The Shack Author Says: "The God of Evangelical Christianity is a Monster"

imperfectchristian · Jul 2, 2010

Oh goody...I haven't been on a witch hunt in ages.

heatherfb · Jul 2, 2010

I was so disappointed when I read the shack - I didn't even think it was well written. I seemed to have missed the assumed universalist undertones but the thing that annoyed me the most was his potrayal of the trinity as being like a circle (I think that's how it was described) and his view that there is no rank or authority to the trinity. To me that seems to contradict Scripture which clearly states that God is the head of Christ who is the head of the church.

Anyway, having said that if this book is reaching people who have no real interest in church etc then I think it can be a useful tool (just not for me though!!!)

Simon_Templar · Jul 2, 2010

heatherfb said:
I was so disappointed when I read the shack - I didn't even think it was well written. I seemed to have missed the assumed universalist undertones but the thing that annoyed me the most was his potrayal of the trinity as being like a circle (I think that's how it was described) and his view that there is no rank or authority to the trinity. To me that seems to contradict Scripture which clearly states that God is the head of Christ who is the head of the church.

Anyway, having said that if this book is reaching people who have no real interest in church etc then I think it can be a useful tool (just not for me though!!!)

I can see how people get the universalist stuff. The book walks a pretty fine line there. If the author says he didn't intend that, I'm not going to insist that he did.
However, what angered me and disgusted me the most about the book was his portrayal of God. I thought it was blasphemous on several levels, not to mention wrong on several points, not the least of which is the one you point out regarding authority and heirarchy.

*edit*
There were a couple of good points to the depiction of God in the book, and I had the strong impression as I was reading the book that it was like a poison pill coated in sugar, or a trojan horse.

Tobias · Jul 2, 2010

When God speaks, I listen. I don't care who it comes through, how where or when. There is a certain unmistakable energy that accompanies God's Voice when He speaks.

I thumbed through The Shack and got nothing. It was mildly interesting, on some levels. But as far as God actually speaking, I rate it on the exact same level as that New Age book called Conversations With God. It's pretty much the same premise, God has coffee and donuts with this guy and he writes it all down. He asks questions, and God answers.

It's not my cup of tea. Don't get me wrong, I have had enough of those kinds of conversations with God myself. Just, they are deeply personal, and I would never think of writing them down and using them to compel anybody to be persuaded to my beliefs. God's Voice is sacred to me; not something to pretend to imitate for the sake of... well, anything! I take Prophecy very seriously, and would never say "God said..." without knowing for certain that I got it right, and that God also intended for me to repeat it.

I do not feel the authors of these books hold themselves to this same standard.

TehMill · Jul 2, 2010

But the evangelical doctrine IS unbalanced and in many, many mouths and minds horribly distorted, if this were not so this guy could not get away with it.

When Joel [forgot his name, Osteen] said [too weakly in my view] "I do not feel I am called to judge who will go to heaven/hell" he was saying the exact truth. I would say it in the face of ANY fundy and stand my ground. We ARE NOT CALLED TO JUDGE who is going to hell, not in this grace epoch.

There WILL be a day when every man and every woman will have to stand before God and give account and The King will separate the sheep from the goats and yes the goats will go into eternal punishment and we should warn all solemnly.

But fundies will take beautiful scriptures like "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life, no man cometh to the Father but by Me" and they use it to turn it into a way of damning people. This is the soft underbelly of evangelicalism and the devil knows it and bros and sisses if evangelicals do not sort it out he will use it to destroy the church.

lismore · Jul 2, 2010

I pray that one day Christians will get back to reading the bible and not all these modern penny dreadfuls.

If you didn't buy these books, then no more would be written.

The more controversial, sensationalist a book is, the more Christians seem to buy it! A few years ago Steve Chalke wrote a book in which he described the cross as 'cosmic child abuse', as a result lots of AOG ers ran out and bought the book.

Save your money.

lismore · Jul 2, 2010

TehMill said:
But the evangelical doctrine IS unbalanced and in many, many mouths and minds horribly distorted, if this were not so this guy could not get away with it.

Hello there :wave:

I'm curious, what do you mean by the 'evangelical doctrine?'.

Thanks

probinson · Jul 2, 2010

jeolmstead said:
Here is a site where some of this is addressed by the publishers:

Is The Shack Heresy?

John O.

Thank you for the link, John.

To be quite honest, I've not read The Shack, though I've heard people talking about it over the years. I'm not a big reader in the first place, but I must say that all of this controversy, and the reviews ranging from "It's the best book EVAR!" to "It's the demon-spawn of Satan himself!" has gotten my curiosity up, and I think I may have to read it.

Especially after reading the article at the link you posted above, it seems, much as I suspected, people are seeing what they want to see and attacking that which they disagree with, which is the MO of the heresy hunter.

I couldn't agree more with this quote from the article;

"...Its amazing how much people will make up to indulge their fantasies and falsely label something to fit their own conclusions...."

So I may have to read this book just to see what all the hubbub is about. But my inclination is that this is just more tilting at windmills.

surfingangel · Jul 2, 2010

Faulty said:
What do you all think about this?

From the Lighthouse Newsletter - June 28, 2010

This past Friday night, author and researcher Ray Yungen attended a lecture at Concordia University in Portland, Oregon to hear The Shack author William Paul Young. The name of Young's talk was "Can God Really Be That Good?" During the talk, Young told the audience that "the God of evangelical Christianity is a monster." He was referring to the evangelical belief that God is a God of judgment and will judge the unbelieving. Young also rejects the biblical view of atonement (wherein Jesus died as a substitute for us to pay the price of our sins). This view by Young is evident in a radio interview he had one year ago where he rejected this view of the atonement. He echoes the sentiments of William Shannon and Brennan Manning, who both say that the God who punishes His own son to pay for the sins of others does not exist:
He is the God who exacts the last drop of blood from His Son, so that His just anger, evoked by sin, may be appeased. This God whose moods alternate between graciousness and fierce anger - a God who is still all too familiar to many Christians - is a caricature of the true God. This God does not exist. (Shannon, Silence on Fire, p. 110, also see Manning who stated the very same thing inÂ Above All, pp. 58-59)

Young told the audience that his book has now sold 14 million copies. He says that he believes his book has been a "god thing" to heal people's souls because so many people have been tainted by this evangelical God.

Young said his book is so effective because when you put something in a story form it gets past mental defenses.

Young's obvious distain for Christianity (in a derogatory manner, he said there are "1.4 million" rules in the evangelical church) is shown in his book as well when The Shack's "Jesus" states: "I have no desire to make them [people from all religious and political backgrounds] Christian, but I do want to join them in their transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa" (p. 184).

Young asked "evangelicals," "Do you want to hold onto your darkness?" and answered for them, "No, you want to get rid of it."

By that he means that evangelical can at times present God as a distant, powerful, judgmental God that should always be feared by all. I agree that God is powerful, just and deserves reverence, but people so often then miss the father heart of God. This side of God is all about how he loves his children, wants only good for them and is full of grace for us to always come running back into his arms. It's important to have a balance of this reverence for God and knowledge of the father heart of God.

lismore · Jul 2, 2010

surfingangel said:
By that he means that evangelical can at times present God as a distant, powerful, judgmental God that should always be feared by all.

Hello There!

yes, there do seem to be groups that present a mighty harsh view of God.

But for me, that is not what the gospel presents. God's compassion and mercy...........

However before you can understand compassion and mercy you need to understand righteousness, right and wrong.........

It's a fine balance.

surfingangel · Jul 2, 2010

lismore said:
Hello There!

yes, there do seem to be groups that present a mighty harsh view of God.

But for me, that is not what the gospel presents. God's compassion and mercy...........

However before you can understand compassion and mercy you need to understand righteousness, right and wrong.........

It's a fine balance.

Hey

Not quite sure what you're arguing there, but I personally think that people need to be presented with a God who is loving, merciful and has a father heart toward us, children. The conviction to change our ways will come later through the Holy Spirit and the reverence will also develop.

Tamara224 · Jul 2, 2010

jeolmstead said:
Loved the book, apparently I do not see in it what others do.

In the book Mack asks Jesus if all roads lead to God. Jesus replied "No Mack, some roads lead nowhere"

Not exactly a universalistic response.

I do agree that the god many evangelicals serve is a monster. I believe this is the point Mr. Young was making. He is the same god the Pharisees served.

God hates sin because it hurts the people He loves.

I have read Pauls response to the question as to if he is a universalist and he said he is not and that The Shack was not meant to promote universalism.

I only know what I read on his site about it.

God does have anger. He does have wrath. However, neither of these negate His love one iota.

It is hard for us to understand how God can be 100% angry and 100% loving at the same time. Because of our lack of understanding of His nature we judge His character to be like our own. This is a mistake.

In any event, I loved the book. I have read it several times and I do not believe the charges made against it or the author.

John O.

QFT

Well said, John.

ANM29 · Jul 2, 2010

Still have yet to read the book, but hear so many good thing about it. God is not the way most have presented him to be at all.

Looking forward to reading the book.

Zugzwang · Jul 2, 2010

YouTube - Episode of wretched - Author of The Shack is universalist

(Taken from the radio interview on the link from the first page)

Interviewer: "You wouldn't agree that the cross was a place of punishment for our sin?"

Young: "No, I am not a penal substitution reformation kind of guy."

(Later on)

Young: "Salvation was accomplished on the cross, once for all, and was finished. So it's not the issue of salvation that prevents people from eternal life, it's the issue of making a choice to be in a relationship with God."

Interviewer: "They have to believe in him to have eternal life, would you agree?"

Young: Absolutely. absolutely, yeah. But here's the deal; salvation was accomplished by what he did, not even by our choice to believe it."

Interviewer: So you mean if they don't believe in this life, it sounds like you're saying they can be ultimately saved."

Young: "I don't know, I don't know that, I don't think anybody knows that."

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

(By the way, in the radio interview, whenever pressed on this issue, he says "I don't know.")

It doesn't matter Mr. Young, WE know, because the WORD says so.

So much for "heresy hunting."

ANM29 · Jul 2, 2010

I believe some of what he says and I see where he is going with it. I too believe in Christian Universalism, so I see why it seems I would love this book. It makes sense now.

I actually had a strong feeling he too was a Christian Universalist just from what I heard of the book. It totally all makes sense now.

Tamara224 · Jul 2, 2010

Just because the guy doesn't believe in penal substitutionary atonement doesn't mean he's a universalist. He believes and has said that Jesus is the only way - but the modernistic dogmatic evangelical/fundamentalist view of soteriology leaves a lot still in question.

Frankly, some of the 20th century twists on penal substitutionary atonement are downright frightening. And they're not even "twists" so much as just taking the idea to it's logical conclusion. For example: the idea of Jesus dying spiritually is a perfectly natural extension of the "substitutionary" part of the atonement.

None of the Evangelicals I've seen have been willing to take a good look at what they believe and examine the flaws or objections. In their dogmaticism and prideful need of a rigid formula, they end up with a doctrine that posits a God who sends babies and the mentally ill - not to mention people in remote jungles who have never heard of Jesus - to hell because they didn't say the sinner's prayer before they died. And they wonder why that god leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. :doh:

And saying "I don't know" when you really don't know isn't, and shouldn't be, considered heretical. A false teacher doesn't say "I don't know". A false teacher makes up an answer and pretends to know when he doesn't.

disciple-ofjesus · Jul 2, 2010

I just did some research on "Christian" Universalism. There is alot wrong with that. That is all I will say. And yes, weather he says or not, that he believes it, he is promoting it. NOT EVERYONE that says "Lord Lord" will get into the kingdom. He got it right, not all roads lead to God, but wow.

ANM29 · Jul 2, 2010

There is a lot more wrong with God burning people forever and ever for sins that have already been paid for. There is really MORE wrong with that, than believing he has plans to save everybody, even if by FIRE. There is much more wrong with saying that God created people to leave them with the ability to determine their own destiny ( sorry, this is not true ) and he sit back with his hands tied saying, "They are on their own free wills", there is MUCH wrong with that belief.

No, not everybody who says Lord, Lord will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but the Kingdom of Heaven is not all there is to the after life either. Heaven is not Eternal and Hell is not either.

You are believing a pagan belief that the Catholic Church incorporated into Christianity.

disciple-ofjesus · Jul 2, 2010

I am sorry you have a hard time with God. He is quite clear in the Word. I will stick with the Word. Thanks! :wave:

ANM29 · Jul 2, 2010

disciple-ofjesus said:
I am sorry you have a hard time with God. He is quite clear in the Word. I will stick with the Word. Thanks!

Sorry, I am not having a hard time with God. I love God, he is the air I breathe and song I sing. You totally do not know me at all.

I will stick with the Word too. :wave:

Have a good day!

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