I'm praying for you Todd Bentley....

astounding is the right word Tamara used. I am just shaking my head..

probinson said:

John 9:24-25 (NIV)
A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. "Give glory to God," they said. "We know this man [Jesus] is a sinner." He replied, "Whether he [Jesus] is a sinner or not, I don't know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!"
​

Seems this guy wasn't overly concerned with the Pharisees who claimed that Jesus was not a Christian, and relied pretty heavily on the experience he had of being healed of his blindness.

Interestingly, here was the logic of the healed blind man, which Jesus commended;

John 9:30-33 (NIV)
The man answered, "Now that is remarkable! You don't know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will. Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing."
​

Jesus had some pretty stern words for the Pharisees though;

John 9:39-41 (NIV)
Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind." Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?" Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
​

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I'm sorry Pete, you're going to have to spell this out a little clearer. What exactly does this have to do with my post?

Are you saying that miracles are what matter, and it doesn't matter through who, or how they come about?

Because there's plenty of people who use occultic powers to bring about the supernatural; I'm sure they would love an invitation to your church if it makes no difference to you...


peace,
Simon

probinson said:

I am?

Can you show me the post in this thread where I'm "strongly defending" Todd Bentley?

This thread is indeed "astounding" as was stated earlier. It started with a simple prayer, and was followed up very quickly by accusations, condemnation, and posts of not praying for the guy because there was a long list of other people we need to pray for instead.

Welcome to CF.

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Thanks for the welcome.
Is he of your denomonation,os associated with it in any way,at least by perception,or possibly extremely similar beliefs?

FaultySurplus said:

As for me, I still pray that God will grant him repentence so he will be born again and become a true child of God.

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Amen I agree

Simon Peter said:

I'm sorry Pete, you're going to have to spell this out a little clearer. What exactly does this have to do with my post?

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An awful lot.

A miracle was wrought at the hands of Jesus. A blind man received his sight. And the Pharisees responded, almost verbatim, the way that you did in this thread. "This man is a sinner!"

Simon Peter said:

Are you saying that miracles are what matter, and it doesn't matter through who, or how they come about?

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I am saying that you have dismally failed to present a sound, Biblical case for "demonic healings", a term you used in another thread, that I think you've completely fabricated.

So once again, I'll ask you to provide an example of a healing wrought at the hands of Satan from scripture.

Dash Riprock said:

Is he of your denomonation,os associated with it in any way,at least by perception,or possibly extremely similar beliefs?

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My church and pastor is affiliated with Rhema Bible Church in Tulsa, OK. As far as I know, Todd Bentley has no such affiliation.

Why are you so concerned about whether Todd Bentley has similar beliefs to me? What does that have to do with praying for the man?

probinson said:

An awful lot.

A miracle was wrought at the hands of Jesus. A blind man received his sight. And the Pharisees responded, almost verbatim, the way that you did in this thread. "This man is a sinner!"



I am saying that you have dismally failed to present a sound, Biblical case for "demonic healings", a term you used in another thread, that I think you've completely fabricated.

So once again, I'll ask you to provide an example of a healing wrought at the hands of Satan from scripture.

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Comparing a reaction to Jesus, a perfect man, to a reaction to TB, an adulterer, a man who has been proven to have lied in his books, a man who falsely claimed to have raised + 35 people from the dead (can't prove one) and on and on, is like comparing apples to toads.

"So once again, I'll ask you to provide an example of a healing wrought at the hands of Satan from scripture."
Jesus said, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible." Healing is a miracle. So it's safe to assume Satan will heal and do other miraculous things as well. Miracles that are from God will be accompanied by a true, scriptural gospel message with a call to repentance, and the fruit of the Spirit will be evident in the life of the person who brought the miracle.

9When the wicked one appears, Satan will pretend to work all kinds of miracles, wonders, and signs. 10Lost people will be fooled by his evil deeds. They could be saved, but they will refuse to love the truth and accept it. 11So God will make sure that they are fooled into believing a lie. 12All of them will be punished, because they would rather do evil than believe the truth. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-15)

Steve.Page said:

"So once again, I'll ask you to provide an example of a healing wrought at the hands of Satan from scripture."
Jesus said, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible." Healing is a miracle. So it's safe to assume Satan will heal and do other miraculous things as well. Miracles that are from God will be accompanied by a true, scriptural gospel message with a call to repentance, and the fruit of the Spirit will be evident in the life of the person who brought the miracle.

9When the wicked one appears, Satan will pretend to work all kinds of miracles, wonders, and signs. 10Lost people will be fooled by his evil deeds. They could be saved, but they will refuse to love the truth and accept it. 11So God will make sure that they are fooled into believing a lie. 12All of them will be punished, because they would rather do evil than believe the truth. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-15)

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"It's safe to assume Satan will heal..."

Wow.

I can point you to scripture that demonstrates (false) miracles, (lying) wonders and (pretended) signs wrought at the hands of Satan. I can not, however, point you to a single scripture that even begins to support the idea that "it's safe to assume that Satan will heal". In fact, I might go so far as to say that without scripture to substantiate that belief, it's akin to "believing a lie".

So once again, can anyone show a scripture where Satan healed someone to deceive them?

probinson said:

"It's safe to assume Satan will heal..."

Wow.

I can point you to scripture that demonstrates (false) miracles, (lying) wonders and (pretended) signs wrought at the hands of Satan. I can not, however, point you to a single scripture that even begins to support the idea that "it's safe to assume that Satan will heal". In fact, I might go so far as to say that without scripture to substantiate that belief, it's akin to "believing a lie".

So once again, can anyone show a scripture where Satan healed someone to deceive them?

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Can you point to any scripture where Satan did any sign or miracle in order to decieve?

Jesus did not say there would be false signs and miracles. He said, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible."

You are not proving anything.

probinson said:

My church and pastor is affiliated with Rhema Bible Church in Tulsa, OK. As far as I know, Todd Bentley has no such affiliation.

Why are you so concerned about whether Todd Bentley has similar beliefs to me? What does that have to do with praying for the man?

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So Mr Bentley is not of a very similar denomination,or certainly your belief system,or camp?

Steve.Page said:

Can you point to any scripture where Satan did any sign or miracle in order to decieve?

Jesus did not say there would be false signs and miracles. He said, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible."

You are not proving anything.

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Good citation.

probinson said:

I am saying that you have dismally failed to present a sound, Biblical case for "demonic healings", a term you used in another thread, that I think you've completely fabricated.

So once again, I'll ask you to provide an example of a healing wrought at the hands of Satan from scripture.

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Pete, you're still not making yourself clear.

If your question is directed at something I said on another thread, please respond on that thread.

Or at the very least, quote my entire post, or provide a link to where you say I used the phrase "demonic healings", because I would like to see the context.

And how long ago was this "demonic healings" post? Because I've barely posted here for a couple of weeks.

Thank you,
Simon

Yitzchak said:

The thing that troubles me a lot more than the basic concept that someone could fake or perform false signs is the tendency of some to systematically attack Christianministers and use these comparisons about the work of the devil based upon their judgment that these ministers are false Christians.
Take Joyce Meyer for an example. Some on here attack her as a false prophetess who is not really saved because she is a woman teacher and because she is Charasmatic or fill in the blanks with whatever else they disagree with her about.
Or Benny Hinn , or Mike Bickle , Rick Joyner , etc. This tendency of some to condemn those that they disagree with is very disturbing. Espeacially when it is done in the context of condemning ministries that are ministering to millions of Christians around the world.
I'm wondering if maybe those of you who wish to condemn Todd Bentley and others could compile a comprehensive list of those Christian ministers who you think are not really saved ??
Keith Moore ? Jerry Savelle ? Steve Hill ? John Kilkpatrick ? John and Carol Arnot ? Patricia King ? Bill Johnson ? Mahesh Chavda ?
Is it word of Faith ? or revival in general ? Or Charasmatics ? What is the real beef ?
Because I'm not buying the idea that it is just a zeal for the truth and for the word that is bringing about hundreds of posts condenming one Christian leader after another .

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EXCELLENT post. I absolutely agree, and would only add, that it is NOT our job to condemn, but lets look to see whose job that really is. And it isn't "watchman" doing this nonsense, it is people walking in their flesh, thinking they know more, do better and are better people that are pointing out others faults. Reminds me of "someone"..hmm...let me think...OH yes, the ACCUSER of the BRETHREN.

Yitzchak said:

The thing that troubles me a lot more than the basic concept that someone could fake or perform false signs is the tendency of some to systematically attack Christianministers and use these comparisons about the work of the devil based upon their judgment that these ministers are false Christians.
Take Joyce Meyer for an example. Some on here attack her as a false prophetess who is not really saved because she is a woman teacher and because she is Charasmatic or fill in the blanks with whatever else they disagree with her about.
Or Benny Hinn , or Mike Bickle , Rick Joyner , etc. This tendency of some to condemn those that they disagree with is very disturbing. Espeacially when it is done in the context of condemning ministries that are ministering to millions of Christians around the world.
I'm wondering if maybe those of you who wish to condemn Todd Bentley and others could compile a comprehensive list of those Christian ministers who you think are not really saved ??
Keith Moore ? Jerry Savelle ? Steve Hill ? John Kilkpatrick ? John and Carol Arnot ? Patricia King ? Bill Johnson ? Mahesh Chavda ?
Is it word of Faith ? or revival in general ? Or Charasmatics ? What is the real beef ?
Because I'm not buying the idea that it is just a zeal for the truth and for the word that is bringing about hundreds of posts condenming one Christian leader after another .

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There is a big difference in condemning a person, and Christians judging unscriptural ministries and unholy lifestyles of other Christians, which we are told to do in scripture. I do not recognize some of the names that you mentioned, but many of them set forth new and false doctrines, or they are rehashing old false doctrines. Others are horrendous ambassadors for Christ and do not represent Him as scripture represents Him.

Scripture gives us a pretty clear picture that Jesus was a modest man, with zeal for truth, he did not live a exorbitant lavish lifestyle, he was honest, he did not draw attention to Himself He drew attention to God.He revered God and He was upset when others did not revere God. Jesus was much more than this, as you know, and there were many things that He was not.

Christians are Christ's ambassadors that means that we are to represent Him and His holiness as accurately as we can in speech, behavior, appearance and attitude. Over and over we are commande to imitate God, be pure, be holy, don'be like the world and be righteous.

These people do reach millions, but do they represent the Gospel and Jesus accurately? Sadly the answer is no. Jesus did not live in a palace and did not wear expensive jewelry. He did not abandon his wife and children. He did not do the hokey pokey in the temple and He corrected those who were irreverent in the temple. He did not sell His revelations from God, He had faith God would care for Him. Jesus did not facilitate adulterers and help them in a divorce and then their marriage, he called them to repentance. Jesus did not falsely prophesy or advertise those who did.

I think we need to use the strictest possible standards in understanding who Jesus is and how holy, holy, holy He is and then we will begin to understand where criticism comes from.

Steve.Page said:

Can you point to any scripture where Satan did any sign or miracle in order to decieve?

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Sure.

Steve.Page said:

Jesus did not say there would be false signs and miracles. He said, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible."

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What's your point? You don't think that "false" Christs and "false" prophets will perform "false" signs and "false" miracles? Incidentally, the Amplified Bible says it this way;
The NIV says it like this;
Or if you prefer the good ol' KJV;
So we can see these signs are described as "counterfeit", "lying", and "pretended". IOW, false.

Steve.Page said:

You are not proving anything.

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Au contraire mon frere. The ball is in your court now. I just showed you a Scriptural case for a false sign performed for the purpose of deceit. Now, can you show me a Scriptural example of Satan healing someone for the purpose of deceit?

Yitzchak said:

Because I'm not buying the idea that it is just a zeal for the truth and for the word that is bringing about hundreds of posts condenming one Christian leader after another .

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You've got it. I ain't buying it either.

This is the facade; "We're just contending for Truth." In a word, baloney.

Simon Peter said:

Pete, you're still not making yourself clear.

If your question is directed at something I said on another thread, please respond on that thread.

Or at the very least, quote my entire post, or provide a link to where you say I used the phrase "demonic healings", because I would like to see the context.

And how long ago was this "demonic healings" post? Because I've barely posted here for a couple of weeks.

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The context is really unimportant. The question is simple;

Do you believe there are "demonic healings"?

I do not, because I see nothing in scripture to support such an idea.