Afterlife does not exist?

JohnRabbit said:

first, answer my question.

is the spirit the man?

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I did, theres an outward man and an inward man, theres the first man which is a living soul and a second man called a life quickening spirit both are regarded as the man, one perishes and the other is renewed. Theres no either or between the two

angelmom01 said:

His answer will likely be the same as mine used to be... "it was a vision". Therefore it can easily be "explained away" by those who believe in soul sleep. :o

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Matthew 17:9 ( NKJV ) 9Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”

since we can't believe Jesus, that it was a vision, how do you explain it?

angelmom01 said:

And how do you reconcile that with Peter's claim that David was both dead and buried?

Perhaps "the graves" that were opened are not "the graves" that you think were opened?

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Luke 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.

Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Heres some graves and sepulchres for ya

The body of "this death" eh?

Fireinfolding said:

I did, theres an outward man and an inward man, theres the first man which is a living soul and a second man called a life quickening spirit both are regarded as the man, one perishes and the other is renewed. Theres no either or between the two

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so, you're saying that man already has something in him that can live forever?

JohnRabbit said:

Matthew 17:9 ( NKJV ) 9Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”

since we can't believe Jesus that it was a vision, how do you explain it?

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She does believe it was a vision, shes just saying because of the fact that it was it cannot be used to convince them who believe in soul sleep (as she "used to" believe that) and that would be her first choice to speak for it... sorta like she knows how their mind works (given she was one of them at one time).

Fireinfolding said:

Luke 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.

Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Heres some graves and sepulchres for ya

The body of "this death" eh?

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what are you trying to say with matt 23:27?

i'm a bit miffed.

JohnRabbit said:

so, you're saying that man already something in him that can live forever?

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In regards to what? That the outward man which perishes but the inward man is being renewed? Thats scripture saying that "not me"

Which man is renewed?

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

We put on Christ right? He's not the outward man (which perishes) right?

Fireinfolding said:

She does believe it was a vision, shes just saying because of the fact that it was it cannot be used to convince them who believe in soul sleep (as she "used to" believe that) and that would be her first choice to speak for it... sorta like she knows how their mind works (given she was one of them at one time).

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so, i'm asking you, vision or no?

Fireinfolding said:

In regards to what? That the outward man which perishes but the inward man is being renewed? Thats scripture saying that "not me"

Which man is renewed?

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

We put on Christ right? He's not the outward man (which perishes) right?

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this to me, talks about the renewing of one's mind into repentance. we should put off the old man and put on the new. baptism is the symbol of this act.

in col 3:10, the key to me in that verse is 'which is renewed in knowledge'.

so, it's not a question of which man is being renewed.

rather, the knowledge of the man is being renewed, the verse says so.

JohnRabbit said:

what are you trying to say with matt 23:27?

i'm a bit miffed.

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Dont you mean "What is HE trying to say"? He is comparing THEM to GRAVES, the same word used in THE GRAVES were opened, just in a figuritive sense

JohnRabbit said:

this to me, talks about the renewing of one's mind into repentance. we should put off the old man and put on the new. baptism is the symbol of this act.

in col 3:10, the key to me in that verse is 'which is renewed in knowledge'.

the knowledge of the man is being renewed, the verse says so.

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Yes it does me as well, to be CARNALLY MINDED IS DEATH whereas to be SPIRITUALLY MINDED IS LIFE right? The last enemy IS DEATH right? and we were ENEMIES in OUR MINDS werent we? He puts his "enemies" UNDER His feet (or teaching) And we are given THE MIND OF CHRIST, and death (also) is swallowed up in victory too right? He gives us "the victory" too right?

Baptism is a figure sure, but theres a reality to that figure, that was only one verse.

Heres are the others

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

We "put on" The Lord Jesus

Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ

He alone hath immortality right? Are we to BE UNCLOTHED or CLOTHED UPON? THIS MORTAL puts on IMMORTALITY right?

2Cr 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Fireinfolding said:

Dont you mean "What is HE trying to say"? He is comparing THEM to GRAVES, the same word used in THE GRAVES were opened, just in a figuritive sense

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Matthew 23:28 ( NKJV ) 28Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

isn't this the essence of col 3:10?

Fireinfolding said:

Yes it does me as well, to be CARNALLY MINDED IS DEATH whereas to be SPIRITUALLY MINDED IS LIFE right? The last enemy IS DEATH right? and we were ENEMIES in OUR MINDS werent we? He puts his "enemies" UNDER His feet (or teaching) And we are given THE MIND OF CHRIST, and death (also) is swallowed up in victory too right? He gives us "the victory" too right?

Baptism is a figure sure, but theres a reality to that figure, that was only one verse.

Heres are the others

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

We "put on" The Lord Jesus

Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ

He alone hath immortality right? Are we to BE UNCLOTHED or CLOTHED UPON? THIS MORTAL puts on IMMORTALITY right?

2Cr 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might bemade manifest in our mortal flesh.

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i know we put on the mind of Christ after conversion, i.e., baptism and repentance.

but, when do we put on this immortality?

JohnRabbit said:

Matthew 17:9 ( NKJV ) 9Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”

since we can't believe Jesus, that it was a vision, how do you explain it?

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And how do you "we can't believe Jesus" out of the fact that it was a vision?

Does the fact that it was a vision somehow prove to you that those men were really not there, but dead?

JohnRabbit said:

so, i'm asking you, vision or no?

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Mat 17:9 Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

You should be asking Jesus, he said it was a vision, I agree with him. though I understand what the vision is showing, they are speaking of his decease and all that he was to accomplish in Jerusalem and how they (The law representive of Moses) and the prophets (representive of Elijah) in the vision spake concerning Christ, Peter wanted to "separate them" Gods voice spoke saying this is my Son hear ye him speaks to this scripture...

Mark 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Mark 9:5-6 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

Mark 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Mark 9:8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

Which answers in this...

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets

Luke 24:34 These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Thats why they werent to tell any man till he rose from the dead (as the effect of every vision was being fulfilled Jesus Christ) "they speaking of his decease"

1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Not unto themselves did they minister these things but unto us

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

They had to wait to say anything because he is declared the Son of God by the spirit of holiness and by the resurrection of the dead. so showing Moses and Elijah vanishing and Christ alone standing there as the righteousness of God was manifesting (speaking of Christ) fulfilling those things which were witnessed by them (by both the law and the prophets)

Fireinfolding said:

Luke 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.

Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Heres some graves and sepulchres for ya

The body of "this death" eh?

Click to expand...

AMEN!! And "The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live".

JohnRabbit said:

so, you're saying that man already has something in him that can live forever?

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His spirit returns to God who gave it, does it not?

And did not Paul turn people over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh THAT THE SPIRIT might be saved in the day of the Lord?

So this "spirit" has to be more than just "the breath of life" that comes from God , does it not? As even the spirit OF GOD bears witness to the spirit OF MAN that he is a child of God, no?

JohnRabbit said:

i know we put on the mind of Christ after conversion, i.e., baptism and repentance.

but, when do we put on this immortality?

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1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

I dont see a date do you?

Though, I would ask, what 1Cr 15:56 has to do with the context of a literal corpse

1Cr 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Especially in light of...

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

And ofcourse the question, what is the victory? Then after that (ofcourse) followed by the question..."what is faith not of"?

Fireinfolding said:

Mat 17:9 Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

You should be asking Jesus, he said it was a vision, I agree with him. though I understand what the vision is showing, they are speaking of his decease and all that he was to accomplish in Jerusalem and how they (The law representive of Moses) and the prophets (representive of Elijah) in the vision spake concerning Christ, Peter wanted to "separate them" Gods voice spoke saying this is my Son hear ye him speaks to this scripture...

Mark 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Mark 9:5-6 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

Mark 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Mark 9:8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

Which answers in this...

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets

Luke 24:34 These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Thats why they werent to tell any man till he rose from the dead (as the effect of every vision was being fulfilled Jesus Christ) "they speaking of his decease"

1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Not unto themselves did they minister these things but unto us

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

They had to wait to say anything because he is declared the Son of God by the spirit of holiness and by the resurrection of the dead. so showing Moses and Elijah vanishing and Christ alone standing there as the righteousness of God was manifesting (speaking of Christ) fulfilling those things which were witnessed by them (by both the law and the prophets)

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so you agree that it was a vision and that moses and elijah were not really there?

angelmom01 said:

AMEN!! And "The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live".

Jhn 5:25-29 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

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Kool, shows opening the graves here too

Ezek 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

Arent we suppose to know He is the Lord before we physically kick the bucket?