Immunizations and your children

TCat · Jun 25, 2010

Oops my bad, this story is from Shine on Yahoo, interesting comments posted too

Whooping cough is declared an epidemic in California - Parenting on Shine

tessas212 · Jun 28, 2010

TCat said:
My kids are vaccinated on schedule. Today there is a headline in a California newspaper talking about the whooping cough epidemic going on there right NOW. Nearly 1000 children have it, and 5 babies have died from it. The article states the cause is from undervaccinated or non vaccianted children and how highly contagious it is...
Not my kids, the risk of disease, especailly in these days where so many people are refusing to protect their children and others is far greater than the potential side effects of the vaccines imo.

The funny part about all this publicity about whooping cough is that the Pertussis vaccine doe NOT (repeat: NOT!) prevent transmission. It only makes you a silent carrier, so instead of knowing you have it and staying home to prevent the spread, you go around spreading it everywhere. The vaccine, again, does more harm than good, even when considering the transmission of the disease.

Unvaccinated children (and adults) are NOT the cause of transmission, contrary to popular belief.

OGM · Jun 28, 2010

Do any of you believe that vaccines were a bad invention and that they should all be done away with?

b.hopeful · Jun 28, 2010

tessas212 said:
The funny part about all this publicity about whooping cough is that the Pertussis vaccine doe NOT (repeat: NOT!) prevent transmission. It only makes you a silent carrier, so instead of knowing you have it and staying home to prevent the spread, you go around spreading it everywhere. The vaccine, again, does more harm than good, even when considering the transmission of the disease.

Unvaccinated children (and adults) are NOT the cause of transmission, contrary to popular belief.

What is the cause of transmission? I didn't ask about carriers...I asked about transmission. Transmission is the passing of something...and if your child is vaccinated...it can't be passed to them. That is why vaccination is important. It protects the person vaccinated from carriers. Since we don't have a cure to rid the world of pertussis...we rely on a vaccine to prevent the spread. If someone is vaccinated, there is no transmission...since the disease is not passed on to them.

That fact is that pertussis is basically a mild cold(as far as symptoms go). Expecting every adult with a mild cough to stay homebound is ridiculous...especially when a shot would give your child the protection needed to fight transmission is exposed.

tessas212 · Jun 28, 2010

b.hopeful said:
What is the cause of transmission? I didn't ask about carriers...I asked about transmission. Transmission is the passing of something...and if your child is vaccinated...it can't be passed to them. That is why vaccination is important. It protects the person vaccinated from carriers. Since we don't have a cure to rid the world of pertussis...we rely on a vaccine to prevent the spread. If someone is vaccinated, there is no transmission...since the disease is not passed on to them.

That fact is that pertussis is basically a mild cold(as far as symptoms go). Expecting every adult with a mild cough to stay homebound is ridiculous...especially when a shot would give your child the protection needed to fight transmission is exposed.

The bolded is NOT true at all. Vaccines are not 100%. What happens with the pertussis vaccine is that it is not all that reliable as it is claimed to be - people contract it, but have very, very mild symptoms, so do not stay home, and spread it further. The Pertussis vaccine does NOT prevent the transmission of the disease.

Pertussis

http://www.ima.org.il/imaj/ar06may-2.pdf

Pertussis is considered an endemic disease, characterized by an epidemic every 25 years. This rate of exacerbations has not changed, even after the introduction of mass vaccination a fact that indicates the efficacy of the vaccine in preventing the disease but not the transmission of the causative agent (B. pertussis) within the population [19].

_________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol6no5/pdf/srugo.pdf

The effects of whole-cell pertussis vaccine wane after 5 to 10 years, and infection in a vaccinated person causes nonspecific symptoms (3-7). Vaccinated adolescents and adults may serve as reservoirs for silent infection and become potential transmitters to unprotected infants (3-11). The whole-cell vaccine for pertussis is protective only against clinical disease, not against infection (15-17). Therefore, even young, recently vaccinated children may serve as reservoirs and potential transmitters of infection.

Pediatrics -- Sign In Page

Case definition has been particularly problematic in all of the recent DTaP vaccine efficacy trials. For uniform comparative purposes a case definition was suggested by a WHO expert committee.39 This definition required 21 days of paroxysmal cough plus laboratory confirmation of pertussis in the subject or household contact. There are 2 problems with this definition. The first is that a substantial number of B pertussis infections in unvaccinated children are mild and would not meet the case definition. The second is that all pertussis vaccines tend to modify duration and severity of disease rather than completely preventing illness.18,2326-29,35,36,40 Therefore, the WHO definition has made all vaccines look better than they are and it has tended to obscure differences between vaccines.

b.hopeful · Jun 28, 2010

Not 100%...but real close. This is splitting hairs.

The nature of vaccine is to prevent transmission...so yes, it does help to prevent transmission...but you are required to be vaccinated to be offered any protection. You seem to be arguing that it's not a cure....and that's a given, it's a vaccine.

Girlee · Jun 28, 2010

tessas212 said:
The funny part about all this publicity about whooping cough is that the Pertussis vaccine doe NOT (repeat: NOT!) prevent transmission. It only makes you a silent carrier, so instead of knowing you have it and staying home to prevent the spread, you go around spreading it everywhere. The vaccine, again, does more harm than good, even when considering the transmission of the disease.

Unvaccinated children (and adults) are NOT the cause of transmission, contrary to popular belief.

If someone is a "silent carrier", that means they do not get sick from it.
So, while not preventing the spread, the vaccine is preventing myself and my child from actually getting sick from this, and even possibly dying from it.

But are you proposing that I don't vaccinate, and allow my child to get sick (and possibly die) from this disease so that we do not accidentally pass this disease on to your child who you chose not to vaccinate?

Maybe there is some truth to vaccinated people being the main cause of transmission (I have not had the chance to research that as of yet). However, not vaccinating is definately the leading cause of children getting gravely ill and dying from it! Or many other side effects this can bring on such as pneumonia or seizures.

So, all things considered, when it comes to my child's health and well being, in my eyes, the vaccine definately does more good than harm.

OGM · Jun 28, 2010

What about the polio and old small pox vaccines, were they a bad thing too? Should the world stop all vaccination programs?

epiclesis · Jun 28, 2010

dnp200450 said:
What about the polio and old small pox vaccines, were they a bad thing too? Should the world stop all vaccination programs?

Some of them are a bad thing in and of themselves because they are made from aborted fetus cells.

Addicted2~Jesus · Jun 29, 2010

The best advice is simply to do your own research... such as.. read your own Bible.... don't rely on others to simply spoon feed you God's word. I believed in vac's when I was a kid because everone told me to... when I grew an my wife actually was the one to do it, begun to brin up research on all of this that I opened my eyes. A vac is simply (an everone knows this I'm sure) a mild version of whatever it's vac is for... which means.. you are a carrier an can very eaisly spread to someone else...... that bein said.. what's er rather.. who's worse? Those who put such products as aborted children into their blood so they do not git sick, er those who choose not to?

tessas212 · Jun 29, 2010

During outbreaks very, very large percentages of VACCINATED children are often infected. Such as that recent measles outbreak. And I"m sure it is even the case in this recent outbreak of pertussis.

And again, I repeat:
Pertussis is considered an endemic disease, characterized by an epidemic every 2–5 years. This rate of exacerbations has not changed, even after the introduction of mass vaccination

"Getting immunized does not make you immune to the bacteria. Its a toxoid vaccine. It makes you immune to the toxin the bacteria produces. The toxin is an irritant and it makes you cough.

You can still be a carrier of the bacteria, you will just be asymptomatic. If you are asymtomatic you wont be coughing so you wont be spreading it as much, but its still present in your secretions and you can still spread it that way"

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...act/104/6/1381

Quote:
"...all pertussis vaccines tend to modify duration and severity of disease rather than completely preventing illness."
Neutralizing Antibodies to Adenylate Cyclase Toxin Promote Phagocytosis of Bordetella pertussis by Human Neutrophils -- Weingart et al. 68 (12): 7152 -- Infection and Immunity

Quote:
"It is becoming clear that B. pertussis bacteria are capable of infecting and proliferating in a large proportion of vaccinated individuals. In one study, 33% of the exposed individuals receiving the highly effective five-component acellular pertussis vaccine had evidence of infection and 24% coughed for 21 days or more. In the same study, 82% of individuals receiving a licensed whole-cell vaccine had evidence of infection and 65% coughed for 21 days or more."
Pertussis Infection in Fully Vaccinated Children in Day-Care Centers, Israel

Quote:
"The whole-cell vaccine for pertussis is protective only against clinical disease, not against infection. Therefore, even young, recently vaccinated children may serve as reservoirs and potential transmitters of infection."
The reason is the P portion of DTaP and Tdap doesn't induce bactericidal activity in vaccinated individuals. So vaccinating someone doesn't make them clear the bacteria from their lungs.

Characterization of Bactericidal Immune Responses following Vaccination with Acellular Pertussis Vaccines in Adults -- Weingart et al. 68 (12): 7175 -- Infection and Immunity

Quote:
"We found no evidence that acellular vaccines promoted antibody-dependent killing by complement of enhanced phagocytosis by neutrophils."
Thus going around and vaccinating adults for pertussis isn't going to stop them from carrying the bacteria and transmitting it to babies. The vaccine doesn't work that way. The point of the vaccine is to be "immune" to the toxin the bacteria release that irritates the lungs (thus making you cough), so that you cough less severely and for 5-10 days less than an unvaccinated person.

Here are some links to previous threads where this has been discussed before:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1226677

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=998940

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=806782

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=900456

OGM · Jun 29, 2010

epiclesis said:
Some of them are a bad thing in and of themselves because they are made from aborted fetus cells.

:o!!!

Girlee · Jun 30, 2010

I was induced 2 days before my due date. (and still ended up having him on my due date).
Well, my mom was induced with all 4 of us, and she was talking about it.
She kept talking about how they would give me Pertussis to start my contractions!!
the nurses looked at her really weird when she said that.
Turns out she meant Pictocin!!

b.hopeful · Jun 30, 2010

Girlee said:
I was induced 2 days before my due date. (and still ended up having him on my due date).
Well, my mom was induced with all 4 of us, and she was talking about it.
She kept talking about how they would give me Pertussis to start my contractions!!
the nurses looked at her really weird when she said that.
Turns out she meant Pictocin!!

LOL!! We stopped at Starbucks and my mom told me to order her an Al Pacino....um, cappuccino mom?

ChildByGrace · Jun 30, 2010

We had our ds vac'd on schedule. Our dd has been done up to date but they were done slightly late as she kept being ill when they were due to be done.

I see no reason for them not to be done. While they can still get the various illnesses they will be in a much milder form.
Also-having seen the effect that such things as polio can have on someone I'd rather have the vac.

In response to people saying that they won't put the chemicals in their bodies, I assume that means that they also only eat organic food, they don't use sunscreen, wear manmade fibre clothes, wash their clothes in regular detergent etc etc. All these things gave many many chemicals in them that can have an effect on our health but alot if people choose to forget about that!

TCat · Jul 2, 2010

tessas212 said:
During outbreaks very, very large percentages of VACCINATED children are often infected. Quote:

Yes, people can and do sometimes get a disease they have been vaccinated againstm generally the illness is much less than had they not been vaccinated at all.

Case in point, my 5 yr old contracted chicken pox 3 years after he was vaccinated for it. He had 3 little pox on his face, never felt sick and the only reason we knew it was chicken pox was from the notice we saw posted at daycare when we returned from vacation. He never felt ill at all.

This is significant to me because as a child I was EXTREMELY ill from the pox, nearly hospitalized, ran high dangerous fevers and could not break out into the pox. I missed school and was miserable for 3 weeks. I did however give them to my sister and she had all the pox I missed LOL!

TCat · Jul 2, 2010

epiclesis said:
Some of them are a bad thing in and of themselves because they are made from aborted fetus cells.

Check your facts, vaccines are NOT made up of aborted fetal cells. While there was some fetal tissue used to grow the original virus in the 60's there is NONE in the vaccines our children recieve.

epiclesis · Jul 2, 2010

TCat said:
Check your facts, vaccines are NOT made up of aborted fetal cells. While there was some fetal tissue used to grow the original virus in the 60's there is NONE in the vaccines our children recieve.

Wrong... you go check your facts. There are still vaccines being distributed that are derived from aborted fetal cells. It even says so on their info sheet with their side effects.

I didn't say that -all- vaccines have it in them, but about half do, by default.

seaisabella · Jul 2, 2010

I didn't say that -all- vaccines have it in them, but about half do, by default.

Half of all vaccines have aborted human fetal cell tissue in them? Mind providing some sources for that. I just did some googling and could only find 4 vaccines that use them, several of which depending on which brand you use have another vaccine for the same dissease that does not.

jgonz · Jul 2, 2010

A good source for looking that up is ABORTED FETAL CELL LINE VACCINES

Immunizations and your children

Daily surrender

Dog Behavior Consultant

Newbie

Sharp as a razor, soft as a prayer

Dog Behavior Consultant

Sharp as a razor, soft as a prayer

Newbie

Newbie

Legend

Senior Veteran

Dog Behavior Consultant

Newbie

Newbie

Sharp as a razor, soft as a prayer

Isn't God's grace the best !!!

Daily surrender

Daily surrender

Legend

Junior Member

What G-d calls you to do, He equips you to do.

Similar threads