that she is no adulteress, though she be joined to another man.
(Rom 7:4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also were made dead to the law through the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who was raised from the dead, that we might bring forth fruit unto God.

Christ, the Husband to His Heavenly Jerusalem Church Mt Zion Bride;

Heb 12:22 but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable hosts of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 and to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant,

(Gal 6:15) for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation;
(Gal 6:16) and as many as by this rule do walk--peace upon them, and kindness, and on the Israel of God!

Those called by Jesus, are the Israel of God. For only unto us lost sheep is He sent. Only those who answer His call, are His sheep.

(Mat 15:24) But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

(Gal 4:21) Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
(Gal 4:22) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, one by the handmaid, and one by the freewoman.
(Gal 4:23) Howbeit the son by the handmaid is born after the flesh; but the son by the freewoman is born through promise.
(Gal 4:24) Which things contain an allegory: for these women are two covenants; one from mount Sinai, bearing children unto bondage, which is Hagar.
(Gal 4:25) Now this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to the Jerusalem that now is: for she is in bondage with her children.
(Gal 4:26) But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
(Gal 4:27) For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her which hath the husband.
(Gal 4:28) Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
(Gal 4:29) But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
(Gal 4:30) Howbeit what saith the scripture? Cast out the handmaid and her son: for the son of the handmaid shall not inherit with the son of the freewoman.
(Gal 4:31) Wherefore, brethren, we are not children of a handmaid, but of the freewoman.

Those in Christ, are the only true Israel Bride. So clear isn't it!
Fire, is this what you were thinking of in your OP?

Fireinfolding · Oct 27, 2010

Yes Bruce, love the way you show things you have a way of clarifying that I love, I dont have that gift myself, I just "connect" things and sometimes the more I connect the more I see. I really wanted to catch the various ways (which can be found) and expounded on concerning this.

Thank you so much Bruce, your such a blessing brother

Son of Israel · Oct 27, 2010

pilgrimage said:
The promises in this verse got me to thinking what are the promises mentioned. 2 Cor 7:1 says the promises are these, Sorry to post the whole chapter but I think it applies.

Gal 3:21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law
2 Corinthians 6

1But [as] fellow-workmen, we also beseech that ye receive not the grace of God in vain:
2(for he says, I have listened to thee in an accepted time, and I have helped thee in a day of salvation: behold, now [is the] well-accepted time; behold, now [the] day of salvation
3giving no manner of offence in anything, that the ministry be not blamed;
4but in everything commending ourselves as God's ministers, in much endurance, in afflictions, in necessities, in straits,
5in stripes, in prisons, in riots, in labours, in watchings, in fastings,
6in pureness, in knowledge, in longsuffering, in kindness, in [the] Holy Spirit, in love unfeigned,
7in [the] word of truth, in [the] power of God; through the arms of righteousness on the right hand and left,
8through glory and dishonour, through evil report and good report: as deceivers, and true;
9as unknown, and well known; as dying, and behold, we live; as disciplined, and not put to death;
10as grieved, but always rejoicing; as poor, but enriching many; as having nothing, and possessing all things.
11Our mouth is opened to you, Corinthians, our heart is expanded.
12Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your affections;
13but for an answering recompense, (I speak as to children,) let *your* heart also expand itself.
14Be not diversely yoked with unbelievers; for what participation [is there] between righteousness and lawlessness? or what fellowship of light with darkness?
15and what consent of Christ with Beliar, or what part for a believer along with an unbeliever?
16and what agreement of God's temple with idols? for *ye* are [the] living God's temple; according as God has said, I will dwell among them, and walk among [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be to me a people.
17Wherefore come out from the midst of them, and be separated, saith [the] Lord, and touch not [what is] unclean, and *I* will receive you;
18and I will be to you for a Father, and ye shall be to me for sons and daughters, saith [the] Lord Almighty.

2 Corinthians 7

1Having therefore these promises, beloved, let us purify ourselves from every pollution of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God's fear.

Yes, verse 18 is that "Promise of the Father" of which all promises are fulfilled. It was the Abrahamic Covenant, the Promise of the Father having a "Seed". It was prior to the Law of Moses, superceding it.

(Gal 3:16) Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

These promises couldn't come by the law as your verse in Gal 3:21 agrees with.
They could only come by Christ in the New Covenant. Fulfilling the Promises to Abraham in Christ to all of US! Those of the NAME ISRAEL! The CHURCH! YEA!! :clap:

Fireinfolding · Oct 27, 2010

Amen Bruce

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Phil 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

student ad x · Oct 27, 2010

- MOD HAT ON -

Howdy folks, this thread has been moved from General Theology to the Covenant Theology Forum.

Carry on.........

- MOD HAT OFF -

visionary · Oct 27, 2010

The Ephraim prophecy.. and Revelation reveals.. the multitude.

Gen 4817And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.

18And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

19And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

Fireinfolding · Oct 27, 2010

This is interesting visionary Son of Israel shared with me some awesome things in this before, I told him I couldnt follow certain things in respects to this beliving he was following a genealogy thing but he so clarified it and it was pretty kool, I hope he posts it again he goes into enourmous detail with it but it was such a blessing. Glad you brought it up!

visionary · Oct 27, 2010

Then you will love this you tube series... but it explains everything about God's covenant with man..

YouTube - Jim Staley/Identity Crisis (Part 1)

Son of Israel · Oct 27, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
This is interesting visionary Son of Israel shared with me some awesome things in this before, I told him I couldnt follow certain things in respects to this beliving he was following a genealogy thing but he so clarified it and it was pretty kool, I hope he posts it again he goes into enourmous detail with it but it was such a blessing. Glad you brought it up!

I found it! Your wish is my command m'lady

This is an excerpt from the "Great Covenant" part 3...

Let this register in as we read, for this is so important to know about.
No son of Jacob except Judah and Joseph, received any of the blessings of the Great Covenant. This will become evident, please be patient, because that is in chapter 49. First, chapter 48.

Grampa Jacob was blind. He was about to die so he called all of his 12 sons to him. Joseph brought his two sons also. And the very first thing Grampa Jacob did when he pulled himself up in bed, was to ask for Joseph (who was NOT the firstborn we should note).
Actually, Grampa Jacob asked for Josephs sons Ephraim and Manasseh. What is particularly of interest in doing so is how blind Grampa Jacob has to manipulate his right hand onto the head of the YOUNGER son before pronouncing the Blessing of the Great Covenant.

I am going to copy and paste much of Genesis 48 here. This is what we are going to look at. Then after we assimilate this well go on to Genesis 49.

This is so exciting Ill be right back lol!

Ok

(Gen 48:1) And it came to pass after these things, that one told Joseph, Behold, thy father is sick: and he took with him his two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim.

(Gen 48:2) And one told Jacob, and said, Behold, thy son Joseph cometh unto thee: and Israel strengthened himself, and sat upon the bed.

(Gen 48:3) And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,

(Gen 48:4) And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.

(Gen 48:5) And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine.

Fascinating! Grampa Jacob is speaking as ISRAEL the Blessed Name that God gave him.
He is also saying the name of the younger son FIRST!
Then, he is pronouncing them HIS SONS! They are MINE. They are Israel!

Ruben and Simeon, the actual two first (and second) sons, Jacob is REPLACING THEM. They are NOT the ones who receive the Name Israel!

Is this cool or what?

The Name Israel ant the Great Covenant blessing of MULTITUDES (nations/gentiles) is upon the YOUNGER SON of Joseph.

Grampa Jacob altogether bypasses his own actual sons for the blessing of the Great Covenant, for they were wicked. Just as Ishmael was bypassed, just as Esau was bypassed, now we see that the natural sons of Jacob are bypassed and the NAME ISRAEL is pronounced upon Ephraim and Manasseh, and the youngest is first!

Here is what Grampa Jacob does when Joseph positions his two sons before Jacob

(Gen 48:13) And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him.

(Gen 48:14) And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.

Jacob crossed his arms to do that LOL!

(Gen 48:15) And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,

(Gen 48:16) The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

Does this rock yet? Lol! Hardly ANYONE today KNOWS this!

The NAME ISRAEL and the NAME of Abraham (FATHER OF MULTITUDES) and the BLESSING is all upon the heads of the sons of Joseph and NOT UPON JACOBS NATURAL SONS. They are to be multitudes.

Now at this point, Joseph protested because he saw that his dad crossed his arms and laid his right hand on the younger sons head

(Gen 48:17) And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.

(Gen 48:18) And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

(Gen 48:19) And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

Grampa Jacob was making a very significant distinction here. What was he saying? Who was the younger brother who would be the greatest? What does this actually MEAN?

It was to be JESUS! It was to be the ISRAEL that was to come out of JESUS!

Son of Israel · Oct 27, 2010

(continued)

As we read in the O.T., we see a great Nation called Israel that existed first, that would be the firstborn son Manasseh. But the YOUNGER son, that one further down the timeline, would be the GREATEST SON and would be the Great Multitudes that God promised would come out of Abrahams SEED, which we know is Christ.

Is this cool or what lol. Is anybody here blown away by these scriptures as I am? When I first read these scriptures for years, I never saw any of this. I was to carnal in thinking they were even important. I was taught something altogether different by mens teachings so none of these scriptures made sense. But now, the providence and planning of God and how he manifested every detail out in these mens lives in parabolic prophecy is just awesome. We can see it as led by His Holy Spirit with open hearts and open eyes! It is occasion to worship Him whose thoughts are so far above ours!

And we arent even to chapter 49 yet lol.

But we can see so much of this as fulfilled in the N.T. scriptures. This is the key to understanding N.T. scriptures in fact. Ive never seen so much confusion by people interpreting Rom 11:25 for instance. So many dont know these scriptures here it is so sad!

(Rom 11:25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(Rom 11:26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(Rom 11:27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Paul is specifically basing his statement here on the Abrahamic Covenant. Israel comes out of the multitudes of Gentiles or Nations that the descendents of Joseph became!

Now remember, geneology is not the issue. It is the Spiritual meaning. Natural Israel was often called Ephraim in the O.T. We will be looking at those scriptures. In fact, the very first King of the 10 tribes of the northern Kingdom of Israel after the split;

1Ki 11:26 And Jeroboam the son of Nebat, an Ephrathite (Ephaimite)
(1Ki 11:28) And the man Jeroboam was a mighty man of valour: and Solomon seeing the young man that he was industrious, he made him ruler over all the charge of the house of Joseph.
(1Ki 11:29) And it came to pass at that time when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him in the way; and he had clad himself with a new garment; and they two were alone in the field:
(1Ki 11:30) And Ahijah caught the new garment that was on him, and rent it in twelve pieces:
(1Ki 11:31) And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
(1Ki 11:32) (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel

The significance of God splitting the kingdom and making an Ephraimite the King, will become obvious now. It is the first step in God scattering the natural descendents of Jacob into the Nations/Gentiles as he promised in Ephraim, a multitude of nations

Over and over God said he would scatter natural Israel, along with the NAME ISRAEL, amongst the Nations/Gentiles

(Lev 26:33) And I will scatter you among the heathen (NATIONS/GENTILES), and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

(Deu 28:64) And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

Fulfilling the Abrahamic promise of multitudes of nations

Even the Pharisees of Jesus day wondered how those Israelites who were scattered would be gathered

(Joh 7:35) Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

(Joh 11:51) And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
(Joh 11:52) And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Jesus was fulfilling the prophesies of gathering scattered Israel back;

(Mat 9:36) But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.
(Mat 9:37) Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest trulyisplenteous, but the labourersarefew;
(Mat 9:38)Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

The blessing of Grampa Jacob upon Ephraim would result in Jesus gathering those who were a great multitude scattered abroad into the Gentiles!

(Gen 48:20) And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.

He also reaffirmed the double portion of the Birthright upon Joseph;

(Gen 48:22) Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

This closes out chapter 48 and brings us into further revelation of chapter 49 which, believe it or not, is even more revealing in its contents. Im going to post this now and hopefully post chapter 49 in a while. But anyone interested in jumping ahead, notice how none of Jacobs other sons receive anything except Judah, who receives the Scepter promise. That is in verses 8 thru 11.

If you want to get really industrious and look at the details of Josephs Blessing, that is in verses 22 thru 26.

From this point, the Blessing is split into two separate houses and becomes renown amongst the prophets.

(Psa 114:2)Judah was his sanctuary, andIsrael his dominion. King and Multitudes.

From this point, we can now read forth in the O.T. and identify the separate two portions of the scepter and the multitudes within the two houses that develop eventually into the two separate nations of Judah and Israel... aka "JEWS" and "GENTILES".
</SPAN>

Son of Israel · Oct 27, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
Yes Bruce, love the way you show things you have a way of clarifying that I love, I dont have that gift myself, I just "connect" things and sometimes the more I connect the more I see. I really wanted to catch the various ways (which can be found) and expounded on concerning this.

Thank you so much Bruce, your such a blessing brother

You have quite the gift yourself Fire

It is the same as I do it, the way you lay out all the scripture that connects. Then let the meaning lift itself up out of scripture, into our minds. Then Jesus enlightens us to meaning! Then it all fits lol. Then our Spirit is renewed in remembrance of all that He has written, now in our hearts. I wish all people would do that. There would never be any contentions then

Fireinfolding · Oct 27, 2010

Blessings to you too Bruce :hug:

Actually I need help here Bro I havent managed to line these up very perfectly yet, new ground here ^_^

I'm fiddling around with them in various ways to get a feel for them before posting them. I need to study these more. Can you assist me?

I know there is WAY MORE as you show them (from old) but I have to start somewhere and trying to see this in the correct way still a bit wobbly here ^_^

It will take a fews days to get streamline Im hoping lol

I have to take it from here to start, but can you tell me if I am catching the picture after this manner correctly or not bro?

Mat 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Mat 2:19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.

Acts 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 8:9 ...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

How about here Bro?

Ephes 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

First attempt at trying it in this way

I got to catch these things better, can you cross check me or the direction I am going into before I add more into it?

PROPHECYKID · Oct 27, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
Thanks for sharing this PROPHECY Kid, curious, I was looking at something a few weeks ago, and where it takes us to in its comparisons, and I thought, wow kool I hadnt noticed this before, well I had but not this way. MAybe you can help me with some insight on this, dont feel on the spot or anything I'm sorta asking everyong for their thoughts on this.

I edited this out of the other thread I was on, figuring we could discuss it, fat chance ofcourse

But what would you make of these comparisons here, notice where they direct us to here

Exodus 32:6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

1Cr 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

1Cr 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

The same confirmed here...

Acts 7:41 And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

Which is speaking of here...

Exodus 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

Which again Paul says...

1Cr 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

1Cr 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

Now how can be properly convey the NC with reference to this in a way that can make understanding more probrable for all here, any clue?

Or anyone?

I don't think this directly has anything to do with the New covenant. It is interesting though. I think a point that many people miss is that in Paul's day the bible was the Old Testament. So Paul says that what was written before was written for our learning. It should not be cast out. What took place in the Old Covenant shouldn't be cast out either but should help us now to understand about sin and redemption. But those people then were disobeying the law, even when it had not been given in written form and Paul is telling us not to follow them. I am trying to get a connection as best as I can to address your question. Maybe someone else can help me.

Fireinfolding · Oct 27, 2010

PROPHECYKID said:
I don't think this directly has anything to do with the New covenant. It is interesting though. I think a point that many people miss is that in Paul's day the bible was the Old Testament. So Paul says that what was written before was written for our learning. It should not be cast out. What took place in the Old Covenant shouldn't be cast out either but should help us now to understand about sin and redemption. But those people then were disobeying the law, even when it had not been given in written form and Paul is telling us not to follow them. I am trying to get a connection as best as I can to address your question. Maybe someone else can help me.

Thanks for giving it a shot bro, your the first one, even from the other thread it was overpast, my thoughts similiar to yours... "very interesting" I thought to and so far I have just been sitting on it (so to speak) tillcan recconcile it in such a way I can say, "New covenant" and THAT dont matter as we hear. So this is a good example, need to look at this more myself

Son of Israel · Oct 27, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
Blessings to you too Bruce

Actually I need help here Bro I havent managed to line these up very perfectly yet, new ground here

I'm fiddling around with them in various ways to get a feel for them before posting them. I need to study these more. Can you assist me?

I know there is WAY MORE as you show them (from old) but I have to start somewhere and trying to see this in the correct way still a bit wobbly here It will take a fews days to get streamline Im hoping lol

I have to take it from here to start, but can you tell me if I am catching the picture after this manner correctly or not bro?

Mat 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Mat 2:19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, Saying,Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.

Acts 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Gal 3:16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 8:9 ...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

How about here Bro?

Ephes 2:12 That at that time ye werewithout Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope,and without God in the world:

Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

First attempt at trying it in this way

I got to catch these things better, can you cross check me or the direction I am going into before I add more into it?

It's Beautiful Sister! I can't imagine how to improve anything here lol. It is quite clear...

Jesus = Israel.
Those who reject Jesus aren't Israel.
Jesus is the singular "seed" of Abraham from whence comes the "Promise" fulfilled to Israel.
The children of the flesh of Abraham are not Israel and not counted as His "Seed".
We believers in Christ, whoever we may be, are the only "Seed" of Abraham.
Without Christ's Holy Spirit, we are not Christ's and are without hope and are strangers from the commonwealth of Israel.

Pretty clear dear Lady

It is all in the New Marriage Covenant where God has Children, the Promise of the Father fulfilled in Christ, the Abrahamic Covenant fulfilled! Woo hoo

Keep it up! You are witnessing beautifully

Fireinfolding · Oct 27, 2010

Thanks Bruce, your studies got me into looking into these things further can I ask why three are listed here (Im being lazy) its great when you got studiers around ya and you can slack off ^_^

I'll post this small portion, but in Isaiah 8:14 why are both house of Israel spoken of AND the inhabitants of Jerusalem? The both house I can catch as they are shown below it, I was just wondering why he didnt stop there is all, he continued or is it just so obvious that Im missing it? ^_^

Isaiah 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

1Cr 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom

1Cr 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness

1Cr 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

These appear to match up here...

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Returning here...

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

visionary · Oct 28, 2010

From this point, we can now read forth in the O.T. and identify the separate two portions of the scepter and the multitudes within the two houses that develop eventually into the two separate nations of Judah and Israel... aka "JEWS" and "GENTILES".

Which Yeshua is going to join together like two sticks united under His Banner.

Fireinfolding · Oct 28, 2010

visionary said:
Which Yeshua is going to join together like two sticks united under His Banner.

This being in accord with that correct visionary?

Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

His sheep in two folds and joining them together into one (himself) of those he has called from among the two into one fold having one shepherd. Where there would be no more Jew and greek (unto whom he is a stumblingblock and a rock of offence) in respects to the both houses of Israel). Them which are called of the two houses. Where one predominantly seeks a sign (as the Jews) and the other after wisdom (as the gentiles) but of them called between the two are gathered into one (making them one new man in himself) right?

So it would be now, they who have not the Spirit of Christ are none of his and by the which we are known, no longer knowing anyone after the flesh but by the Spirit (the promise) being children of the promise.

Is that how you see it?

visionary · Oct 28, 2010

Yep.. and we are pretty close to the fulfillment of the gentiles.. and the blinders will come off of Jews... Then the transformation for both will occur into Him who is our Redeemer, our Messiah.

Fireinfolding · Oct 28, 2010

visionary said:
Yep.. and we are pretty close to the fulfillment of the gentiles.. and the blinders will come off of Jews... Then the transformation for both will occur into Him who is our Redeemer, our Messiah.

Now I know that the Son of Israel is a Jew after the flesh, although he puts nothing on it whatsover (counting it for dung type thing). This is the one thing I'd love to see you two converse about because I THINK (if I understood him correctly) understands this differently but I would love to see you two discuss this between to you, I think it would be beneficial because I cant say I completely understand this yet.

Hopefully he will come back, I know he is limited in being able to get to a computer and can only do so as circumstances allow him to but this would be something I would love to hear discussed between you two.

New and old covenant here

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