What? I am not railing against it! On the contrary, I disagree with how it appears to me that you interpret these kinds of passages.
I'm only looking into what is written, and the testimony of my heart, enlightened by the Holy Spirit. No man can expect anything but this.. Not me, nor you.
Job 34:21-23
For his eyes are upon the ways of man, and he seeth all his goings. There is no darkness, nor shadow of death, where the workers of iniquity may hide themselves. For he will not lay upon man more than right; that he should enter into judgment with God.
Is it too hard for man to cling to his God if he were to admit to God his need?
Luke 18:17
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
There are all kinds of statements about salvation and how one is saved in the NT. Some are in the context of mixed audiences in which an indefinite if-then statement or command/imperative is issued, as we have already discussed. Others are in the context of an explanatory or hortatory message to presumed regenerate believers.
And where are these
salvic horatory messages being delivered to the
regenerate in the Scriptures?
I find none.
You understand by salvic I mean being born again, yes, regenerate, yes, indwelt and being infilled by the Holy Spirit, yes?
If Scripture is brought to your attention regarding this matter, please share.
Also, as we are learned, that God is not contradictory, how well do these verses fare as salvic in regards to the following?:
Luke 6:49
But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
1 Corinthians 3:10-17
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Hebrews 6:1-3
Wherefore leaving the doctrine of the first principles of Christ, let us press on unto perfection;
not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the teaching of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.
Where I disagree is your application of these contextualized instances to non-believers across the board and presuppose that they have an entirely free choice to accept or reject the message based on their own resources.
Where did I say it were based on their own resources?
Acts 17:25
Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing,
seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
But their
God-given resources to be applied on the Witness of the Holy Spirit, Who Testifies to each one individually and corporately;
I am the Light of the world.. The Light shines in the darkness.. He hath Lighted every man coming into the world.. He shall convict the world.. A Lamp unto our path.. A Light to the Gentiles.. A Light for the Nations.. ect, ect..
I really do not see how the details of my personal testimony matter in this discussion. To be honest, my testimony is quite unspectacular in the details. What is spectacular is that He regenerated and saved me, a hopeless sinner, just as he has regenerated and saved other hopeless sinners.
I would like to know where [Scripturally] you are understanding regeneration to come before salvation.
Perhaps I missed it in the flury of responses or am just that dull. Where does Paul expressly cite the blessing-curse passage from Deuteronomy?
Deuteronomy 30:14
But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest
do it.
Romans 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Deuteronomy 30:15
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
Romans 10:9
That
if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Yes, but as I said before, the "repent and believe" statement is an imperative and does not presuppose any ability or inability. It states what ought to be done and is a declarative statement of God's will.
Deuteronomy 30:11-14
For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
Romans 10:8-13
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
That being said, I do not think that God attempting to scare unrepentant sinners into believing leads to their conversion.
2 Corinthians 5:11
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
This only leads to more self-righteous indignation and kicking against the goads on the part of the sinner.
Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
Isaiah 44:22
I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
Acts 13:38-39
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Mark 6:12
And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
Rather, it is a work of his Holy Spirit, which regenerates and leads them into a right relationship with him that saves.
Honestly, what does God know of repentance beside the condition of a man's heart? Has He ever needed a change of heart? Has He ever committed sin? Has He ever acted in anything but Love?
How then, can you say that repentance is 'given' of God when it's not in Him to give?
Does God call us to repentance? Yes, He does. But He does not
need to repent, WE DO! Whatever belongs to Christ is shared with us through the Person of the Holy Spirit.. Did Christ ever
need to repent? Does He have it to give, therefore? Does repentance belong to Christ now?
Faith, I can
conceed, as the gift of God following repentance (not that I agree, but so that we're on the same page), but God is not a man that He should repent, it is not in Him to give. Should we expect God to repent on our behalf, or should we conceed He is
calling us to such through the work of Christ on the cross?
Is this a typo? It ought to be done.
If we ought to believe in God, then we were created for it, therefore it ought to be natural for us;
Mathew 11:30
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are
not grievous.
This is what man was created for.
Glorifying the Lord in our bodies, yes, AMEN!
However, sin and ultimately death disconnected this relationship.
Sin has had the tendancy to do that, when one sins.
Yet;
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that
God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
There is no more separation but for unbelief, the only unforgivable sin.
John 16:13-15
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Mathew 12:28,31-32
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
..Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Now man must be regenerated and conformed to the image of Christ for it to be restored.
I agree with this half-truth.
I construed it a 'half-truth' for we are all created in the image of God, which becomes marred, and we become sinners WHEN we sin.
Yes, ideally this would occur. But it does not happen this way in a fallen world.
Where is this 'fallen world' syndrome reflected in the Scriptures?
2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels,
that the excellency of the power may be of God, and
not of us.
2 Corinthians 12:9-10
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee:
for my strength is made perfect in
weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
1 Corinthians 2:3-5
And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
That your faith should
not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1 Corinthians 9:10
Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Romans 8:18-25
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Hebrews 10:36-38
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might
receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Christians are not immune to sin but have the remedy against it. What are you suggesting, though?
Jesus is our ideal, and He condemned sin in the flesh while a denizen of this world by reliance on the Spirit of God. He shared in our weakness, being tempted. And He can, and WILL, do the same [save us from our sins] within us as we abide in His Love.
Hebrews 3:18
Jesus Christ
the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Mathew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name
JESUS: for he
shall save his people from their sins.
Romans 10:6-7
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Deuteronomy 30:12-13
It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
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Philippians 3:12,16;2 Timothy 4:7;Philippians 3:15
