Baptists 400 year birthday?

98cwitr · Oct 25, 2009

Our church "celebrated" this today...anyone else's church doing the same?

Vince53 · Oct 25, 2009

I'm afraid that Baptists go back to John the Baptist, the first Baptist evangelist. John Smyth, who got saved in a Baptist church in Holland, started a Baptist church in England and named it "Baptist," but he did not invent the doctrines.

MatthewDiscipleofGod · Oct 25, 2009

I don't know anyone in our church that would say the Baptist group started 400 years ago.

sealacamp · Oct 26, 2009

Vince53 said:
I'm afraid that Baptists go back to John the Baptist, the first Baptist evangelist. John Smyth, who got saved in a Baptist church in Holland, started a Baptist church in England and named it "Baptist," but he did not invent the doctrines.

Actually baptism predates John and is an outward sign of an inward condition, namely repentance.

Sealacamp

JacobHall86 · Oct 26, 2009

For those of us who don't buy into the Landmarkist kool-aid, we would say that this year does mark the 400th anniversary of the first Baptist church.

Anabaptist does not equal Baptist. Influence does not equal lineage.

Baptists are from the line of the English Separatists.

Vince53 · Oct 26, 2009

sealacamp said:
Actually baptism predates John and is an outward sign of an inward condition, namely repentance.

Sealacamp

Right you are. And anyone who studies the PREACHING of John the Baptist can see that he did not believe in "easy believism."

mlqurgw · Oct 26, 2009

JacobHall86 said:
For those of us who don't buy into the Landmarkist kool-aid, we would say that this year does mark the 400th anniversary of the first Baptist church.

Anabaptist does not equal Baptist. Influence does not equal lineage.

Baptists are from the line of the English Separatists.

Actually the spiritual kinship view, which I hold, is different than the chain-link view held by Landmarkists and the Trail of Blood. I used to have a link to the three views of Baptist history but I lost it when I had to reformat my hard drive.

PrincetonGuy · Oct 27, 2009

98cwitr said:
Our church "celebrated" this today...anyone else's church doing the same?

From my perspective, the first Baptist church was organized in England late in 1611 or early in 1612 when about ten souls lead by Thomas Helwys returned from Holland where they had been for a few years due to the persecution of the Separatists by the Church of England. This first congregation was Arminian in its theology. The first Calvinistic Baptist church was organized in about 1638 under the pastorate of Henry Jessey, a Cambridge graduate, their antecedents being the nearly Baptist congregation organized in 1616 in London under the leadership of Henry Jacob.

The only birthday that my church celebrates is the birthday of our Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus.

HantsUK · Oct 28, 2009

Tiverton Baptist Church (Devon, England), my home church, celebrated their 400th anniversary two years ago. Officially, the church was founded in 1607. But it is not possible to know for certain the actual start date, but most probably sometime around the turn of the 16th/17th centuries.

PrincetonGuy · Oct 28, 2009

HantsUK said:
Tiverton Baptist Church (Devon, England), my home church, celebrated their 400th anniversary two years ago. Officially, the church was founded in 1607. But it is not possible to know for certain the actual start date, but most probably sometime around the turn of the 16th/17th centuries.

Thank you for sharing with us! I would be very interested in learning the early history of your church, especially the early names of it and the beliefs that it taught.

Tonks · Oct 28, 2009

Happy Birthday...whenever the date happens to be.

Vince53 · Oct 29, 2009

There is some question over whether Baptist began with the preaching of John the Baptist or at Pentecost, but we were around long before the Protestants got here.

mlqurgw · Oct 29, 2009

Vince53 said:
There is some question over whether Baptist began with the preaching of John the Baptist or at Pentecost, but we were around long before the Protestants got here.

You seem to be very good at making unsubstantiated claims but not very good at backing them up. While I do hold to the spiritual kinship view of Baptist history I can back it up if anyone wishes for me to. Care to back up your claims here and in other threads?

JacobHall86 · Oct 29, 2009

Vince53 said:
There is some question over whether Baptist began with the preaching of John the Baptist or at Pentecost, but we were around long before the Protestants got here.

Please quote Graves. Please.

We come from the English Separatists. The only basis for Landmarkism is a hatred for the RCC.

Its bad history and even WORSE theology, because many times the line is traced through heretical groups.

Tzaousios · Oct 29, 2009

Vince53 said:
There is some question over whether Baptist began with the preaching of John the Baptist or at Pentecost, but we were around long before the Protestants got here.

Interesting. What were the "Baptists" known as before the appearance of what is known as Protestantism?

mlqurgw · Oct 29, 2009

Tzaousios said:
Interesting. What were the "Baptists" known as before the appearance of what is known as Protestantism?

They went by many names such as Anabaptists, Waldensians, Petrobrusians, Henricans, etc. The spiritual kinship to them is seen in the Baptist Distinctives being held among them. The "Trail of Blood" view of Baptist succession is false.

Vince53 · Oct 29, 2009

When I took church history in college, they had a textbook written by a Presbyterian. The poor guy had fits trying to explain away the existence of Baptists all the way back to John the Baptist.

The author admitted that John Smyth did not "found" the Baptists, and then argues that Baptists ought to be satisfied with great Baptist preachers before the Reformation, and leave it at that.

As far as documentation, if you'll check the Book of Acts, you will see that the New Testament Christians were Baptists.

Vince53 · Oct 29, 2009

My friend Tzaousios does bring up an interesting question: Since "Baptist" is only a title that will come and go, what IS a Baptist?

I have always understood a Baptist to be a fundamentalist (The Deity of Christ and His virgin birth; the total innerrancy of Scripture; His literal, physical resurrection from the dead; His literal, visible Second Coming; and salvation by faith alone) who also believes in baptism by immersion after a person has accepted Christ.

The term "baptist" with a small "b" is often used for the above definition, while a capital "B" is used for people who call themselves by that title.

JohnDB · Oct 30, 2009

It is a darn shame that the denomination is about to disapear too.

Between the calvinists and the arminians and the Charismatics the denomination is all but destroyed now. Lifeway has been absolutely no help at all...all the schlock that they seem to want to sell and promote does nothing to keep the faith.

Oh well...

But what I have noticed is that there does seem to be a flocking to conservative churchs these days...anytime Calvinistic, Arminian, or Charismatic wings seem to pop up around a church and these little political groups get a foothold the congregation flees...and congregates to whatever conservative church they can find that holds to none of these theologies. And in those locations things go smoothly for a while...till one of the theologians comes along and starts teaching their favorite theology (arminian, charismatic, or calvin) and then things go pretty quickly after that...

oh well...change is the only constant.

JacobHall86 · Oct 30, 2009

JohnDB said:
It is a darn shame that the denomination is about to disapear too.

Between the calvinists and the arminians and the Charismatics the denomination is all but destroyed now. Lifeway has been absolutely no help at all...all the schlock that they seem to want to sell and promote does nothing to keep the faith.

Oh well...

But what I have noticed is that there does seem to be a flocking to conservative churchs these days...anytime Calvinistic, Arminian, or Charismatic wings seem to pop up around a church and these little political groups get a foothold the congregation flees...and congregates to whatever conservative church they can find that holds to none of these theologies. And in those locations things go smoothly for a while...till one of the theologians comes along and starts teaching their favorite theology (arminian, charismatic, or calvin) and then things go pretty quickly after that...

oh well...change is the only constant.

Churches that are atheological are worthless.

They train people in shallowness and serve no purpose. As a five point Calvinist I would rather see a church teach arminianism instead of no theology at all. Your view of theology being what kills churches is ridiculous. Having no theology and allowing non-christians to pose as members kills a church. Its not a product for consumers to buy.

Baptists 400 year birthday?

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